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OSX Yosemite Beta


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#1 tastywheat

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Posted 14 August 2014 - 08:38 PM

This is the closest representation to the feeling I get while using the new OS X Beta:

Posted Image

Using it for the first time was a 'holy shit, the future is here' moment. The closest analogy I can think of is the jump from Windows XP to Windows 7. Functionally, not much has changed, but just about every element has been slightly refined and re-skinned, with stunningly beautiful results. Side by side with Windows 8.1, it's the first time since making the switch to Apple in 2006 that I can honestly say that Apple are unequivocally ahead of the game.

From my perspective, the best new feature is surprisingly Safari. It's just as responsive, if not more so, than Chrome. The menu bar is more compact. The bookmark system uses a new graphical grid interface accessed by clicking the address bar, that is more elegant than Chromes when dealing with a large amount of bookmarks. My only gripes so far are a reduced extension library, and I'm still adjusting to the different way it handles tabs.

There's still a few minor bugs. The iWork series is currently unusable. FaceTime shuts of the camera if you change Desktops, and won't start it up again until you restart the app. Occasionally Safari will hang for 3-5 seconds, then start working again. Rather unfortunately, the beta 'Feedback Assistant' is constantly crashing. However, I haven't found anything yet that makes me want to switch back to the Mavericks installation on the same machine for daily use, though it's still early days.

#2 Master_Scythe

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:35 AM

Cool!
Though owning a very old macbook someone gave me for my DJing, I've learnt the hard way that unlike my experience with windows, Apple seems to fair poorly on older hardware. Hopefully it doesn't tax peoples systems too much just to 'look nicer'. I still dont think I'll be going above Snow Leopard.

Chrome isnt a very good benchmark for speed IMO..... Opera 13 (Presto! engine) is a good browser for speed comparisons.
I don't think chrome has a built in Pop3 mail section, or IRC client either.... so its features are very narrow too
So far, nothing has come close. Chromium, compiled x64 is at least quick....

Owning an older one, but also having some 'Core i5' ones here at work, AND with my greatest attempt to leave Bias out of it, I'm yet to see any OS since about Windows98 be 'unequivocally ahead of the game'.

Very few people spend time interacting with the OS, most people open programs WITHIN the OS. It sounds like apple have once again been very very clever and given a great first impression.

The first 'big jump' in my lifetime was windows 98's 'web elements on the desktop'. That was pretty significant.
The last 'big jump' in usability, in my opinion, was keyboard shortcuts for program managing (Alt Tab on a windows machine; and each OS' equivalent). The next 'big jump' for a few people (not me personally) was mouse gestures inside apps.
Yet another (for me), was speech commands.


I'll hold my actual judgement for when I roll it out here at work, but I'm quietly cautious that all I'm going to get is a visual update, and 'new app versions' that would have been available on any recent OSX.... but we'll see.
Prove me wrong!

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#3 tastywheat

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 12:24 PM

Very few people spend time interacting with the OS, most people open programs WITHIN the OS.


This is why I think they've nailed it.

Windows 8 can be occasionally laborious to figure out how to get the OS to do what you want it to do. This effort comes with every interface shift to some extent, but Windows 8 has been particularly bad by half-arsing the split between Metro and the traditional desktop. It's not that Yosemite is necessarily a giant leap forward, it's more that they've continued to gradually improve on things, while Microsoft has been stagnant or moving in circles.

It's now unequivocally better than Windows in my opinion mostly because it's more consistent. Need to adjust a program setting? The keyboard shortcut ⌘+',' works on every program, or you can do it through the menu, which is also the same for every program. Need to change a system setting? It's always going to be in System preferences, and rarely more than 2 clicks deep. Apple have done a better job than Microsoft at organising system settings into logical categories. If you want to tweak something unusual, it's a unix command through terminal, meaning that only people who know what they're doing have access, and the system preferences is left uncluttered.

Spaces and mission control, when combined with multi-touch gestures, work better than Windows 8 Metro switching, or the traditional desktop style task bar. The green window button, one of my previous gripes, now goes to full screen instead of just resizing the window. Spotlight search has been expanded, and the keyboard shortcut means I can quickly launch any program, or search for information from wikipedia etc. without needing to move the mouse. I've only just started using Handoff today, but it appears to be a pretty neat. Again, it's not a leap forward - I'm pretty sure everything Handoff does has been covered by other apps, it's just that they got the essentials nailed. Notification bar widgets remind me of the promise of Windows 7 widgets, but provide actual functionality without being obtrusive.

Basically, they've stolen all the good parts of Windows and other services (e.g. Dropbox), and combined them with the good parts of previous versions of OS X.

