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GTX 970 Lawsuit


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#21 Master_Scythe

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 01:44 PM

I'd agree with where we disagree :P

 

To me, and using common online terms, I've always seen FEATURES as a list of 'what the product is' and TECH SPECS as what the product contains.

 

for example, lets take, say, a mobile phone:

Features: Hex-Core 1.8ghz Processor, 3GB of RAM, 32GB Storage!

Tech Specs: Qualcomm Snapdragon 616, 3GB DDR3L Memory, 32GB eMMC (28GB Available)

 

For me, tech specs has always been about listing what collection of parts go into making up a device.

 

I dont want to be told:

Features: 100KW car!

Tech Specs: Engine!

that's not a tech spec to me.

 

You don't buy a fridge and expect the make/model/configuration of the compressor to be spelled out.

 

Well, yes, I do. I honestly don't think I'd buy any goods that didn't tell me.

And they usually do. If you look at the back it'll say "220v~240v AC 500W 50Hz" or such. Not just "Fridge Motor, makes shit cold yo".

OK sure, I dont know where the caps are made, or if the bulb is a japanese globe or a chinese globe; but there is a point of ' being sensible' to consider here; and cooling my food is the key function I care about.

 

 

Jumping back to the car analogy,

if I asked what an engine can handle, Id want to be told.

I wouldn't be OK with "Well the CAR makes 100kw".... I didn't ask what "the car" makes.... I asked what the engine is built to.

 

 

In the same sense, the graphics card manufacturer didn't promise, and the gamers didn't ask; "Can this Card render a 4GB texture at speed XYZ?"

They promised "This GPU has 4GB of addressable memory on it". And it does.

I know your hobbies :P Unsolder the chip and tell me it doesn't.

There are 4GB worth of IC's on there. All active. All work.

 

As I said, if we attacked every manufacturer just because their product wasn't as fast as competitor X when built around the same specs, we'd be out of companies really quick. lol.

 

By settling, they've made a lot of people happy, which is good. It ensures a product will be sold to them in the future.

If however, you think we're naive enough not to expect the next generations to go up in price by $25USD to compensate....

It might be as simple as no longer including a half height bracket; they'll cut costs somewhere to compensate (or raise the price).

 

As I said, I get it, people were Irked because they feel they were promised something they didn't get.

 

I just find it odd that we accepted the hissy fit, based around what, IMO, we can only call sub-par benchmarking. Because the parts they listed, were all there.

 

I've never seen such a stink kicked up over a bottleneck.

Look out Motherboard manufacturers, you're all guilty somewhere in that data stream of being a bottleneck!


Edited by Master_Scythe, 02 August 2016 - 01:47 PM.

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#22 SquallStrife

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 02:52 PM

for example, lets take, say, a mobile phone:
Features: Hex-Core 1.8ghz Processor, 3GB of RAM, 32GB Storage!
Tech Specs: Qualcomm Snapdragon 616, 3GB DDR3L Memory, 32GB eMMC (28GB Available)
 
For me, tech specs has always been about listing what collection of parts go into making up a device.


I think that's splitting hairs. What does the former tell you that the latter doesn't, which is of any importance to the usage of the product for reading e-books?

For your Kobo, if the box said "4GB SD storage, 1GB available". What's the use of that to a non-nerd?

Do you really think the box should say "4GB SD storage, but only 1GB is available because when you manufacture products at large volumes like we do, sometimes suppliers BLA BLA BLA BLA but you can try your luck expanding it by booting a Linux box BLA BLA BLA BLA BLA".

(I mean, I know YOU think that'd be fine, but remember that these things are sold to normies.)
 

I dont want to be told:
Features: 100KW car!
Tech Specs: Engine!
that's not a tech spec to me.


That's not what I'm suggesting. In your example, you suggested that the vendor should spell out how the engine /could/ perform if you modified it away from the delivered configuration.

The vendor has no impetus, legal, ethical, or for the sake of your own curiosity as a car-person, to wax about what the product could be, they're concerned with what it is as it stands. If you want to know more, or do your own research, that's your prerogative.
 

Well, yes, I do. I honestly don't think I'd buy any goods that didn't tell me.
And they usually do. If you look at the back it'll say "220v~240v AC 500W 50Hz" or such. Not just "Fridge Motor, makes shit cold yo".


