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#21 Master_Scythe

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:04 AM

including software, aesthetics, battery life for portables, peripherals, customer service, etc


I'll concede to 50% of those.

(lose) Software, 5 years ago, for sure. Nowadays I feel a lot of Open Source stuff has knocked apples range on its head.
Garage band falls to its knees in front of LMMS ()
My mates a film student\part time Director and tells me FinalCut is quite quickly dying to Adobe (for the 3rd time? the balance shifts, i'm sure it'll swing back, lol)
Office suites, well Open source rules there. I've used Mac's suite, and Office, and they both fail next to LibreOffice, slow, clunky, and overly 'feature rich' for an office suite.
The list can go on and on, software I'm going to disagree with; they're also front-end unconfigurable a lot of the time (re: 'Mail').

(win) Aesthetics? yep, OK. They're pretty. The trade off is the unibody 'no fix' design, which makes me uncomfortable, but its how they run. They can have Aesthetics. (but google some of the macbook clones from HP and the like.... they're really not alone)

(win) battery life for portables; yeah. Its not bad. No user changable battery, but they can have a tick here too.

(draw) Peripherals... quality or aesthetics?
As someone who uses purely Mac peripherals on his windows systems, they just don't take a beating well, but they're pretty. You also pay a HUGE premium on these, and that's not deniable. When I can buy the same wireless keyboard, from china, for $8, as I can here for $99; thats price gouging.
And yes, I own both, and yes, they're identical. So, yah, they're nice to use, but they dont last, and they're taxed to HELL.

(win) Customer service, without a doubt. For 99% of the population, fucking amazing. PERSONALLY I hate the fact that their staff are trained in the KISS methodology, because if I have even a SLIGHTLY technical question, they don't know. But not everyones a geek. So that's a win.


The list can go all day. As I said, I'm able to recognize where their place is. I just think its a lot less widespread than people imply and the aesthetics is what won them at the beginning, but that's society. Looking at their profit margins for last year, Yeah, I'd say they can afford to lower the 'Apple tax' even if its already low.


Re your hackintosh experience. I don't disagree, as I said, its like installing linux. You don't need clone hardware, but you DO need hardware on the 'supported list'. My point was that if pumpjockey02 was waiting for a new mac to be able to GAME on it, I'd have honestly considered the h'tosh a better choice.
I already said though, outside a geek forum where mods and hacking were the focus for most of its life, I wouldn't suggest it, so don't stress :)

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#22 Mr.Twinkie

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:14 AM

Could anybody tell me whether it's worth getting the i7 instead of the i5 dual core for the new haswell macbook? I'll just enjoy light video editing and gaming with the macbook along with the office word processing and browsing needs. Goddamn these upgrade prices are ridiculous. I'll definitely get the 8gb ram option. I would LOVE more storage than 128gb but FRIGGIN $$$$$$. I'm not willing to spend any more than 2000 on this machine guys... What's my best option?

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#23 Master_Scythe

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:30 AM

Lucky, whether I like mac or not, hardware is the same :P

if you really mean 'Light' video editing, aka. the occasional home movie, i5 will be OK, IMO.
Your ram will make the bigger difference.

Hardware performance isnt ignored by the OS, doesnt matter if its windows or Mac really.
http://www.techpower...70K_Comparison/

have a read of things like that, to get an idea.
PERSONALLY, i'd pay the high price, once, because macbooks are so expensive i'd want to keep it for a LONG time.
But if you can see an upgrade path for yourself in the future, then i5. IMO.

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#24 Mr.Twinkie

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 10:46 AM

That's really solid advice Master S, Thank you. Any idea when these MacBook will b released in retailers such as JB Hi fi? I should've been more specific with light video editing. I would enjoy editing music videos and short films from my camcorder with my friends as I'm an aspiring film maker but I'll enjoy just editing and making skits or montages with films and game trailers. is that the kind of work where I can control my lag by taking it easy or is the i5 dual core just shit for that? Dual cores just feel so primitive in this price point... I will have that pc machine with the upgraded gpu we talked about over in building, troubleshootong and modding Scythe. What do you reckon?

Edited by Mr.Twinkie, 25 October 2013 - 10:53 AM.

