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#21 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 03:13 PM

 

It really seems to be, to my eyes.
"The copper is good enough, use it, it clearly works"
"No, its not good enough, please replace it with something better and more reliable"


Nobody, not even Mr Turnbull when he was shadow communications minister, suggested that VDSL2 would be the endgame, but rather it's a measure so that people on ADSL2+ can get reasonable speed in a year or three, instead of a decade or more.

Sure the argument is based on dollars, but its still how it feels to me.
"This works, why move to something better?"
..... because its better? no?


We would always move to something better in the long run, the idea of FTTN is to get more coverage sooner. Cheaper is debatable, a sweetener at best.

 

 

It was never portrayed that way in the media, or if it was, it was done poorly.

 

The two arguments I've watched time and time\read time and time again, was that: "We need fiber to the home, the copper is too poor to guarantee a reliable connection"

and the counter was always "It works now, it'll continue to work in the future"

 

If the REASON behind that was to speed deployment\coverage, well that would make sense, but the argument, at least the tens of ones I've seen has never been "How can we get low to medium speed internet to people ASAP" it was always "Why should we (or shouldn't we) use Fiber to the premises?" and the counter was always "Coppers already there".

 

Eh, whatever, its off topic, you're probably right, but the TV has made a poor case portraying it that way.


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#22 SquallStrife

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 03:25 PM

It was never portrayed that way in the media, or if it was, it was done poorly.


Media coverage of the NBN has been patchy at best. Worse, you've been exposed to tech-forum coverage, which is mostly selfish, entitled nerds whose nickle-and-dime-minmax lobes would be offended by "only" getting 78Mbps when their neighbour gets 80. 

The two arguments I've watched time and time\read time and time again, was that: "We need fiber to the home, the copper is too poor to guarantee a reliable connection"
and the counter was always "It works now, it'll continue to work in the future"


There's fragments of truth in all of it, sadly. Some people's copper is in a bad state, other people's copper is in a good state, and can deliver hundreds of megabits per second if leveraged effectively.

If the REASON behind that was to speed deployment\coverage, well that would make sense, but the argument, at least the tens of ones I've seen has never been "How can we get low to medium speed internet to people ASAP" it was always "Why should we (or shouldn't we) use Fiber to the premises?" and the counter was always "Coppers already there".


The thing is, that's correct. The copper IS already there, and that IS the argument for leveraging it. Use it where it's up to scratch, and mediate/replace with fibre where it's not.

Eh, whatever, its off topic, you're probably right, but the TV has made a poor case portraying it that way.


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#23 ArchangelOfTheLamb

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 03:54 PM

Good on you for wanting to make the switch to Linux. I made the switch last year after I realised that Windows 10 was full of sneaky 'features' that behave very much like malware. Plus, for the highly security-conscious (read: paranoid), Linux is a much better choice because it uses much simpler code that seems to have fewer vulnerabilities. Furthermore, given that it's not as popular as Windows, much less effort is spent developing new exploits and malware for Linux than what is spent on trying to hack Windows. Finally, I find that Windows often doesn't do as it's told and gives cryptic error messages that aren't explained very well in user documentation and on support forums. This then requires one to trawl through large chunks of system logs and memory dumps in order to isolate and debug the problem. On the other hand, I find that the error messages that Linux gives are usually pretty self-explanatory and that the large volume of user-maintained user documentation that exists for most Linux distros resolves most issues that one might encounter.

 

If you're looking for a system that's designed with IT-illiterate users in mind and want to play games and use the applications that are the most popular and widespread, then stick with Windows, but remember that you'll have a cunt of a time trying to stop Microsoft from grabbing your personal information and personal data and sharing it with its advertising partners. This seems to be their new way of enhancing their profits and even if you turn off the 'diagnostic' and 'ad personalisation' features, you can count on Microsoft sneakily re-enabling these 'features' (or sneakily introducing new ones) in their next updates. As I said, Windows exhibits a lot of behaviour that one would find in viruses and malware.

