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NBN - Is it too expensive?


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#21 Mac Dude

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:15 AM

Yeah, you're right... it is a want.

I want to be more productive, so that i can do more work, get paid more for the work i do, and grow our economy.


Or is that a bad thing? I don't understand.


What percentage of people who get the NBN will grow the economy because they now have 100Mbps?

I went from 32Mbps to 100Mbps and my productivity didn't change. The NBN will move me from 100Mbps to 100Mbps. I wonder if that will impact on my productivity?

;)
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#22 Director

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 08:17 AM

It's like I keep saying, you can't piss away 30Bn a year on interest payments AND invest the same amount in long term infrastructure, it's one or the other and ATM usury is king. Just making the comparison is all.

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#23 aliali

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:02 AM

I went from 32Mbps to 100Mbps and my productivity didn't change. The NBN will move me from 100Mbps to 100Mbps. I wonder if that will impact on my productivity?

;)

Telstra cable? Then it is up to 100Mbit and can vary wildly depending on the number of users on your cable node and how many people Telstra are willing to sign up in your area.
You are also one of the lucky ~20% who can get cable, what about the rest of us?
Also remember that with FTTH you have the potential of access to streaming/IP TV solutions other than Foxtel, which is one reason that old cunt Rupert has such a hard on for removing the ALP and their NBN.

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#24 SquallStrife

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:07 AM

I went from 32Mbps to 100Mbps and my productivity didn't change. The NBN will move me from 100Mbps to 100Mbps. I wonder if that will impact on my productivity?


If you upload anything, then NBN will move you from 2Mbps to 40Mbps.

Which may or may not impact you personally, but it's a big point of difference.
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#25 Mac Dude

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:09 AM

I went from 32Mbps to 100Mbps and my productivity didn't change. The NBN will move me from 100Mbps to 100Mbps. I wonder if that will impact on my productivity?

;)

Telstra cable? Then it is up to 100Mbit and can vary wildly depending on the number of users on your cable node and how many people Telstra are willing to sign up in your area.
You are also one of the lucky ~20% who can get cable, what about the rest of us?
Also remember that with FTTH you have the potential of access to streaming/IP TV solutions other than Foxtel, which is one reason that old cunt Rupert has such a hard on for removing the ALP and their NBN.


my point being, not everybody needs FTTH but everyone will be getting it. It's the want versus need discussion. Personally I don't like either solution, but IMO the Labor NBN is a better bad solution to the Liberal NBN :)

As for the variation in speed, when I test it it's always been above 90 when there haven't been outages.

Posted Image

Edited by Mac Dude, 07 August 2013 - 09:10 AM.

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#26 aliali

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 09:46 AM

my point being, not everybody needs FTTH but everyone will be getting it. It's the want versus need discussion. Personally I don't like either solution, but IMO the Labor NBN is a better bad solution to the Liberal NBN :)

As for the variation in speed, when I test it it's always been above 90 when there haven't been outages.

Posted Image

However rolling it out to only those who need or want it would become prohibitively expensive, just look at the current cost of Fibre on Demand to businesses.
You are also looking at the NBN as a purely internet access product. It is not. It is a basic network on which other products can run.
It's like not everyone needs that 4 or 6 lane freeway going in to the city centre either, but it still gets built because there is a need for it in general.

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#27 Mac Dude

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:08 AM

However rolling it out to only those who need or want it would become prohibitively expensive, just look at the current cost of Fibre on Demand to businesses.
You are also looking at the NBN as a purely internet access product. It is not. It is a basic network on which other products can run.
It's like not everyone needs that 4 or 6 lane freeway going in to the city centre either, but it still gets built because there is a need for it in general.


I understand that it's dumb to roll out FTTH for every 5th house because that's how many people need uberfast broadband. Having said that, we have had fibre past our street for a number of years and it will still be 3-4 years before we get access :) As for the NBN being much more than just the internet, I've spent a reasonable amount of time in places like South Korea where broadband penetration and speed are around the highest in the world, so I get that if we do the same we can also have the most profitable gamers on the planet! :)
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#28 chrisg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 10:20 AM

I used to be on cable, it was great, still delivers my Foxtel, but it did suffer not infrequent outages that were almost always related to water in the pits nearby. The fact is that the co-ax is still copper, still prone to water damage and like all copper degrades much quicker than glass. It's also worth mentioning that the cable itself is far more expensive than fibre optics. I think you are very lucky in your cable connection speeds Mac. My street is one of the few in my area that has cable, as more and more people in the street became aware that they could get their internet over the cable so my performance, whilst still impressive at the time, degraded. An all glass network is not perfect, very few things are, a hybrid fibre and copper network is significantly less perfect. One of the nice things about GPON is less active components in the path, less active, less failures. Cheers
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#29 Cybes

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:03 PM

Posted Image

Nominally, that's an 8Mb line. And today's a good day - it gets much, much worse.

