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#21 Master_Scythe

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:11 AM

 

iPad has a ton of features; the app ecosystem is a little better, they're better developed, and the resolution is overkill, and they get a little more battery life (used to be tons before android was better dev'd).


The resolution isn't overkill, it's used to make text smoother and clearer.

The UI elements are nearly the same physical size on iPad Air today, as they were on iPad 1.

 

 

As someone who wears glasses; And talking to a user who admits to using it without glasses.

While even with them, finds small things hard to see (as he explained about using his phone);

I still say overkill in this use scenario.

 

 

Of course, everyone's results will vary greatly, I'm sure shit loads of people love it (you seem to, for exhibit A).

But then a Mate with no eye problems bought a 15" retina macbook. Even he thinks its overkill. 

He's a graphics+web designer, so having an 'odd size screen' to the rest of the world I guess hindered his productivity?

 

Its all about usage scenarios.


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#22 Master_Scythe

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 08:27 AM

What would be the benefit of getting an android tablet or surface pro over an iPad?

 

For me? Convenience.

 

There is no arguing that APPLE has the market cornered on 'ease of use', open an app, use it, push the big middle button, done. But I'm far too At0mic to give a crap about 'ease of use' I want 'Maximum Power' and function.

 

As I said, I'm more than able to look at an iPad and see where it's loved, but I have quite the list that hinders my personal appreciation:

 

1. iTunes required. 

If I could install this without the additional services I'd be fine. But even if I disable them they complain. As someone who hates 'bloat' on their lean mean system, iTunes offers me nothing that MediaMonkey or Winamp doesnt, besides iOS integration.

At least MediaMonkey can handle all the music on an i-pod\phone\pad

 

2. No SD card slot.

Not for the reason people think. It's not about 'is my tablet big (storage) enough'.

When I carry a laptop, I use an SD card like a USB stick, I find it more convenient. I also have one in my camera, and one in my 3DS, one on my keyring, and one in my phone.

If\Whel it comes time to juggle some data, I'm a big fan of plug, copy, eject.

The most realistic usage scenario for me is with the camera; take a bunch of photos, pop the card out, edit and preview them on the big tablet.

I know the iPad has a 'camera kit' now, but for my personal use, its just another thing I have to buy, and carry.

 

3. No custom ROMS

This isnt going to be a deal for many people. But I love overclocking, undervolting, and tweaking.

The fact that my tablet runs 50mhz faster than stock across each step, at 0.1v LESS across each step, makes me feel bad-ass.

Just depends how loud the tweaker within is :P

I also Dual Boot UBUNTU with it.
 

4. Codecs.

I like to be able to play any file I have with VLC or other apps, this might have changed, but last I checked iPad only did what iTunes supports.

no?

 

5. Price.

Lets face it, buying something like a CUBE u30GT is $100.

It's a Dual core 1.5Ghz, with a Quad core MALI 400 GPU, 1080pIPS screen, and to this day laughs at anything I throw at it. Perfectly stable, everything works, battery life is huge.

iPad feels sturdier, but I have a really reeeeaaallllyy big problem with carrying expensive gear, it makes me 'enjoy life' less.

If I break my u30gt (which I have before) I'm annoyed, and ordered another.

If I break a $300+ ipad, I'd be pretty pissed right off the bat.

 

 

 

 

iPads win a lot of customers, as explained, because they 'just work', but honestly, these days they all do.

They all have an HTML5 web browser, they all have an acceptable app store (windows is smaller, but still functional), they all look at pictures and movies.

iPads have the nicer screen. Android has FLASH player for older sites.

 

The reason I advocate ANDROID, despite being distrustful of google as a whole, is because for the typical usage scenario, $100 buys what apple asks $300 for; and for my 1/3rd cost, I get a lot more 'geek factor' to play with, along with the same basics all the tablet players can do.

Also, with no SD card slot, and the itunes requirement, apple devices end up paperweights for me personally, very quickly. This clearly wont apply to everyone.


Edited by Master_Scythe, 10 November 2014 - 09:06 AM.

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#23 Nich...

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 12:54 PM

The casual user gives zero shits about this kind of stuff. 

I didn't realise i was answering it for what a casual observer might want.

 

iOS8 has made the keyboard difference disappear.  But my iphone is unable to go back to iOS7 if I'm unhappy with how long a 4s takes to load stuff in iOS8.  My N7 tablet, being unlocked, lets me reinstall whatever version of Android I feel strikes the best feature/performance ration.  But again, that's not something the casual user gives two shits about.