 

But if you want an OS that you can build and customise from the ground up, that does exactly as it's told provided it's set up properly and that is built from source code that is publicly available and that has been reviewed and scrutinised by many experts from all over the world, then make the switch to Linux. If you've never used Linux, there will be a learning curve, but I found the journey very worthwhile. Installing and customising ArchLinux taught me a lot about how operating systems work and dramatically improved my IT skills from where they were when I first made the switch. I also haven't looked back ever since I made the switch - I now use either ArchLinux or Kali as my primary operating systems (depending on what I'm doing) and I keep Windows in its nice little VirtualBox and only let it out to play when I want to run something that only runs on Windows, or when I'm developing something for a Windows platform. Running Windows in a VM means that I can take snapshots and go back to them if any update gives me grief. It also means that I can easily test new software and (worst-case scenario) kill it without losing my main OS.

 

I'm not going to pretend that it was easy and simple to switch to Linux, but from your other posts it seems to me like you're into coding and aren't afraid of learning how to solve complex IT issues. If I'm right about this, then not only will you probably be able to set up ArchLinux more easily than someone with no coding knowledge, but you'll probably fall in love with it and find that it's a developer's playground.

 

The best place to start learning about ArchLinux is probably the Wiki page - you can access it from http://www.archlinux.org . The Installation Guide and Beginner's Guide contain all the information that you need to get a basic ArchLinux installation running. Other pages cover the installation of a window manager and desktop environment, which you'll need to install in order to get a graphical user interface.

 

I'm also in the process of writing some user documentation on how to install ArchLinux with an encrypted root partition - I'm doing this for an assignment, but will post it online after I've submitted it. If you watch this space, I'll post a link here when it's done.

 

I've also set up a number of ArchLinux systems for learning, testing and development purposes in the last few months and have probably run into (and had to resolve) many of the common pitfalls. I've experimented with the Gnome, KDE Plasma and MATE as desktop environments and am happy to help point you in the right direction if you get stuck with anything.

 

Good luck! :-)


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#24 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:08 PM

 

If you're looking for a system that's designed with IT-illiterate users in mind and want to play games and use the applications that are the most popular and widespread, then stick with Windows, but remember that you'll have a cunt of a time trying to stop Microsoft from grabbing your personal information and personal data and sharing it with its advertising partners. This seems to be their new way of enhancing their profits and even if you turn off the 'diagnostic' and 'ad personalisation' features, you can count on Microsoft sneakily re-enabling these 'features' (or sneakily introducing new ones) in their next updates. As I said, Windows exhibits a lot of behaviour that one would find in viruses and malware.

 

(quickly, who were you again? I remember this is a new account of an old user......)

 

This is why safer-networking (our beloved SpybotSD) released Anti-Becon!

Works wonders.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#25 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:10 PM

Good on you for wanting to make the switch to Linux. I made the switch last year after I realised that Windows 10 was full of sneaky 'features' that behave very much like malware. Plus, for the highly security-conscious (read: paranoid), I find that Windows often doesn't do as it's told and gives cryptic error messages that aren't explained very well in user documentation and on support forums.

 

If you're looking for a system that's designed with IT-illiterate users in mind and want to play games and use the applications that are the most popular and widespread, then stick with Windows,

 

But if you want an OS that you can build and customise from the ground up, that does exactly as it's told provided it's set up properly and that is built from source code that is publicly available and that has been reviewed and scrutinised by many experts from all over the world, then make the switch to Linux.

 

I'm not going to pretend that it was easy and simple to switch to Linux, but from your other posts it seems to me like you're into coding and aren't afraid of learning how to solve complex IT issues. If I'm right about this, then not only will you probably be able to set up ArchLinux more easily than someone with no coding knowledge, but you'll probably fall in love with it and find that it's a developer's playground.

 

The best place to start learning about ArchLinux is probably the Wiki page - you can access it from http://www.archlinux.org . The Installation Guide and Beginner's Guide contain all the information that you need to get a basic ArchLinux installation running. Other pages cover the installation of a window manager and desktop environment, which you'll need to install in order to get a graphical user interface.