Again, not what I'm suggesting.

"220v~240v AC 500W 50Hz" is the specification for the product, "the refrigerator", of which the compressor is a component. The amount of current the compressor uses is a useless figure to the consumer, because they don't just plug in the compressor, they also plug in the light, ice/water dispenser, etc. (I know those are minor in the scheme of things, just trying to illustrate the importance of 'the product' versus its parts).

What they won't tell you (nor should they need to tell you) is stuff like "Actually this fridge's compressor could cool a much bigger volume of air, but it's limited by the chassis we've built it in to." as per your car motor+turbo example.
 

OK sure, I dont know where the caps are made, or if the bulb is a japanese globe or a chinese globe; but there is a point of ' being sensible' to consider here; and cooling my food is the key function I care about.


Likewise, for that e-Reader, reading books is the key function that consumers will care about, that the manufacturer uses a 4GB part for whatever reason is of zero consequence for that purpose.
 

Jumping back to the car analogy,
if I asked what an engine can handle, Id want to be told.
I wouldn't be OK with "Well the CAR makes 100kw".... I didn't ask what "the car" makes.... I asked what the engine is built to.


And it's your prerogative to ask, but the vendor only *has* to guarantee what it will do in their delivered configuration.

A particular person at a particular dealership might talk to you motorhead-to-motorhead about "what this baby could do with a few tweaks", but officially, the product, the motor vehicle, as they deliver it, does X.

Edited by SquallStrife, 02 August 2016 - 02:55 PM.

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#23 Master_Scythe

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 03:15 PM

And it's your prerogative to ask, but the vendor only *has* to guarantee what it will do in their delivered configuration.
 

 

My point EXACTLY!

The consumer got the exact card they paid for.

The card had 4GB of memory, and can handle 4GB textures.

 

If the consumer didn't ask "Can I fill the buffer to the max with 4K textures and expect the RAM to operate at its maximum data rate?"

Then oh well, so sad.

You got what you paid for.

Didn't ask enough questions? SUFFER.

 

 

As for my Kobo,

The core purpose of my e-book (besides displaying the book) is to STORE the book.

So YES I, and I'd imagine a lot of consumers, would like to know they have 4X the storage available if they so choose.

I imagine the size limit is partly because it was already marketed as 1GB, before 1GB cards were obsolete\more expensive.

 

 

That's not what I'm suggesting. In your example, you suggested that the vendor should spell out how the engine /could/ perform if you modified it away from the delivered configuration.

Not necessarily. (though I can see how it came out that way).

I just want to be told the part, in lay, consumer, terms.

 

eg:

Features: 100KW

Tech Specs: Engine

Tech Specs: EJ20 Engine

 

or

 

Features: 1GB storage for your books!

Tech Specs: 1GB storage <- how is that ANY more technical?

Tech Specs: Internal 4GB flash memory

 

 

You keep suggesting I want to know how the PRODUCT can be modified or tweaked; No.

I don't even want to know how the individual parts can be modified; No.

I just want to know what the parts ARE.

 

I don't want to walk into a shop and be another one of those fuckheads who "Needs a part for my nans car, its silver and its going WHIRRR when we accelerate"

And while those people are many, and widespread, the average person would prefer not to look like such a prat either, assuming the knowledge is there.

 

 

In this day and age, if you didnt tell the people WTF is in, say, their phone,  its the difference between ending up with a nice big Lithium fireball on my bedside table, and successfully charging my phone.

"What, I can't put my mobile phone battery into my RC car charger? Why? They both say 'Battery'?"

 

I've had a customer charge a phone battery with their car charger. Luckily it just swelled, and didn't go boom when he tried to flatten it back out.


Edited by Master_Scythe, 02 August 2016 - 03:16 PM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

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#24 SquallStrife

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 03:33 PM

So YES I, and I'd imagine a lot of consumers, would like to know they have 4X the storage available if they so choose.


There is probably a reason why they partition off 1GB. I've listed the possible reasons.

What Kobo wouldn't want is people "unlocking hidden storage" then wondering why some of their books are corrupt. They protect themselves from that by stating it's 1GB. That's what they've tested the product at, that's how the underwriter tested it.