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#25 SquallStrife

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 12:14 PM

(lose) Software, 5 years ago, for sure. Nowadays I feel a lot of Open Source stuff has knocked apples range on its head.
Garage band falls to its knees in front of LMMS ()


Blech. Like nearly all Open Source software it has that "It's way more powerful once you get your head around the interface" thing going on.

That's my nearly-universal complaint about open source software. Sure, GIMP is powerful, once you unlearn everything you learned using software with well designed UIs.

My mates a film student\part time Director and tells me FinalCut is quite quickly dying to Adobe (for the 3rd time? the balance shifts, i'm sure it'll swing back, lol)


Final Cut costs money, I'm talking about bundled software. Right out of the box you get iMovie, which craps all over Windows Live Movie Maker for essentially everything.

The dot-point feature list comparison between Adobe Elements and iMovie is pretty tit-for-tat. I looked in to it pretty comprehensively before I started doing my retro gaming Youtube channel.

Office suites, well Open source rules there. I've used Mac's suite, and Office, and they both fail next to LibreOffice, slow, clunky, and overly 'feature rich' for an office suite.
The list can go on and on, software I'm going to disagree with; they're also front-end unconfigurable a lot of the time (re: 'Mail').


Unless it's changed dramatically in the last 2 years, LibreOffice is just as "slow, clunky" as any. I accept that this is completely subjective, and has more to do with "what you're used to" than any kind of measurable difference.

(win) Aesthetics? yep, OK. They're pretty. The trade off is the unibody 'no fix' design, which makes me uncomfortable, but its how they run. They can have Aesthetics. (but google some of the macbook clones from HP and the like.... they're really not alone)


Yep indeed, everybody's going the "no nonsense" route with industrial design. FINALLY!!! Laptops with stripes, patterns, grilles, logos, buttons, switches all over the fucking place should be shot. It's equipment for professionals, not an infant's toy.

The "no fix" thing is a non-issue these days. In all but the MacBook Air, you can swap the HDD and RAM, that's enough really. CPUs are outlasting their sockets these days, and the Intel Iris graphics on Haswell will (I reckon) destroy the low-end GPU market. If something else fails, take the machine to the Apple Store and they'll give you a new one.

(draw) Peripherals... quality or aesthetics?
As someone who uses purely Mac peripherals on his windows systems, they just don't take a beating well, but they're pretty. You also pay a HUGE premium on these, and that's not deniable. When I can buy the same wireless keyboard, from china, for $8, as I can here for $99; thats price gouging.
And yes, I own both, and yes, they're identical. So, yah, they're nice to use, but they dont last, and they're taxed to HELL.


Starting with the built-in peripherals on the portables, I am yet to see a clone laptop with a trakpad as big as MBP/MBA. That's going to be your main pointing device away from the desk, why do they still make them pissy little 2-3" squares with discrete buttons (then some of them waste pointing area with "scrolling areas" and other haphazard afterthought shit)? The Magic Mouse does more than two clicks and vertical scrolling, it scrolls sideways, pinch zooms, browser back/forward, and all with the two fingers you have on top of the device. Not for everybody, and not great for zomg action gamurz, but a step in the right direction towards better input devices.

A keyboard is a keyboard, that's true, and as separate items the Apple peripherals are costly, but when you buy a Mac the peripherals are included, their individual cost isn't relevant.

The list can go all day. As I said, I'm able to recognize where their place is. I just think its a lot less widespread than people imply and the aesthetics is what won them at the beginning, but that's society. Looking at their profit margins for last year, Yeah, I'd say they can afford to lower the 'Apple tax' even if its already low.


The "aesthetics is what won them" is a funny thing to say. If it was aesthetics alone, people wouldn't keep going back. You don't keep going to a pretty restaurant if the food is bad.

It's like buying a luxury European car, you're there for the enjoyment of the drive, not the pistons and crankshaft and horsepowers. Those things are there, and they're important, but that's not what your purchase is about, and as such you can't make the case that it's "taxed" or "overpriced" compared to a utilitarian Korean made 2-door hatch.

