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Simple SSD NAS setup

SSD NAS Dummies

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#1 fobbitty

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 09:27 PM

Greetings fellow Humanoids!

 

It's been some time since I've dealt with any of the 'new' tech, so I need some input.

 

I need an inexpensive NAS unit that will work with solid state drives, and give me at least RAID mirroring.

 

I realise there's a lot of options available, but I would value your opinions on what NAS box, best SSDs etc.

 

Many thanks,

 

fobbitty

 

 



#2 Rybags

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 10:45 PM

Why SSDs?  Gigabit ethernet would max out before you hit the upper read speed of many mechanical HDDs.  Write speed wouldn't be too far off that.  Sure, SSDs can give a big advantage with latency but overall the gain would probably be minimal.



#3 Jeruselem

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 09:05 AM

SSDs are still very expensive which means your cost per GB on SSD against normal drives is higher. You're better forking out money on higher capacity cheaper 7200 RPM drives.

And yes GB ethernet is slower than SATA3 speeds of the SSDs.


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#4 Rybags

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 01:42 PM

Slower than Sata1 actually.  A better option might be some hybrid SSHDs.  The cost is about $30 more per drive but you'd benefit somewhat if it's to be a medium/heavy use sharing situation.



#5 fobbitty

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 03:18 PM

Thanks guys! Speed isn't the issue, I am chasing minimal moving bits. Also only require a quarter to a half terabyte mirrored in this instance.

Fobbitty

#6 Rybags

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 03:31 PM

Another thing - you'd want something that supports the Trim command.  Normally that's done through the OS/driver and motherboard or controller chipset for built-ins.  In a NAS situation you'd need a unit that supports it whether the drives are in seperate or Raid mode.



#7 Jeruselem

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 05:19 PM

OK, SSD wouldn't be too pricey for 250-500GB then.

I would check if the NAS does support TRIM indeed.


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#8 Rybags

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 05:26 PM

240 Gig SSDs are in the $90-$130 range, so doing a mirrored array is pretty affordable.



#9 fobbitty

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 07:28 PM

Thanks for the info people!

Now just have to find a NAS unit that supports TRIM. Not a spec that's usually listed :(

Cheers

Fobbitty

#10 Jeruselem

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 09:46 PM

Thanks for the info people!

Now just have to find a NAS unit that supports TRIM. Not a spec that's usually listed :(

Cheers

Fobbitty

 

We got a NAS at work but we shoved like a load of 6TB drives in there ...


Edited by Jeruselem, 31 May 2016 - 09:46 PM.

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#11 The Tick

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Posted 01 June 2016 - 12:21 PM

This might help:

 

https://www.synology...kgroup_ssd_trim

 

This model seems to specifically support both 2.5" drives and lists SSD as supported to:

https://www.synology.../DS416slim#spec


Disclaimer: this post may have been made via a mobile device. All formatting, grammar and the possible hilarious substitution of key words should be attributed to the autocorrect features of the mobile device and likely has nothing to do with the idiot driving it.

 

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#12 Master_Scythe

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 09:20 AM

Thanks guys! Speed isn't the issue, I am chasing minimal moving bits. Also only require a quarter to a half terabyte mirrored in this instance.

Fobbitty

 

You may be better off with a HP microserver at well sub $300.

 

Then you can run your OS of choice, and depending on how often your data changes, use SnapRAID or FlexRAID to handle the raid, so the OS\TRIM can see the drives 'normally'.

Perhaps even drivebender?

 

Depending how 'solid' this needs to be, there are some very highly rated laptop HDD's. They're always designed with more resilience to being moved than anything else.

They're also usually quieter and use basically the same power as an SSD. For example, all the WD-blue laptop drives have "Shock Guard".

 

May I dig deeper and ask WHY no moving parts is so important? In the case of SSD vs HDD for this use, reliability, is IMO, not the answer. a dying HDD will give warning (usually) an SSD? no hope, Its dead.

 

Is this a write rarely, read often NAS?


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#13 fobbitty

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Posted 02 June 2016 - 08:31 PM

Thanks for the link Tick! Very helpful.

 

MS. The basic job for this unit is to hold EVERYTHING that I currently have on DropBox (I've got Scottish blood in me!). It will be referenced from time to time, but not accessed constantly. Last time I relied on spinning platters, they failed me greatly. Sure, warranty replaced them, but much data was lost. Figured non-spinning things would be better for me :-)

 

Cheers

 

Fobbitty



#14 fobbitty

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Posted 03 June 2016 - 08:38 PM

Just received an email from Synology regarding the DS416Sliim. Apparently only the units driven by Intel or Annapurna CPUs support TRIM.

 

This cuts out the DS416Slim, but allegedly the DS416 will cut the mustard.