 

I'm also in the process of writing some user documentation on how to install ArchLinux with an encrypted root partition - I'm doing this for an assignment, but will post it online after I've submitted it. If you watch this space, I'll post a link here when it's done.

 

Good luck! :-)

Haha! Take that Scythe! And yeah you got it pretty spot on with the "into coding and aren't afraid of learning how to solve complex IT problems", thanks for all the info too, really helpful :) and who needs GUIs? GUIs are for peasants!


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#26 SquallStrife

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:23 PM

Linux is a much better choice because it uses much simpler code that seems to have fewer vulnerabilities.


Remember that shellshock existed in bash since 1989. This mindset is a myth.

Furthermore, given that it's not as popular as Windows, much less effort is spent developing new exploits and malware for Linux than what is spent on trying to hack Windows


This is bollocks. Web servers mostly run Linux, can you think of a higher value target?

Haha! Take that Scythe!


Good luck getting help in future if you're going to be a cunt towards people.
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#27 Rybags

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:33 PM

AOTL is Emporer Matej - he had his comeback intro back in March.

 

Who needs a GUI?

Why not just go the whole hog and go back to DOS.  Or maybe CP/M, seeing as MS stole most of it's ideas for it's functionality.

 

GUIs can be a PITA for some things, like it can be orders of magnitude faster to do certain repetitive admin type stuff using batch mode but if you really must insist on not using a GUI then you may as well do the old school thing.

 

FFS, the things have only been around for 30 years anyway.  Much of my early computing was without GUI and I've done years of mainframe stuff which is largely text based on terminal or terminal emulator.

 

See how productive you can be - go cold turkey for a couple of months then come back and tell us how it all went.



#28 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:36 PM

Good luck getting help in future if you're going to be a cunt towards people.

was joke....

 

See how productive you can be - go cold turkey for a couple of months then come back and tell us how it all went.

 

I shall return with a great and mighty beard!


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#29 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:39 PM

 

Good on you for wanting to make the switch to Linux. I made the switch last year after I realised that Windows 10 was full of sneaky 'features' that behave very much like malware. Plus, for the highly security-conscious (read: paranoid), I find that Windows often doesn't do as it's told and gives cryptic error messages that aren't explained very well in user documentation and on support forums.

 

If you're looking for a system that's designed with IT-illiterate users in mind and want to play games and use the applications that are the most popular and widespread, then stick with Windows,

 

But if you want an OS that you can build and customise from the ground up, that does exactly as it's told provided it's set up properly and that is built from source code that is publicly available and that has been reviewed and scrutinised by many experts from all over the world, then make the switch to Linux.

 

I'm not going to pretend that it was easy and simple to switch to Linux, but from your other posts it seems to me like you're into coding and aren't afraid of learning how to solve complex IT issues. If I'm right about this, then not only will you probably be able to set up ArchLinux more easily than someone with no coding knowledge, but you'll probably fall in love with it and find that it's a developer's playground.

 

The best place to start learning about ArchLinux is probably the Wiki page - you can access it from http://www.archlinux.org . The Installation Guide and Beginner's Guide contain all the information that you need to get a basic ArchLinux installation running. Other pages cover the installation of a window manager and desktop environment, which you'll need to install in order to get a graphical user interface.

 

I'm also in the process of writing some user documentation on how to install ArchLinux with an encrypted root partition - I'm doing this for an assignment, but will post it online after I've submitted it. If you watch this space, I'll post a link here when it's done.

 

Good luck! :-)

Haha! Take that Scythe! And yeah you got it pretty spot on with the "into coding and aren't afraid of learning how to solve complex IT problems", thanks for all the info too, really helpful :) and who needs GUIs? GUIs are for peasants!

 

 

What am I taking?

At no point did I try to pit one OS against the other, except of course old windows vs new windows.