Re your hackintosh experience. I don't disagree, as I said, its like installing linux. You don't need clone hardware, but you DO need hardware on the 'supported list'. My point was that if pumpjockey02 was waiting for a new mac to be able to GAME on it, I'd have honestly considered the h'tosh a better choice.
I already said though, outside a geek forum where mods and hacking were the focus for most of its life, I wouldn't suggest it, so don't stress :)


"Clone" when I use it just means non-brand hardware. Back in the 80s, there were IBM systems, and clones.

Edited by SquallStrife, 25 October 2013 - 03:25 PM.

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#26 The Tick

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 01:09 PM

Could anybody tell me whether it's worth getting the i7 instead of the i5 dual core for the new haswell macbook? I'll just enjoy light video editing and gaming with the macbook along with the office word processing and browsing needs.

Goddamn these upgrade prices are ridiculous. I'll definitely get the 8gb ram option. I would LOVE more storage than 128gb but FRIGGIN $$$$$$.

I'm not willing to spend any more than 2000 on this machine guys...

What's my best option?


I'd stick with the i5 and get a reasonable amount of RAM. The storage pricing is obscene.

I opted (at the time) for 256GB for my retina 13". I just recently purchased a 480GB upgrade from OWC as Apple doesn't actually provide an upgrade option for the MBP Retina after you have bought it.

128GB is way too small IMHO. I wouldn't even do that to my wife. Get some music and photos going and it's game over. You could use external storage and move stuff to that (which I was doing with my Aperture Library) but that's another drive running around with you.

As for the rest of Apple's announcements ...

I am pretty excited. I'll never go back to an Android tablet after the crappy Samsung I own and after playing with the Nexus stuff. I have been waiting for the iPad mini to get a retina display to move off my 3rd Gen iPad so that's what I will be going for. The premium on price doesn't scare me considering how much I use my iPad for - for work and pleasure. I bought my wife a mini when they first came out and have been longing for a retina one as travelling light is fairly important to me and the reduction in screen size is perfectly fine.

The free upgrade to Mavericks, iLife suite, iWork ... it's an interesting move. Even if you have a dodgy copy of one of Apple's apps on the free list, it still works for the upgrade although it does move you straight into the App Store model so the pirates can view that however they will.

In regards to LibreOffce vs iWork. I like LibreOffice personally but it looks like shit. I have to support LibreOffice across about 65 sites around the country so I have a pretty good working knowledge of it. Squallstrife is right - it's another product that makes you learn it's specific way of doing things which makes it difficult for people to pick up and use and FWIW, iWork tends to satisfy many many MANY people's requirements of a simple, elegant word processor & spreadsheet with the bonus of having one of the better presentation tools out there. I personally wouldn't use Pages and Numbers again (I moved away when it stopped getting updated and stuck with Office and LibreOffice) but that doesn't mean they don't have their place.



Starting with the built-in peripherals on the portables, I am yet to see a clone laptop with a trakpad as big as MBP/MBA. That's going to be your main pointing device away from the desk, why do they still make them pissy little 2-3" squares with discrete buttons (then some of them waste pointing area with "scrolling areas" and other haphazard afterthought shit)? The Magic Mouse does more than two clicks and vertical scrolling, it scrolls sideways, pinch zooms, browser back/forward, and all with the two fingers you have on top of the device. Not for everybody, and not great for zomg action gamurz, but a step in the right direction towards better input devices.


Funny you mention this - I just received a new Sony Vaio which I have to prep and deploy for a client. The trackpad is actually big enough and surprisingly useable. It's about the first one I have encountered that isn't as you describe.

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#27 tastywheat

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 11:35 PM

Edit: blah, misread.

Edited by tastywheat, 25 October 2013 - 11:37 PM.


#28 The Tick

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 08:26 AM

Jesus. Looks like the Apple Tax™ has made a comeback. Taking into account the exchange rate and GST, Apple are asking for $611 AUD more for the base Mac Pro model in Australia compared to US prices. A bit of that would be due to shipping, seeing as they're being assembled in America, but still...


It's closer to $500 (gotta work it out less GST as US prices are advertised without tax) but yeah - still steep.