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#24 SquallStrife

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:09 PM

As someone who wears glasses; And talking to a user who admits to using it without glasses.
While even with them, finds small things hard to see (as he explained about using his phone);
I still say overkill in this use scenario.


That still suggests that higher resolution intrinsically means smaller UI elements for a given physical display size. That's an archaic holdover from Windows that still uses fixed pixel sizes for a lot of things.
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#25 Master_Scythe

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:14 PM

 

As someone who wears glasses; And talking to a user who admits to using it without glasses.
While even with them, finds small things hard to see (as he explained about using his phone);
I still say overkill in this use scenario.


That still suggests that higher resolution intrinsically means smaller UI elements for a given physical display size. That's an archaic holdover from Windows that still uses fixed pixel sizes for a lot of things.

 

 

but still a very real problem.

a lot of old webpages use fixed pixel sizes.

Also when running a VM or even MSTSC, it becomes a real issue too.

 

But regardless of that, its about cost and battery.

A 'better' screen uses more power and makes the device cost a lot more.

Both scenarios that, above 1080p, are sacrifices I wont make for an arguably 'better' screen in daily use.

 

Mileage will vary per user of course.


Edited by Master_Scythe, 10 November 2014 - 01:15 PM.

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#26 SquallStrife

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:15 PM

I didn't realise i was answering it for what a casual observer might want.


Sorry. I just felt that "more control" should be better quantified. When nerds wax lyrical about Android, the trope "more control" usually get thrown about without much consideration for what it actually means or enables you to accomplish.
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#27 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 01:44 PM

I have no idea what you guys are talking about, can you please explain it in an "easy to understand" format?


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#28 Master_Scythe

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 02:00 PM

Which part? The terms are very exact, practically nothing is in 'tech speak' beyond what it needs to be.

 

Copy and paste the bits that need clarification and I'll do what I can :)


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#29 NightOwl

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Posted 10 November 2014 - 09:19 PM

Go the air 2. Brilliant device. I also have a mini first gen, but use it rarely. The air is so thin and light, it's just as easy to slip into a bag and carry about. Much prefer the larger screen, even for reading.
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#30 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 06:20 AM

Go the air 2. Brilliant device. I also have a mini first gen, but use it rarely. The air is so thin and light, it's just as easy to slip into a bag and carry about. Much prefer the larger screen, even for reading.

Thanks, will think about it. It is easier to save up for a mini but if you say so, then I will think about it. Good to get some advice from someone who has experienced it first hand

 

a lot of old webpages use fixed pixel sizes.

Also when running a VM or even MSTSC, it becomes a real issue too.

 

A 'better' screen uses more power and makes the device cost a lot more.

Both scenarios that, above 1080p, are sacrifices I wont make for an arguably 'better' screen in daily use.

 

 

That still suggests that higher resolution intrinsically means smaller UI elements for a given physical display size. That's an archaic holdover from Windows that still uses fixed pixel sizes for a lot of things.

 


There is no arguing that APPLE has the market cornered on 'ease of use', open an app, use it, push the big middle button, done. But I'm far too At0mic to give a crap about 'ease of use' I want 'Maximum Power' and function.

 

As I said, I'm more than able to look at an iPad and see where it's loved, but I have quite the list that hinders my personal appreciation:

 

1. iTunes required. 

If I could install this without the additional services I'd be fine. But even if I disable them they complain. As someone who hates 'bloat' on their lean mean system, iTunes offers me nothing that MediaMonkey or Winamp doesnt, besides iOS integration.

At least MediaMonkey can handle all the music on an i-pod\phone\pad

 

2. No SD card slot.

Not for the reason people think. It's not about 'is my tablet big (storage) enough'.

When I carry a laptop, I use an SD card like a USB stick, I find it more convenient. I also have one in my camera, and one in my 3DS, one on my keyring, and one in my phone.

If\Whel it comes time to juggle some data, I'm a big fan of plug, copy, eject.

The most realistic usage scenario for me is with the camera; take a bunch of photos, pop the card out, edit and preview them on the big tablet.

I know the iPad has a 'camera kit' now, but for my personal use, its just another thing I have to buy, and carry.

 

3. No custom ROMS

This isnt going to be a deal for many people. But I love overclocking, undervolting, and tweaking.

The fact that my tablet runs 50mhz faster than stock across each step, at 0.1v LESS across each step, makes me feel bad-ass.