 

Cheers

 

fobbitty



#15 Mac Dude

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 11:30 AM

Thanks for the link Tick! Very helpful.

 

MS. The basic job for this unit is to hold EVERYTHING that I currently have on DropBox (I've got Scottish blood in me!). It will be referenced from time to time, but not accessed constantly. Last time I relied on spinning platters, they failed me greatly. Sure, warranty replaced them, but much data was lost. Figured non-spinning things would be better for me :-)

 

Cheers

 

Fobbitty

 

There are a LOT of spinning platters running happily and reliably all over the globe.  As a point of interest, I've had a higher percentage of SSDs I've owned die than I have had regular hard drives :)

 

Putting the hardware aside for the moment, whatever you put in place does not guarantee that you won't suffer data loss - you need a backup strategy not just a NAS.

 

Oh, and mirroring doesn't count as a backup strategy - if you accidentally delete a file or if a file becomes corrupt it will be deleted or become corrupted on the mirror as well.

 

EDIT : You may want to dig up a 6 year study by Google on the reliability of SSDs.

 

From the report - 

 

Flash drives are less attractive when it comes to their error rates. More than 20% of flash drives develop uncorrectable errors in a four year period, 30-80% develop bad blocks and 2-7% of them develop bad chips. In comparison, previous work on HDDs reports that only 3.5% of disks in a large population developed bad sectors in a 32 months period – a low number when taking into account that the number of sectors on a hard disk is orders of magnitudes larger than the number of either blocks or chips on a solid state drive, and that sectors are smaller than blocks, so a failure is less severe. In summary, we find that the flash drives in our study experience significantly lower replacement rates (within their rated lifetime) than hard disk drives. On the downside, they experience significantly higher rates of uncorrectable errors than hard disk drives.

 


Edited by Mac Dude, 05 June 2016 - 01:56 PM.

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#16 Rybags

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 01:57 PM

For same or less you could do Raid1 Nas with 2 x SSHDs and get a normal USB attached drive to back them up to.

You might even save a little bit on the Nas as you woudn't need Trim support.

 

A mirrored solution using SSD would be highly questionable anyway.  Your likely cause of failure would be high write cycles and both drives would arrive at their likely failure point at the same time.

You'd probably be better off with Raid0 - the life extension on offer there is that each drive should have it's read/write sector count roughly halved.



#17 fobbitty

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Posted 05 June 2016 - 08:49 PM

OK, so I might be beating down the wrong path with SSDs.

I'd spent a long time working on storage systems in days gone by. Figured that the latest would be the greatest.

Might keep it simple for now and get a 4 bay "something" with a few mechanical drives. At least I will be able to do a rebuild should one die.

Thanks for all of your opinions and insights, I really appreciate them.

Cheers

Fobbitty

#18 Master_Scythe

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 10:26 AM

OK, so I might be beating down the wrong path with SSDs.

I'd spent a long time working on storage systems in days gone by. Figured that the latest would be the greatest.

Might keep it simple for now and get a 4 bay "something" with a few mechanical drives. At least I will be able to do a rebuild should one die.

Thanks for all of your opinions and insights, I really appreciate them.

Cheers

Fobbitty

 

It's why we're here :)

How about you go overkill on safety, and just smash some enterprise level drives on there. Or, close to it and get some 'RED' or 'NAS' drives?

 

650~1TB NAS drives are often single platter, so only '1 moving surface' and '1 read head' to make you feel better inside :)

 

$84 Will get you a 750GB RED (nas rated) HDD.

http://www.umart.com...id=2&sid=203923

They have a nice 'cool' slow spin speed, but are very fast thanks to being single platter.

 

4 of those, in RAID6, would be more stability than you could poke a stick at.

You'd get 1.4TB of space, the ability to lose 50% of your drives before you suffered any data loss, and the cost would be quite cheap.

 

If it were me, I'd be getting:

A Proliant Microserver ($280)

4 of those RED drives. ($336)

 

Then installing OpenMediaVault (or Ubuntu, or FreeNAS, or paying an additional $59 USD for UnRAID basic, whatever flavour floats your boat)

OMV is one of the friendliest and most polished 'dedicated OS' out there though.

 

Then I'd be going RAID6, and calling it a day!


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#19 Rybags

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 02:02 PM

Fewer read heads = slower not faster.  2 surfaces and 3 or 4 read heads mean each cylinder is a whole lot bigger and that bigger chunk of sectors can be gotten at without the delay of stepping the heads.



#20 Master_Scythe

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Posted 10 June 2016 - 02:10 PM

Fewer read heads = slower not faster.  2 surfaces and 3 or 4 read heads mean each cylinder is a whole lot bigger and that bigger chunk of sectors can be gotten at without the delay of stepping the heads.

 

Only during sequential read.

In random, each layer has to wait for its 'turn'


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