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#29 pumpjockey02

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Posted 27 October 2013 - 09:52 PM

Never got into gaming as you qould have to wait for ages for a release and then only a few would be released on mac. So no interest before but for uni and work, i need to keep abreast of everything ipad, apple and I refused to buy an inferior product apple mini, when apple had already started making retina mini's. So yeah new retina mini is out I need to get one, but is reading electronic books on it any good. i dont like kindles.

#30 Master_Scythe

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:10 AM

For starters, its 'iPad mini' the 'Apple Mini' is more referring to the Mac Mini.
Odd you thought they'd started working in retina ipad mini's since their official release of the original ipad mini was explained as "The retina screen uses too much power, to keep it this small, and have a retina display, would mean significantly shorter battery life" etc etc.
Clearly they DID release one, but I'm surprised you expected it after they clearly said 'no'.

ANYWHO.

No, reading electronic books will never be good on anything except e-paper. Been there, tried that, on EVERY device.

Bearable, yeah, just like any high resolution screen, but"
-its still projecting light outward at your eyes
-has restriction on viewing angles (though i admit, not big ones)
-they're all GLOSS, so reading in direct sunlight is hard.
-Battery life is balls, cant read for even half a day without charging (epaper lasts about 3 weeks i find)
-significantly heavier (my 6" kobo fits in a pocket and weighs less than my phone)

If you don't like Kindle, try a Kobo. I got one and its purely magic, open source formats, and Calibre (on PC) converts any ebook format, to any ebook format :)
Supports 'frame by frame' comic book reading, has a little web browser for emergencies, inward-facing screen illumination. For electronic books, its IMO, truly perfect. There really is no 'down side' to this little thing. I'd buy the new 7" if I had the chance, but this 6" is great!

In regards to LibreOffce vs iWork. I like LibreOffice personally but it looks like shit. I have to support LibreOffice across about 65 sites around the country so I have a pretty good working knowledge of it. Squallstrife is right - it's another product that makes you learn it's specific way of doing things which makes it difficult for people to pick up and use and FWIW.


I feel it just looks utilitarian.
Which it should. Its a work tool. Same reason I trust my dads beaten up Makita drill more than my new flashy blue one with pretty pictures.
In regards to learning its way, I really do disagree there. It feels like Office 95-2003; before the ribbon came in, I personally think (even after using the ribbon for years) that it feels more 'at home' than new versions of office do.
But arguing software in terms of usability is always a weird topic, because everyone expects something different.

Its funny, (and way off topic) but I've long agreed 'Linux is neat, but usability is hard so its not sensible'. Until recently.
Taking time out with both Mac and Ubuntu's new 'Unity', out of the box, Unity had better apps, quicker setup, nicer user interface, and it was entirely free!
I also like the 'Software Center' wayyyyy better than the 'app store'.
And Ubuntu was just quicker IMO.

As someone who's novice to both the Mac and Unity desktop environments, with the uptake of QUALITY linux software (IMO led by steams adoption), apple should be a little worried. Not a lot yet, but nerves should be setting in, lol.

With phone saturation at its peak, OS's trying to 'over innovate' each other, and hardware becoming so samey, I think the next 5 years will define a few companies futures more than they think. And not just apple.

Edited by Master_Scythe, 28 October 2013 - 09:01 AM.

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#31 The Tick

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Posted 28 October 2013 - 09:45 PM

But arguing software in terms of usability is always a weird topic, because everyone expects something different.


What is it about LibreOffice that you feel makes it more useable than Word or Pages?

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#32 Master_Scythe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 08:49 AM

three major things, for me. 1. portability. I cant get word or pages to successfully run from a USB stick install. Some older versions do, but they still don't save all their settings to the key, so you have to re-set some things. 2. Familiarity. It behaves exactly like Word 95-2003, IMO. If they managed to incorporate a slightly better image handling system, it'd be perfect. But for now, even though I use Word at work, I still work faster on 'the old style' than the new ribbon. (i also get less 'formatting glitches' where strange formatting applies itself automatically when you adjust paragraphs, when compared to Word) 3. Speed. Even from a USB stick, I find LibreOffice loads much faster than Office or Pages does from a HDD. Since I can be in and out of documents continuously, it helps to open and close quickly. and on a slightly (very) higher 'geek' level, newer version of word seem to hit my firewall logs, even after its been activated! Not really important I guess, just annoying to see my Tail grow and "oh its just my word processor...."

