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#1 hulkster

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:10 PM

Amnesty for banned atomicians. Good or bad for the forums? I think a good idea. Yep half of those banned shit me to tears but I'm all for letting them all back if it helps these forums. What do others think?
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#2 A Hitman

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:17 PM

I think it's too late for most, they prob wont come back. In future they really should ban fewer people though, seems to be happening quite often lately.
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#3 Chaos.Lady

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:49 PM

Once a thread is closed, trying again rarely works. There is a reason this was locked. It was going in circles, as well as devolving into a discussion of a banned member. Also, I think Hawkeye's answer in the previous thread was pretty clear.
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#4 .:Cyb3rGlitch:.

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:37 PM

I think it's too late for most, they prob wont come back.
In future they really should ban fewer people though, seems to be happening quite often lately.

We only ban people if they are repeat offenders, or they broke one of the major rules. Every Atomican can plead their case to David after the fact. If people can't be arsed contacting David, we can't be arsed letting them back in.

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#5 hulkster

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 06:38 PM

Why unlock the Fucken thing now? Seriously? And for those of you late on the scene chaos locked this after one post because...well fucked if I know

Edited by hulkster, 14 March 2012 - 06:40 PM.

<strong class='bbc'>Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and<br /><br />oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital<br /><br />ingredient in beer.</strong>

#6 The Tick

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:01 PM

I wouldn't back another amnesty. I have seen it abused way too much. I believe that each person should. if they want back in, talk to Dave about their own unique position in wanting to return and how they would do it differently.

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#7 Cummings

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:23 PM

No amnesty. Most were banned for a good reason, and the forums do not need them back. Those unlucky to be banned on questionable or 'fringe' decisions have a good chance of getting back in by calmly and rationally pleading their case through the appropriate channels.
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#8 Gharphield

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:34 AM

Relax Hulks, people make mistakes and bad judgement calls all the time. Things can be undone. I wouldn't personally back another amnesty, if people are worried about traffic and content, etc then the answer doesn't lie in letting everyone back in that were banned for good reason, the answer lies in attracting new users and creating a positive community for them that encourages them to stay and keep posting. Last time I checked new users were coming in droves and they definitely aren't staying.
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#9 PointZeroOne

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:08 PM

If people are banned and want back in. They can email David, I did, it wasn't that hard to write an email to explain and then the powers that be thinking about it an unban.

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#10 @~thehung

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

i'd prefer a laissez faire moderating style that would naturally lead to less discipline all round. under such a system i'd suspect a large chunk of those currently banned would be still here...and i'd much prefer that. however, i do feel that an arbitrary amnesty is unconscionable as it would make a complete mockery of the whole necessity of discipline. BUT THEN AGAIN, i'd like to suggest that — starting from now — longer bans become an option. how about 6 months in the sin bin? i may be wrong, but my impression is that 1/2 or full year bans have never been utilised(?). why not slap those on 99% of serious transgressors, and reserve life long bans for, ya know, the real child murderers among us?

Edited by @~thehung, 15 March 2012 - 03:38 PM.

no pung intended

#11 hawkeye

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:46 PM

Well, the thing that people forget is that, by and large, real longterm bans are relatively rare. In most cases, there's a ban, the user contacts us, and they take a break. That's been SOP since I started.
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#12 TinBane

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:52 PM

thehung: In many cases "bans" amount to undefined suspension. Members can contact David, and ask to be let back in. That said, just as a general rule, if you want to act like the entire thing was unfair, a miscarriage of justice, and unconscionable then odds are you aren't going to be let back in on the back of that. The mod team loves giving people a second chance (and in some cases, a third and a fourth) and there are many users who are still active today who have been banned more than once. The difference is, they presumably either eventually could see where the mod team/community was coming from, or could at least fake a reasonably sincere facsimile of that and then keep their nose clean afterwards.
Romans 10:3 absit iniuria verbis

#13 @~thehung

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:27 PM

i can appreciate that guys, but its not the same is it?

my understanding of suspensions is that they are typically short and non-negotiable. theres no need to email David over a one or two week suspension.