Just depends how loud the tweaker within is :P

I also Dual Boot UBUNTU with it.
 

4. Codecs.

I like to be able to play any file I have with VLC or other apps, this might have changed, but last I checked iPad only did what iTunes supports.

no?

 

5. Price.

Lets face it, buying something like a CUBE u30GT is $100.

It's a Dual core 1.5Ghz, with a Quad core MALI 400 GPU, 1080pIPS screen, and to this day laughs at anything I throw at it. Perfectly stable, everything works, battery life is huge.

iPad feels sturdier, but I have a really reeeeaaallllyy big problem with carrying expensive gear, it makes me 'enjoy life' less.

If I break my u30gt (which I have before) I'm annoyed, and ordered another.

If I break a $300+ ipad, I'd be pretty pissed right off the bat.

 

 

 

 

iPads win a lot of customers, as explained, because they 'just work', but honestly, these days they all do.

They all have an HTML5 web browser, they all have an acceptable app store (windows is smaller, but still functional), they all look at pictures and movies.

iPads have the nicer screen. Android has FLASH player for older sites.

 

The reason I advocate ANDROID, despite being distrustful of google as a whole, is because for the typical usage scenario, $100 buys what apple asks $300 for; and for my 1/3rd cost, I get a lot more 'geek factor' to play with, along with the same basics all the tablet players can do.

Also, with no SD card slot, and the itunes requirement, apple devices end up paperweights for me personally, very quickly. This clearly wont apply to everyone.

 

 

That still suggests that higher resolution intrinsically means smaller UI elements for a given physical display size. That's an archaic holdover from Windows that still uses fixed pixel sizes for a lot of things.

 

They are the things I understand.


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#31 Master_Scythe

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 08:17 AM

Then you've gotten all the important bits.

Trying to speak un-bias'd:

 

the iOS\iPad advocates up there are explaining the pros; well developed, looks\feels sleek or small, iOS improvements are seemingly 'good', big app integration.

The Android people are saying: More options (different OS, 'unsigned' apps from anyone, etc), SD card slot, and price.

 

 

PERSONALLY i'd argue that apples 'pros' can be found on an android device too if you just go try them in person, but to each their own.

 

The rest of it was just nit picking about what 'advantages' of each platform are really advantages. Like, I have a x1200p 27" LCD screen... I dont need more than 1080p on an 8" device; at 3.375 times the pixel density of my 1080p, thats almost a '4k' screen as far as ppi (pixels per inch) goes... I just dont want or need more.

BUT some people can tell, and do want this.

 

Really, you need to spend some time with each system; just because you've used an iPad, and like it, isn't (to me) enough of a reason to spend $300-$500 dollars on something I dont NEED.

 

If I want to flick angry birds around, play some shooters, surf the net, watch flash animations, manage my photos, and listen to streaming music\youtube.

I have a $100 android tablet that can do that. I PERSONALLY couldn't justify more.

 

LOTS of people can, and will, justify more. This is coming down to preference\opinion, since they both 'work'.


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"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#32 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 12:16 PM

Ok. You have some very good points there...I just realised that I wrote understand instead of not understand, sorry...


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#33 NightOwl

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Posted 11 November 2014 - 09:41 PM

Master scythe is correct, it is indeed all about personal preference. I upgrade my tablet every year and before doing so, always check all options available but still end up buying ipad, without hesitation, simply because I like the look, feel and functionality of it. Best advice ... try them all, spend an hour in the store playing around with it, then buy the one you like best :)

Edited by NightOwl, 11 November 2014 - 09:42 PM.

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#34 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:17 AM

Master scythe is correct, it is indeed all about personal preference. I upgrade my tablet every year and before doing so, always check all options available but still end up buying ipad, without hesitation, simply because I like the look, feel and functionality of it. Best advice ... try them all, spend an hour in the store playing around with it, then buy the one you like best :)

Ok. Thanks, that means there is some saving to do :P but that is the best advice I have gotten thanks :) no offence to scythe.


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#35 Master_Scythe

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 03:20 PM

Lol, how could i take offence? :P

 

NightOwl is using the 'follow your heart' metaphor, and I'm using the 'features I convince myself I'll need later' approach.

 

Both great, and flawed, in their own ways. :)


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#36 Nich...