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#33 Mr.Twinkie

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:27 AM

When could that apple tax of almost $500 drop?

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#34 The Tick

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 10:44 AM

three major things, for me.

1. portability. I cant get word or pages to successfully run from a USB stick install. Some older versions do, but they still don't save all their settings to the key, so you have to re-set some things.

2. Familiarity. It behaves exactly like Word 95-2003, IMO. If they managed to incorporate a slightly better image handling system, it'd be perfect. But for now, even though I use Word at work, I still work faster on 'the old style' than the new ribbon. (i also get less 'formatting glitches' where strange formatting applies itself automatically when you adjust paragraphs, when compared to Word)

3. Speed. Even from a USB stick, I find LibreOffice loads much faster than Office or Pages does from a HDD. Since I can be in and out of documents continuously, it helps to open and close quickly.

and on a slightly (very) higher 'geek' level, newer version of word seem to hit my firewall logs, even after its been activated!
Not really important I guess, just annoying to see my Tail grow and "oh its just my word processor...."


From what it sounds like, your workflow seems to exist in an era of about 5 years ago. Considering pages works from a browser, you don't really get more portable than that. While I understand USB sticks may be better when internet isn't available, between the low price (free now) and ubiquitous install across OSX, iPads and iPhones, I don't see the issue - unless of course you are using Linux or Windows - then I can understand why you would want to exist with a technology that has dated.

In regards to point number 2. I disagree. Unless all you do is open a blank document and type, the workflow from OpenOffice/ LibreOffice is in fact very different, relying on some time spent setting up your styles to make it work effectively. It's not behave like Word 95-2003 at all.

In regards to point number 3. again I disagree. On my Mac, I just loaded Pages, then Word then LibreOffice. They were much of a muchness although LibreOffice was ever so slightly slower than the other two. I realise you are sporting an old MacBook so maybe it has something to do with that. I am running on a MacBook Pro Retina so have the luxury of SSD. On the older Windows XP systems still out in the wild that I need to support, Libreoffice loads like a freshly laid turd.

There are several things going for LibreOffice IMHO. The fact that it's free is pretty good. Cross platform compatibility is great. Installation scripting is fantastic for deployment. Once you learn it's peculiarities in regards to the way it handles styles and formatting, it works quite well.

From my perspective though, its shitty handling of graphics and unique way of doing things makes it harder to learn as it doesn't emulate anything a user has come across before. The 200 staff around the country I presently support could testify to this which is why I am presently working up a complete overhaul of company templates so they don't have to learn. They won't. Their not IT people and their job doesn't require them to be. Many are generally IT illiterate knowing how to turn on the computer and launch a program. As they put it when on a support call "computers scare me". I wonder if you would be surprised at how many though have an iPhone and can email me a photo of something that I need to see.

I realise that it's possible to learn the way each individual program works and comes at a problem. The issue is that for the average joe, it's just confusing. To some Apple making things kind of work the same creates a blandness to the experience. I think it's genius. For the sake of the argument - I just opened Final Cut Pro X yesterday. I haven't used Final Cut Pro since version 6. The fact that the workflow was completely intuitive as it resembles so much of Apple's software despite being a video editing package says a lot about the brilliance of uniformity. The fact that iWork and iLife are now free to anyone running OSX Mavericks is a master stroke, even if Apple did have to remove some functionality from iWork to make it more like the iOS counterparts.

When could that apple tax of almost $500 drop?


No idea but I would probably pay closer attention to when they actually go on sale/ are up for preorder.

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#35 Master_Scythe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

Yep. Old ass macbook for my apple testing. Admittedly my points above are on windows machines. Maybe its just more familiarity. We didnt have a spare few hundred bucks when I was growing up to buy office; so i used OpenOffice (once StarOffice went away; that thing ROCKED). So I guess the 'paragraph' style formatting is just something im used to. How is the USB stick method old? A lot of secure workplaces wont allow internet access; let alone 'cloud' services. USB is still heavily used (though don't try to take them into jails, theres like a 48 hour USB screening... thing) Loading online is half the problem with a lot of mac stuff. Macs seems to want internet connections. and the proxy CONSTANTLY prompts for passwords we don't have on hand. Did you know you cant reinstall Lion if you're not online? Since thats the highest level we're authorised to run, its quite frustrating. Its a car trip to an apple store every time an OS install goes wonky.