i just think there may be an under explored middle ground here.

in terms of easing administrative burden, and on the visibility of justice being done.

but also because of the effects on a forum populace who can recognise a predictably finite period of time before their serial transgressor friends will probably be back. if it doesnt feel like 'forever', to those who remain, they are less likely to think all is lost and jump ship in sympathy. we are less likely to further erode some of the synergy that variously relies not so much on the people who keep acting like douches, but those around them who can forgive them their lamentable foibles.
no pung intended

#14 TinBane

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:49 PM

We've commuted bans to a three month suspension before. I guess the point is we want to see some semblance of personal responsability in their email, rather than evasion and hubris. Otherwise whats the point.
Romans 10:3 absit iniuria verbis

#15 Cybes

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:02 PM

I'm kinda with @~thehung on this one. I've always wondered why the penalty tiers here amount to 'wrist smack' or 'death penalty'. Fair enough, in this case you can take your case to Charon and beg for a reprieve, but it's still a bit more final than feels warranted.

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#16 @~thehung

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:13 PM

okay TB, but a slightly different model could potentially be less dependent on demonstrations of contrition whilst functioning better for the common good. as long as punishments are seen to proportionally fit crimes.

someone is a complete arse, gets a hefty suspension, they are automatically let back in after 3 or 6 months and perhaps quickly land themselves 1 year. boo hoo. over time, the burden of any particular bad apple on the mods and the community at large remains tiny.

result: less overall complication borne of pride and ego and the need for tail-between-the-leg (and/or disingenuous) apologies, and potentially, less nitpicking over decisions from all quarters. there would also be ample latitude for treating any person's suspension as a "non-parole period" on a case by case basis, for those circumstances where contrition is emphatically deemed a pre-requisite for that particular person's hopes of re-admission.

i am thinking of the effect on the community at large. please consider things from that point of view. many of us have a core group of favourites who invigorate the place in one way or another. when one or more of these favourites are banned, they are ostensibly dead. as in, never coming back, no light at the end of the tunnel, dead. in general, people have no way of knowing how close or how far the dead are away from getting back into David Lich-King Hollingworth's good graces (:P), nor how close or far away they are from ever trying. for all intents and purposes a part of their own rationale for staying here dies.

in closing, i think truth in sentencing reform (including the possibility of retroactive credit for time served) would do more for the forums than a second green room ever could.
no pung intended

#17 MrFriendly

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:32 PM

Action and reaction. If people can't handle the consequences of their shitness, take responsibility, or swallow their pride to come back. Too. Fucking. Bad.
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#18 jdm_com_au

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:25 PM

Like it or not, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Take road rules for example. In theory, I can get booked for doing 61 KPH in a 60 KPH zone. My view is there should be a 10% tolerance, as speedometers only need to be accurate within 10% to be roadworthy. But if I get pinged, I either wear it or challenge it. Just remember kiddies, there's plenty of other sandboxes on the internet to play in.

#19 Cummings

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:56 PM

With speeding, the more you go over, the more severe your punishment. As low as a warning, to as high as a dangerous driving charge. This occurs in all areas of our justice system. A judge can opt to record no conviction, apply a suspended sentence / community based order or apply any prison time up to the maximum for that crime. The line is very, very blurred because it's the only rational response to the varying levels of severity associated with any one crime. I'd like to see more of this around the forums, and am glad I am not the only one noticing the lack of it.
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#20 meowkitty

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:36 AM

Like it or not, the line has to be drawn somewhere. Take road rules for example. In theory, I can get booked for doing 61 KPH in a 60 KPH zone. My view is there should be a 10% tolerance, as speedometers only need to be accurate within 10% to be roadworthy. But if I get pinged, I either wear it or challenge it.

Just remember kiddies, there's plenty of other sandboxes on the internet to play in.


+0% to -10%. your speedo can not read higher than the speed you are actualy doing unless it is faulty or you have changed some aspect of your car to make the reading not as the manufacturer intended. like wheels and tyres of different diametre to OEM. the ADR got updated.

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