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 06:20 PM

Have you used both? Do you have a personal preference?
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#37 NightOwl

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Posted 12 November 2014 - 08:54 PM

Lol, how could i take offence? :P
 
NightOwl is using the 'follow your heart' metaphor, and I'm using the 'features I convince myself I'll need later' approach.
 
Both great, and flawed, in their own ways. :)

Lol ... I'm actually a deadly practical person. Head always rules over heart. My requirements are different, is all .... :)
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#38 The Tick

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 07:20 AM

 

 

I only ask because Ipads are usually only useful in a business environment, otherwise the end up being toys.

android tabs, and even surfaces are real 'geek tools'  no matter what,and are also useful in a business environment.

 

 

 

It's statements like this that pretty much mean I can never take you seriously anymore Master_Scythe.

 

My Samsung galaxy 7.7 has been relegated to a (ridiculously expensive) media player for my 3 year old. The iPads in the house are generally fought over - even the older iPad mini (original).

 

Multi usage case:

 

On my recent trip to Iceland, I had my iPad air and bought a Logitech bluetooth keyboard as long typing on any tablet I have used has been shit. I also panicked and brought along my notebook in the event I needed to remote in for support in case the guy who was looking after things got stuck.

 

Videos on the plane, games along with a diary app and VNC, TeamViewer, RDP client, VPN ... everything was handled on my iPad. I really regret having taken the notebook with the extra weight now.

 

I also had my DSLR which has wireless built in. This was perfect for downloading the JPG images (my 64GB iPad really had some space issues so backing up RAW was not possible in this case) and doing some quick editing and Facebook updates for those playing along at home. I did do some backups to the notebook considering I had it (although I am eyeing off a WD wireless drive which now sports an SD card slot for automated backups and streams to iOS and Android for 6 hours with an inbuilt battery). Mobile hard drives do make extending media storage handy. I had a 16GB Kingston for a while which served video for the kids when in the back seat and meant I could just throw them onto the device without having to sync and worry about the limited storage on the devices they had back then.

 

In terms of what I would recommend if you want to go iPad.

 

Don't go the 16GB version of an iPad. You will run out of space faster than you think. I am pissed that Apple have consciously gotten rid of a 32GB model but getting pissed isn't going to change your options.

 

I do have the LTE model and it works great. My wife has the wifi only model. I would say if you are happy to tether, stick with the wifi model and save some $$.

 

As for mini vs Air 2, the Air 2 will give you a "technically" better iPad. The guts of the mini 3 are pretty much the same as the mini 2 with the exception of touch ID and the ability to use it to pay for things when Apple get their AU bank deals inked. I personally wouldn't pay for things with my iPad so I guess it's worth considering if the smaller footprint is more important to you and do the other things matter as you could possibly still pick up the mini 2 for cheaper (and find a 32GB model). You are getting the same speed device.

 

I like the bigger real estate on the Air though. I like the ability to see and edit photos where my brother's mini2 always seemed a little cramped for that. The fact that it has actually taken the place of my mobile needs over the notebook has shown me how far it's come but honestly, you need to make your own decision.

 

My usage case will be different from yours and is obviously totally different from Master_Scythe's. I personally never met an Android device I liked. I haven't played with a surface 3 yet but the windows tablets I have played with left me wanting.

 

One of the things that should be considered is that I, unlike Sythe, have no desire to hack. I have *nix systems, or raspberry pis that satisfy that side of my personality. I like a device that generally works as advertised and I like the fact that I get updates when they are available. For that last point alone I would most likely suggest the Air 2 as you are getting the latest in hardware which in Apple terms generally means the longest support option. Touch ID is nice when dealing with password managers, dropbox integration etc ... which does add an extra level of security and ease of access.


Edited by The Tick, 13 November 2014 - 09:10 AM.

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#39 Mademan

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 08:34 AM

My only bit of advice is that 16GB may be just a wee bit too small, especially if you plan on playing games on it - once you account for the space taken up by the operating system, you'll have about 11 or 12GB of storage left. This may well be enough for you, but given the size of some games for iOS it may not be, especially when factoring in any other content like movies. I'd have a look through the App Store for games that you're interested in playing, and check their size - games like Real Racing 3 or Vice City can take up around 1GB each, which is a fair chunk out of 12GB, where as games like Angry Birds or Hay Day take up very little space.

 

P.s. Apple are still selling the iPad Mini 2, which comes as a 32GB model in either Wifi or Wifi and Cellular. Given the only differences between the Mini 2 and Mini 3 are the TouchID sensor and the gold colour option, this may be a smarter alternative if you want to go for the smaller size.