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#30 Mac Dude

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:35 PM

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Nominally, that's an 8Mb line. And today's a good day - it gets much, much worse.


You're using one of these, right?

Posted Image
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#31 Guest_xyzzy frobozz_*

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 12:43 PM

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First 300 baud modem we had was like that.

Then we upgraded to a 1200 baud that handled the connection itself (no handset).

Oh the speed!

#32 Director

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:41 PM

My innernet slows down when all the neighbourhood kiddies get home from school and start downloading pRon........

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#33 chrisg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:44 PM

:) I think acoustic couplers may finally have disappeared from the market but long after I thought they had I had a customer with a very specific need for them, before internet in hotel rooms was common. I was rather astonished to find there were some, for then, amazingly fast offerings and we sold about eighty of them. One of those was my first domestic connection - some service that no longer exists, I think it was 1200/75 and I could pay my 'phone bill on it ;) I don't really recall what else it ever did but it hung off of a C-64 if that is any indication. It's an indication of just how far we have pushed the copper - comes a time when pushing shit up hill is wasted effort :) Cheers
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#34 Guest_xyzzy frobozz_*

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:54 PM

I don't really recall what else it ever did but it hung off of a C-64 if that is any indication.


Bulletin Boards! The dial up BBS! You could download pirated Microbee games off some of them. Slowly.

#35 chrisg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 02:57 PM

:) Oh shit, you are right :) "The Well." ;) Cheers
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#36 Cybes

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 04:52 PM

Posted Image

Nominally, that's an 8Mb line. And today's a good day - it gets much, much worse.


You're using one of these, right?

[acoustic coupler]

Oh no - at least then there'd be an excuse. It's several years old now, but there's an ADSL2+-compliant 4-port Zyxel switch between me and the 'phone line. Kinda wasted since the Telstra hardware serving this place won't handle anything above ADSL (1, no +).

If I lived less than a kilometre away in any direction, I'd be in an are having new cables laid or planned within a year. Where I am, though, is not even marked on the NBN planning map - which goes out to 3 years.

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#37 .:Cyb3rGlitch:.

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 05:42 PM

Media is moving away from discs and free-to-air to on-demand online streaming. 4K resolution video on a copper network as bad as ours simply won't happen. 100Mbps may sound great now, but split that between multiple people per property, and factor in the rapid increase in online media consumption, and that isn't so large anymore. Guarantee a baseline network speed and streaming services will become more feasible. The fact that people sit in front of TVs and watch what they're told to is insane in a world full of higher quality on-demand media.

Fibre is also more reliable and is not susceptible to flooded pits like copper is. The amount of times I've had to put off my research work because my Internet suddenly stops working is utter bullshit. Even when my connection is at its best the upload speeds are dismal. That means I can't backup my system offsite as often as I should be, even after moving to 100Mbps cable recently (uploads are 2.5Mbps).

Fast and reliable Internet should be a no brainer in any country, let alone a first world one. Let's not pretend we know what the future holds, and that we only need X amount of bandwidth. Build it and they will come. Even better, we build it, and then reap the benefits globally.

Edited by .:Cyb3rGlitch:., 07 August 2013 - 05:43 PM.

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#38 Mac Dude

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:09 PM

I'm glad that any price for faster 4K porn is ok then...
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#39 .:Cyb3rGlitch:.

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:11 PM

I'm glad that any price for faster 4K porn is ok then...


What you do with your connection is your business. This is about having a reliable nationwide network for any purpose, whether its entertainment or research.

"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." - Carl Sagan
"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it." - Mark Twain
 
An open mind is willing to consider new ideas, while provisionally accepting those backed by empirical evidence, and provisionally rejecting those without.


#40 chrisg

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Posted 07 August 2013 - 06:16 PM

:)We are just used to it cyber, and so we should be actually, but when I was sort of your age and doing somewhat what you are doing although I'm no coder, more theory, my research was at the library and my backup was pencil and paper :) (Probably no more secure really, lost a notebook once somewhere in Waterloo Station and had to rely on memory for the exam next day :) There are caveats: I got a good night's sleep because I had no notes to cram on Memory worked, still passed :) Cheers
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