#4 Master_Scythe

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 01:23 PM

I'm interested to see it :) things like unified menus are a nice thing, that's for sure. Oversimplifying options is a so-so thing for me.... You're right it lets the pros worry about it and the novices not.... But a feeling of 'power' and even 'excess' when it comes to your computer is something more and more users are craving. Even back in the day the amount of 'mum and dad' types that had TweakUI installed was NUTS! So I think a few users will be unhappy with the 'lack' of options. That said, I'm sure its not the majority, so meh. Though its been long established that MacOS isnt quite for me overall. They'll never get me to side with the 'we made it work for you, as long as you only do it our way' sort of principle. The fact that things still need jailbreaking is the sign of that. Apple TV's were great jailbroken. Stepping to windows 8.1, I dont find it nearly as clunky as a lot of people. My mind very quickly grasped the 'metro app world' and the 'oldschool app world' concept... almost like a virtual machine mindset I guess. But I can see where it would annoy people with 20 years of start menu-dekstop. Though I will admit, they had a great tool (MSCONFIG) back in windows ME~7, and in 8 they've split some of the features between task manager.... breaking what feel like an 'all in one place tool is a backward step for people who want to learn to config without hitting the registry. As i said, it sounds cool. and I'll no doubt roll it out. I'm curious how it'll run on my old Core2 machine, and how quickly the new features present themselves. I'm always ready to be surprised with Mac; they have done some cool shit in the past. Just, for me, not lately.

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#5 nobody813

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 09:39 PM

I'm just hopeful for me it's a better experience. I've had a few issues regarding WiFi and SMB shares ever since I upgraded to Mavericks, which never happened to me with Mountain Lion. Does look kinda cool though, and reading what you've said about it does make it sound good in other ways :-P

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#6 tastywheat

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Posted 15 August 2014 - 10:02 PM

I'm just hopeful for me it's a better experience. I've had a few issues regarding WiFi and SMB shares ever since I upgraded to Mavericks, which never happened to me with Mountain Lion. Does look kinda cool though, and reading what you've said about it does make it sound good in other ways :-P


I experienced the same SMB and Wifi issues with Mavericks. I'm not getting them on Yosemite so far, but I'm also using a new computer, so I'm not sure if it was hardware or software responsible for the Wifi issues.

Edited by tastywheat, 15 August 2014 - 10:02 PM.


#7 tastywheat

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 02:52 PM

Chrome isnt a very good benchmark for speed IMO..... Opera 13 (Presto! engine) is a good browser for speed comparisons.


I thought I'd test out this claim with a few benchmarks. Opera 13 isn't compatible with Yosemite, so I used the latest version instead.

Browserbench.org offers two different benchmarking tools. The first is called Speedometer, which is designed to measure the responsiveness of typical web applications.

Posted Image

Safari 8.0 dominated by a significant margin.


The second benchmark, Jetstream, measures a browsers performance with advanced web applications.

Posted Image

Here Chrome comes out on top. Firefox threw up errors running this benchmark, so couldn't be included. What's interesting from my perspective is that while it's the slowest overall, Safari has the best latency score.

To some extent, I think these benchmarks back up my initial perceptions. For everyday browsing, Safari 8.0 is currently the fastest browser available for OSX.

Edited by tastywheat, 16 August 2014 - 02:56 PM.


#8 nobody813

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Posted 16 August 2014 - 06:55 PM

I'm just hopeful for me it's a better experience. I've had a few issues regarding WiFi and SMB shares ever since I upgraded to Mavericks, which never happened to me with Mountain Lion. Does look kinda cool though, and reading what you've said about it does make it sound good in other ways :-P


I experienced the same SMB and Wifi issues with Mavericks. I'm not getting them on Yosemite so far, but I'm also using a new computer, so I'm not sure if it was hardware or software responsible for the Wifi issues.

Hopefully Yosemite fixes it, as it's damn frustrating :-/

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#9 SquallStrife

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Posted 17 August 2014 - 07:06 PM

Spaces and mission control, when combined with multi-touch gestures, work better than Windows 8 Metro switching, or the traditional desktop style task bar.


After owning MacBook Pros for 4 years, I now find the Windows task bar and Alt+Tab (even Windows+Tab) clumsy.

Spaces + Mission Control + Exposť + Multi-touch Gestures = The best thing since sliced bread. No joke.
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#10 Master_Scythe

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 08:59 AM

Chrome isnt a very good benchmark for speed IMO..... Opera 13 (Presto! engine) is a good browser for speed comparisons.


I thought I'd test out this claim with a few benchmarks. Opera 13 isn't compatible with Yosemite, so I used the latest version instead.


latest version is just 'another webkit browser' so, makes sense. There's a reason i specified version number and rendering engine.

Regardless of that though; it DOES highlight why I have confusion over Chromes dominance. Its the youngest, slowest, and 'trackiest' of all the browsers. Odd really.