Edited by Mademan, 13 November 2014 - 09:29 AM.


#40 Master_Scythe

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Posted 13 November 2014 - 07:51 PM



 



 

 

I only ask because Ipads are usually only useful in a business environment, otherwise the end up being toys.

android tabs, and even surfaces are real 'geek tools'  no matter what,and are also useful in a business environment.

 

 

 

It's statements like this that pretty much mean I can never take you seriously anymore Master_Scythe.

 

 

Lol, really? So things like different workplace use of technology are one of the reasons you can never take me seriously?  Pretty judgemental, and deliberately inflammatory statement to make; but your'e welcome to make it.

At least as a jester I'm entertaining, or endlessly infuriating. Either one makes me smile :)

 

It comes off as very fanboi. To dislike that someone has a different 'usual experience' to your own 'usual experience', and then make negative comments toward them? I can only assume its driven by the product.

 

 

 

But yes, to reiterate my point; in a workplace I find iPads are great tools.

They integrate with Exchange flawlessly, they fully support wpad files for advanced proxy configuration, their wireless performance is pretty top notch, and with a Mac Server, managing apps has never been easier.

 

Meanwhile whenever I have brought my iPad home from work, or been to someone's house who also owns one, it's usually got games being played, or facebook open. Only one have I experienced someone typing an assignment on them.

That's the grand total of my experience with them outside the office.

 

Things I didn't manage to do with the iPad, which my Android tablet did well were pretty crucial in my eyes.

-I couldnt find a way to map the ipads internal storage to an SMB share; crucial with the way my networks set up. [I had movies on it! my smart TV couldnt see them :(]

-During a blackout, I couldn't find a way to transfer from a USB stick to the device. tried a 'Camera Kit' but it didnt want to recognise the stick, it was in ExFAT, apple started supporting this last year AFAIK

-I then had one hell of a time sending the file to the iPad via Bluetooth... couldn't quite work it out. We're up to revision 4.0 of the bluetooth stack, this shouldn't be this hard :(

-I couldn't find a single (even paid!) app for torrenting on ipad. I even installed OPERA but the torrent client seems to be stripped in the iOS release?

-My partner at the time couldn't find a way to decrease the 'touch area'. She's an artist and had a fine tip stylus that worked fine, but seemed to be a way larger 'touch' than the tip.

-Couldn't figure out how to load FLASH content. I know apple 'dont support it' but there's open source alternatives out there, and you'd think SOME app developer would have by now.

-Couldn't figure out a decent 'phone app' I had a mic\headset combo, and a simcard in the device, but couldn't load any sort of dialler.

 

Basically every use I have for a tablet each night (low power overnight transfer PC, interactive NAS, art tablet, PC replacement over HDMI, somewhere to play Flash games, spare phone) couldn't be accomplished (or if it could, I had a hard time figuring how).

Meanwhile, my android tablet did most of it out of the box, and anything else was taken care of with free apps that were first hits on google.

Hell, even easier than Android was my BBOS10 phone

 

People clearly have different expectations. to me, it (the ipad) is a bloody powerful ARM computer, all on it's own, but it feels very restricted.

Almost like a PDA of days gone by. It almost feels like it expects you to own a PC ( or, more so a MAC) to use it to its full potential.

 

I can admit, its possible, and even likely, that the iPad can do all my 'usual nightly tasks' and I just haven't been exposed to the iPads ecosystem long enough to figure it out....

 

But with the fringe example of wanting flash in a modern web environment; most of my stuff is pretty basic for any android, surface, BB10, or even Symbian device (meego, in its current form, my NUC runs it). The iPad was more frustrating than useful at home.

 

Though, to be fair, its an iPad2, so perhaps the newer ones are more feature rich.

 

At work the next day, it 'syncs' over wifi with the mac server, and bypasses the filtering on the proxy server like it should, lets me RDP into all my servers and workstations as I travel the grounds, and handles mail flawlessly, jumps between wifi hotspots seamlessly, and battery lasts all day! it's a godsend.

None of the features I need, nor even want, when I'm at home.

 

Different strokes man, if we all agreed, it'd be one hell of a boring forum.

 

I would though, be genuinely curious to see stats on the number of people who predominantly use an ipad for casual games, and facebook. I personally think it'd be significant.


Edited by Master_Scythe, 13 November 2014 - 08:06 PM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"





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