Besides, disclosing "bonus extra storage, just use gParted!" would just land them with a pile of shagged tablets because of idiots. I know I'd keep it quiet.

I imagine the size limit is partly because it was already marketed as 1GB, before 1GB cards were obsolete\more expensive.


Could be. Could be the using-cards-with-faults-over-1GB thing. Only Kobo knows for sure.
 

I just want to know what the parts ARE.


And you found that by opening the product up. Problem solved.

For day-to-day use, it's really really not important.

In this day and age, if you didnt tell the people WTF is in, say, their phone,  its the difference between ending up with a nice big Lithium fireball on my bedside table, and successfully charging my phone.
"What, I can't put my mobile phone battery into my RC car charger? Why? They both say 'Battery'?"


Hence "Only charge your phone with 'Made for (brand)' certified chargers and cables."

Ignore it at your peril.
 

I've had a customer charge a phone battery with their car charger. Luckily it just swelled, and didn't go boom when he tried to flatten it back out.


People that do these things deserve everything they get.
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#25 Master_Scythe

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 03:41 PM

 

So YES I, and I'd imagine a lot of consumers, would like to know they have 4X the storage available if they so choose.


There is probably a reason why they partition off 1GB. I've listed the possible reasons.

What Kobo wouldn't want is people "unlocking hidden storage" then wondering why some of their books are corrupt. They protect themselves from that by stating it's 1GB. That's what they've tested the product at, that's how the underwriter tested it.

Besides, disclosing "bonus extra storage, just use gParted!" would just land them with a pile of shagged tablets because of idiots. I know I'd keep it quiet.

I imagine the size limit is partly because it was already marketed as 1GB, before 1GB cards were obsolete\more expensive.


Could be. Could be the using-cards-with-faults-over-1GB thing. Only Kobo knows for sure.
 

I just want to know what the parts ARE.


And you found that by opening the product up. Problem solved.

For day-to-day use, it's really really not important.

In this day and age, if you didnt tell the people WTF is in, say, their phone,  its the difference between ending up with a nice big Lithium fireball on my bedside table, and successfully charging my phone.
"What, I can't put my mobile phone battery into my RC car charger? Why? They both say 'Battery'?"


Hence "Only charge your phone with 'Made for (brand)' certified chargers and cables."

Ignore it at your peril.
 

I've had a customer charge a phone battery with their car charger. Luckily it just swelled, and didn't go boom when he tried to flatten it back out.


People that do these things deserve everything they get.

 

 

Just like people who bought GTX970's before sufficient testing was complete for their specialist use.

 

Still has all the hardware they were advertised.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#26 SquallStrife

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 04:05 PM

I also don't see the problem with the GTX 970 RAM thing.

Wasn't the bigger issue that the advertised number of ROPs was incorrect?
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#27 Master_Scythe

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 04:07 PM

I also don't see the problem with the GTX 970 RAM thing.

Wasn't the bigger issue that the advertised number of ROPs was incorrect?

 

From a processing standpoint, probably.

From the noise the internet made; I'd bet 99% of people didnt even know that was incorrect.


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"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#28 gamble

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 01:54 AM

Probably, many bought 970 right after reading reviews.  The last slow .5g was not discovered right away.  Those that bought for sli or running higher custom setting or res would be disappointed to notice choppy or stuttering with candy turned up.  They would be like why am I seeing this...  Many only buy once every 3 years or so too.  Some games even at 1080p are pushing higher ram requirements now, hence those that dont upgrade yearly might start to feel the pain.  

 

Now, after this was discovered and known, those that bought the card should have known what they were getting.  

 

All Im saying is that those that bought early might have gotten bit by the not knowing that the product was limited to 3.5g.  Those that did purchase after that time frame of discovery, probably should not get a check.  But, you would think the packaging would have changed to reflect after the problem was discovered too.  


Edited by gamble, 03 August 2016 - 01:56 AM.

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#29 RenascentMisanthropy

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Posted 04 March 2017 - 06:04 PM

970 plays skyrim on ultra everything.

 

Couldn't ask for more.


Slycake i7 6700 + cyrorig r1 ultimate, asus z170m-plus, 16gb corsair 3200, evga gtx 970 4gb, 256gb m2 sammy pro, 1tb sshd, corsair cs650m.





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