Edited by Master_Scythe, 18 August 2014 - 09:00 AM.

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#11 SquallStrife

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 09:19 AM

Chrome is the most feature-complete out of the box, for features people actually care about.

- Browser sync (bookmarks, plugins, skins, passwords) across computers and devices, no plugin necessary.
- Plays Flash without having to install Flash
- Comes on Android devices by default now
- Nobody cares about POP3 or IRC any more. You keep forgetting what an edge-case you are, you nerd. :P

Statements about how "tracky" Chrome is are largely conjecture.

http://lifehacker.co...google-about-me

If you're concerned about what information Chrome gathers, you'll shit your pants when you see what, say, Steam or World of Warcraft gather.

Edited by SquallStrife, 18 August 2014 - 09:20 AM.

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#12 Master_Scythe

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 09:55 AM

Steam gathers a ton; but thats kinda a 'meh' for me. It can capture what it likes while i'm gaming.
besides, thats up for debate anyway.
http://gizmodo.com/i...site-1524340357


Opera did all of your list many, many, years ago (v9 i think?); and while IRC is a nerdy edge case, Pop3 is extensively used; its what probably 75% of all outlook users are relying on. When i showed a few users I can set it up on their USB stick in a portable broswer; they were wowed.
portable thunderbird or whatever is one thing; having an 'all in one app' (RSS for company updates, pop3 for email, built in ad blocking) on your USB stick is another.

I think the point I'm forgetting is how much people love to throw their money around.
Since my laptop is primarily a 'web surfer', its still a dual core C2D. Not a fancy i7 haswell with umpteen gigs of ram.
Therefore, I look for the most user friendly and smooth web experience I can get.
Chrome is slow, lacks features (tab stacking!!!!!!!!!), and until recently, was 32bit. it had no appeal to my older machine, or me.
But i'm sure the reality is that everyones walking around with 2014 macbook airs and alienware laptops (or equivalent), primarily.

Its way off topic in the Apple section, so I'll let you all get on with it :P
but lets just say there's a reason the user base is screaming for PRESTO! to become open source, rather than die off since opera went to webkit. Assuming the site followed W3C standards; It was, simply, better. Nothing else can handle zoom, 'fit to width' or 'inverse colors' even close to what the presto engine could. (at least from a user perspective; cant even find 'fit to width' in chrome to re-flow pages for me...)

Edited by Master_Scythe, 18 August 2014 - 09:57 AM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

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#13 tastywheat

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 12:51 PM

but lets just say there's a reason the user base is screaming for PRESTO! to become open source, rather than die off since opera went to webkit.


If the Presto! engine was superior, why do you think Opera have moved away from it? HTML5 compatibility?

Edited by tastywheat, 18 August 2014 - 12:51 PM.


#14 Master_Scythe

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Posted 18 August 2014 - 01:04 PM

nah HTML5 rendered sweet on the last dev build of the presto browser. Youtube check said it missed like one of the compression codecs, but thats about all.

They've publicly explained why; it was the big boys crushing the little ones.
Even the firefox blog wrote how sorry they are to see presto go, and how good diversity is in web engines. (the title of the article was 'browser wars' i think).

In a world populated by webkit browsers, like with most languages a lot of 'bugs' are relied on to generate a page; (things as simple as not caring about an extra space bar character; while technically it might make it not comply anymore), it was too hard to stay on top of the trend

Webkit had more resources (even if it was in competition between each other) and presto had only opera.

Thats why there are petitions, a website, and countless forum posts dedicated to 'open source presto' because with the OSS community working as a whole on it, the idea of staying up with the curve is a more possible scenario.

The ONLY page i can find that wont work properly, is the new jbhifi page; and thats trash to begin with.. have a look!

EDIT: this guy looks cool; and is still way off topic :P http://en.wikipedia....e_(web_browser)
or even this http://www.avantbrowser.com/

Edited by Master_Scythe, 18 August 2014 - 01:16 PM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#15 tastywheat

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Posted 19 August 2014 - 10:04 PM

This is a very cool new feature:

 

Menu search



#16 SquallStrife

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:18 AM

This is a very cool new feature:
 
Menu search


Oh wau......
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#17 nobody813

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 12:33 PM

 

This is a very cool new feature:
 
Menu search


Oh wau......

 

About time!!! Think Ubuntu has this already, and have been waiting for it to be included in OS X and Windows. So handy!


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#18 Master_Scythe

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 02:38 PM

why is the url flawless aged German shepherd?

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#19 tastywheat

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 07:29 PM

why is the url flawless aged German shepherd?

 

Random source from reddit.



#20 bowlen

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Posted 20 August 2014 - 08:32 PM

I will be updating my Mac:Mini and my Fiancee's MacBook Pro as soon as this is released! 


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