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A question about the epicanthic fold


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#1 TheSecret

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 12:47 AM

Many Asian people have this fold under their eye, giving them a distinctive look. Interestingly, (AFAIK), this fold only exists in people who ethnically come from the Asian geographic region. What is it about this side of the world, that would cause people to develop this fold near their eyes? Even many animals found in the Asia region have this fold, the most famous example probably being siamese cats. Would Australians eventually evolve to have this fold as well, if we were to remain on this content for a long enough period of time? The most popular theory for the fold is that it helps to protect against UV radiation, something Australia is more prone to than most other regions. Assuming that it is possible, and how it works etc, I would guess that the increasing mixing of races would cancel that out before it had a chance to happen...

Edited by TheSecret, 14 August 2009 - 12:48 AM.

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#2 plebsmacker

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 12:56 AM

Define a long enough period of time.
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#3 Lazzarus2nd

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 02:28 AM

WTF? New Zealanders have darker skin, Africans have Black skin, Japanese are shorter than the norm, the brits dont shower. Every race has a distinction based on their ancestry, why bother analysing it? Instead worry your cranium about where to get the next renewable enrgy source from. Profit.
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#4 TheSecret

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 05:07 AM

Lazzarus, I think you may have missed the point of what I was asking :| I'm curious why the fold is only present in humans from that particular reigion, and if Australians would eventually adapt to have a similar fold... On the other hand, native NZ'ers definitly don't, so we could just be too far south maybe...
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#5 Director

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 06:37 AM

I'm curious why the fold is only present in humans from that particular reigion, and if Australians would eventually adapt to have a similar fold...


Umm, it's called 'genetics' dude and if the aussie population interbreeds with the asian population enough the yeah it'd probably become a feature.

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#6 1shot1kill

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:14 AM

The most popular theory for the fold is that it helps to protect against UV radiation, something Australia is more prone to than most other regions.


If that's the case, why don't Kooris have it?
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#7 Fillerbunny

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:40 AM

From memory it was originally to protect the eyes against the large sand and dust storms of the region.

#8 Elfarch

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 07:44 AM

From memory it was originally to protect the eyes against the large sand and dust storms of the region.


Yep, heard that one. Wonder why Berbers and Bedouin don't have em?
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#9 Cybes

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 08:50 AM

According to Wikipedia:

In children

All humans initially develop epicanthic folds in the womb. Some children lose them by birth, but epicanthic folds may also be seen in young children of any ethnicity before the bridge of the nose begins to elevate.


I don't know why it should be, but I reckon you'll find a pretty good correlation between nasal bridge depth and ethnicity. ie: Asians have a pretty flat nasal bridge, and whiteys don't.

Also, if the thing were present due to UV, glare, or sandstorms, wouldn't you expect to find it amongst Australian aboriginal populations?

Edited by Cybes, 14 August 2009 - 08:52 AM.

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#10 Director

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:02 AM

In children

All humans initially develop epicanthic folds in the womb. Some children lose them by birth, but epicanthic folds may also be seen in young children of any ethnicity before the bridge of the nose begins to elevate.


So is it a simply a genetic malfunction that doesn't allow that to happen?

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#11 thesorehead

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:16 AM

In children

All humans initially develop epicanthic folds in the womb. Some children lose them by birth, but epicanthic folds may also be seen in young children of any ethnicity before the bridge of the nose begins to elevate.


So is it a simply a genetic malfunction that doesn't allow that to happen?

Cool!

Genetic malfunctions that don't adversely affect survival = diversity. I'd think it'd have to be more than pure mutation though - it's not as though the whole Asian continent was populated from one seed family. Or maybe it was ... but it seems unlikely.
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#12 Kimmo

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:20 AM

I seem to recall it's from the Mongols, who supposedly developed it as an adaptation to protect against snowblindness.

#13 Taranthor

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:21 AM

In children

All humans initially develop epicanthic folds in the womb. Some children lose them by birth, but epicanthic folds may also be seen in young children of any ethnicity before the bridge of the nose begins to elevate.


So is it a simply a genetic malfunction that doesn't allow that to happen?

Cool!

Genetic malfunctions that don't adversely affect survival = diversity. I'd think it'd have to be more than pure mutation though - it's not as though the whole Asian continent was populated from one seed family. Or maybe it was ... but it seems unlikely.



The human race has ensured that pretty much no genetic malfunction affects survival anymore.

Stupid humans keeping alive people that shouldn't be alive.

#14 ArcaneMagik

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:30 AM

Because God decided to make different people look different. Variety and all that stuff.
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#15 Nich...

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 09:32 AM

That really reads like you don't know how genetics/evolution works, TS : \

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#16 Kimmo

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 11:36 AM

Are Eskimos/Inuits descended from Mongols, or did they develop the eye thing independently?

#17 bu14-1

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 11:48 AM

The most popular theory for the fold is that it helps to protect against UV radiation, something Australia is more prone to than most other regions.


If that's the case, why don't Kooris have it?

That's what I was thinking.


Because God decided to make different people look different. Variety and all that stuff.

Well I think that pretty much according to the Bible we all came from two people, so it wouldn't be like God spontaneously made a heap of different races at the beginning.
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#18 Nich...

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 11:51 AM

I'm not sure if the Bible is going to be seen as an authoritative source by many in this instance.

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#19 Elfarch

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 11:57 AM

Are Eskimos/Inuits descended from Mongols, or did they develop the eye thing independently?


Supposedly they did migrate from asia. But then so did all the north american indians. Oops, native north americans as they say now. Even though they are long term immigrants that killed off or drove other peoples (that came earlier) south.
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#20 DEVERE

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Posted 14 August 2009 - 12:10 PM

Are Eskimos/Inuits descended from Mongols, or did they develop the eye thing independently?



According to many sources I have been skimming through, it appeared in the Eskinos/Inuits due to their living in a harsh icy climate, and was there to protect against the glare from the snow and ice, along with the Mongols who developed it for the same reason.

The Inuits seem to have originated somewhere along the line from the Mongols, but the race separated when some (now Inuits) crossed the Beringian Strait and moved into the Northern Americas. The fold itself seems to have been around long before the last ice age.

The capoid peoples in Africa (who seem to have about 85% Asian DNA) also have the same fold, and this seems to be due to their harsh windy climate and offers some protection from sand storms and bright sunlight... but again, due to their DNA, could be just genetics.

I also found this:

Because of the main staple in the Asian diet. Rice is known as fan, or foundation, of the chinese diet.

Rice, by tself is missing essential amino acids neccesary for proper occullar muscle formation.

Mexicans (central americans) experienced a similar genetic affliction due to their diet consisting mainly of corn.

The disease is known as polagra. When you mix corn and rice, or rice and beans, or corn and beans (any combo, thereof), you complete the amino chain and make a protein...

The effect of polagra has wound itself into the evolutionary chain for so long that the common, modern diet has little effect of revering the occular muscle contraction.


Are Eskimos/Inuits descended from Mongols, or did they develop the eye thing independently?


Supposedly they did migrate from asia. But then so did all the north american indians. Oops, native north americans as they say now. Even though they are long term immigrants that killed off or drove other peoples (that came earlier) south.


And there we have another question... why don't ALL native amerindians have the fold.... due to selective breeding maybe?

Edited by DEVERE, 14 August 2009 - 12:12 PM.

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