Edited by Master_Scythe, 29 October 2013 - 11:21 AM.

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#36 The Tick

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 11:51 AM

Yep. Old ass macbook for my apple testing. Admittedly my points above are on windows machines.


Last I checked, Pages didn't run on Windows.

Maybe its just more familiarity. We didnt have a spare few hundred bucks when I was growing up to buy office; so i used OpenOffice (once StarOffice went away; that thing ROCKED). So I guess the 'paragraph' style formatting is just something im used to.


Which is a great usage case for you personally. That doesn't mean it's right for the majority. In my humble experience, the simpler it's function, the more common it's UI elements, the better it's likely to be adopted.

How is the USB stick method old? A lot of secure workplaces wont allow internet access; let alone 'cloud' services. USB is still heavily used (though don't try to take them into jails, theres like a 48 hour USB screening... thing)
Loading online is half the problem with a lot of mac stuff. Macs seems to want internet connections. and the proxy CONSTANTLY prompts for passwords we don't have on hand.


I haven't met a normal user actually running apps off a USB stick. I see techies do it and possibly some fringe cases but not the common Joe. With the massive push towards cloud services, that is why I would regard the idea of running an app off a USB stick as "old".

Did you know you cant reinstall Lion if you're not online? Since thats the highest level we're authorised to run, its quite frustrating. Its a car trip to an apple store every time an OS install goes wonky.


My USB installer of OSX Lion would suggest otherwise. I can't speak for activation because I have never tried without an internet connection. If you dragged it to an Apple store each time then you are doing it wrong.

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Edited by The Tick, 29 October 2013 - 11:51 AM.

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#37 Master_Scythe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:36 PM

Yep. Old ass macbook for my apple testing. Admittedly my points above are on windows machines.


Last I checked, Pages didn't run on Windows.

<SNIP!>


My USB installer of OSX Lion would suggest otherwise. I can't speak for activation because I have never tried without an internet connection. If you dragged it to an Apple store each time then you are doing it wrong.

http://www.tuaw.com/...rive-for-cheap/


No, but my initial post did say "office and Pages" I got a little 'general' with my statements, I admit.
That discussion blossomed from me saying I think the open source alternatives are a fine alternative though.
I'll happily admit the general public arent going to go there. I just dont see a big reason why not; but I know they're not.


As for re-imaging LION, I'm not a mac guy. We had 3 different apple support people, and one from Data3 come out to re-install LION, and they couldnt do it without an internet connection.
We have internet, but SECURE connections are blocked. Apparently that was enough to think we were online, but have secure authentication fail.

If I'm doing it wrong (and I honestly could be, I'm not an apple guy!), then so are 2 apple specialists, and a Data3 dude.
Those 3 people, and 'Top level apple care support' phone guy said "you have no choice but to take it to an apple store"
If there's another way I'd LOVE to know, honestly!

Edited by Master_Scythe, 29 October 2013 - 12:40 PM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#38 The Tick

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 12:44 PM

Yep. Old ass macbook for my apple testing. Admittedly my points above are on windows machines.


Last I checked, Pages didn't run on Windows.

<SNIP!>


My USB installer of OSX Lion would suggest otherwise. I can't speak for activation because I have never tried without an internet connection. If you dragged it to an Apple store each time then you are doing it wrong.

http://www.tuaw.com/...rive-for-cheap/


No, but my initial post did say "office and Pages" I got a little 'general' with my statements, I admit.
That discussion blossomed from me saying I think the open source alternatives are a fine alternative though.
I'll happily admit the general public arent going to go there. I just dont see a big reason why not; but I know they're not.

"3. Speed. Even from a USB stick, I find LibreOffice loads much faster than Office or Pages does from a HDD"


That line isn't a generalisation - that clearly states that you have tried both and come away with an opinion. Sorry MS - but if you are making a statement as fact, which you very often do, it's hard to take what you say seriously when you appear to be making things up to justify your position.

As for your "experts" - I wasn't there and have no idea what they were seeing.

Incidentally, you can install Mavericks from a USB installer too (apparently).

Disclaimer: this post may have been made via a mobile device. All formatting, grammar and the possible hilarious substitution of key words should be attributed to the autocorrect features of the mobile device and likely has nothing to do with the idiot driving it.

 

te0p:"Your a Unreal."


#39 Master_Scythe

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:05 PM

Yep. Old ass macbook for my apple testing. Admittedly my points above are on windows machines.


Last I checked, Pages didn't run on Windows.

<SNIP!>


My USB installer of OSX Lion would suggest otherwise. I can't speak for activation because I have never tried without an internet connection. If you dragged it to an Apple store each time then you are doing it wrong.

http://www.tuaw.com/...rive-for-cheap/


No, but my initial post did say "office and Pages" I got a little 'general' with my statements, I admit.
That discussion blossomed from me saying I think the open source alternatives are a fine alternative though.
I'll happily admit the general public arent going to go there. I just dont see a big reason why not; but I know they're not.

"3. Speed. Even from a USB stick, I find LibreOffice loads much faster than Office or Pages does from a HDD"


That line isn't a generalisation - that clearly states that you have tried both and come away with an opinion. Sorry MS - but if you are making a statement as fact, which you very often do, it's hard to take what you say seriously when you appear to be making things up to justify your position.

As for your "experts" - I wasn't there and have no idea what they were seeing.

Incidentally, you can install Mavericks from a USB installer too (apparently).


Fair cop; but my personal opinions based on what I've tried, you disagree with. So where am I supposed to go from there?

Pages, obviously wasn't tested on Windows.
It loads slowly compared to LibreOffice on my Leopard macbook, so was my reasoning for my user case.
Office is slow as balls on my windows machine compared. Its a 4.2ghz quad core i7, Libre opens instantly, Office takes about a 3 second count, and hits my firewall a few times in the process.
And since my work is focused around education institutions and outdated government infrastructure, I'd see at least 50% of the staff running 'off USB' if only to use a POP mail program instead of Webmail.

No, certainly not the norm. I didnt think I said it was.... I'll go back and re-read though.


As for the experts, I was watching. They had a USB HDD with the Lion installer package on it. They did the apple+R (i think?) to get into the recovery boot mode; then selected their package. It would hang there, and complain it couldn't reach the internet and will not continue.
They then tried a genuine DVD (was a graphical disk with a lion on the front of it) and it hit the same wall. Cant do a complete reinstall without internet (apparently).

I promise I'm not making that shit up. Thats what happened. I watched it happen, feeling like an idior of an 'IT guy' when they simply tried original install media, then feeling relieved when it failed too.

There was also a 'restore from the internet' option, which, as expected, didnt even begin.

Apple care walked us through the whole process, and couldn't get past the "no internet connection" prompt.

Edited by Master_Scythe, 29 October 2013 - 01:09 PM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#40 The Tick

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 01:45 PM

Office is slow as balls on my windows machine compared. Its a 4.2ghz quad core i7, Libre opens instantly, Office takes about a 3 second count,


I think you need to re a-quaint yourself with the definition of "slow as balls".

As for the authentication thing - a portable hotspot would most likely suffice as a work around rather than "taking it back to an Apple store".

Still, I'll bite. I have a MacBook Pro which I needed to reinstall. I'm making a USB installer and will ensure there is no internet access to it and try it. Would be good to know if it's the case although I doubt I would ever hump a MAC back to a Mac store on a regular basis. If the network needs to support it, it would be up to the IT dept to allow it to occur otherwise, as suggested, a portable hotspot for the occasion.

I hope the people responsible didn't pay these people.

Edited by The Tick, 29 October 2013 - 01:49 PM.

Disclaimer: this post may have been made via a mobile device. All formatting, grammar and the possible hilarious substitution of key words should be attributed to the autocorrect features of the mobile device and likely has nothing to do with the idiot driving it.

 

te0p:"Your a Unreal."





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