 

And about the only thing I tried to explain to you, admittedly harshly, because it frustrates me, that being negative for the purpose of being negative, will cost you in the long run.

I was that way for a long time, I had a friend wake me up to it.

You CAN'T expect to be liked\helped\respected in the world if your opinion gets formed by "Feeling" rather than "Fact".

 

If you'd have said "I hate the new start menu and Explorer, so I installed Classic Shell to replace it" I'd have said, Oh, Ok, makes sense, not everyone likes the ultra modern windows look. I'm not a fan either.

But refusing it because "I personally dont like it" why? "Because!" is just ignorant.

 

I use Ubuntu as my daily driver too.

But all I play is DOTA2 which installs fine on STEAM on Ubuntu.

 

I'm proabably one of the few here who use a Blackberry as my daily phone, and have used Ubuntu and Firefox OS on my mobile also.

I even like Meego when Symbian went the way of the dodo.

I'm far from thinking "the big boy wins".

 

I'll just sit here and smile smugly, in 3 years time, when the latest version of DirectX requires windows 10.

You go to play your new game, or use an OS that 'the world' is now so used to, its common sense, and you're stuck 'learning' 3 years late.

 

Windows 10 is even supporting linux BASH shell; so I dont know what you're on about for the code-friendly side either.

 

GUI's are faster.

When I was blind and used a braile pad sometimes, command line was faster; but with semi-working eyes again, GUI is king.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#30 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:47 PM

GUI's are faster.

When I was blind and used a braile pad sometimes, command line was faster; but with semi-working eyes again, GUI is king.

responses like that make me wish there was tone in text posts, just to clarify it was sarcasm, sorry to put the wrong thought in peoples head ._.


Do not go gentle into that good night,
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Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

#31 Jeruselem

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Posted 06 September 2016 - 04:56 PM

 

GUI's are faster.

When I was blind and used a braile pad sometimes, command line was faster; but with semi-working eyes again, GUI is king.

responses like that make me wish there was tone in text posts, just to clarify it was sarcasm, sorry to put the wrong thought in peoples head ._.

 

 

English is not the best (written) language for tone.


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#32 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 07:28 AM

 

 

GUI's are faster.

When I was blind and used a braile pad sometimes, command line was faster; but with semi-working eyes again, GUI is king.

responses like that make me wish there was tone in text posts, just to clarify it was sarcasm, sorry to put the wrong thought in peoples head ._.

 

 

English is not the best (written) language for tone.

 

you make a fair point


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#33 Jeruselem

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 11:17 AM

Worst ever Distro = Gentoo!


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#34 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 11:42 AM

Worst ever Distro = Gentoo!

that right here is gonna get you killed by a lot of Gentoo Master Race members :p


Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

#35 Jeruselem

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 12:14 PM

 

Worst ever Distro = Gentoo!

that right here is gonna get you killed by a lot of Gentoo Master Race members :p

 

I've killed a gentoo system just trying install firefox.


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#36 Master_Scythe

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 12:59 PM

 

 

Worst ever Distro = Gentoo!

that right here is gonna get you killed by a lot of Gentoo Master Race members :p

 

I've killed a gentoo system just trying install firefox.

 

 +1 to that.

 

There is a reason Ubuntu is the most popular.

And there are tens, if not hundreds of 'appliance' projects based on Ubuntu, or at least Debian.

 

Using another Distro is like "wanting to install Windows" then downloading ReactOS (freeware Win32)

 

Or wanting to Learn Mac OSX, and Installing Darwin Unix.....

 

Yeah we can still link some of the skills, but my god, take the hard path often do we?


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#37 Xen

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 01:44 PM

 

 

 

Worst ever Distro = Gentoo!

that right here is gonna get you killed by a lot of Gentoo Master Race members :p

 

I've killed a gentoo system just trying install firefox.

 

 +1 to that.

 

There is a reason Ubuntu is the most popular.

And there are tens, if not hundreds of 'appliance' projects based on Ubuntu, or at least Debian.

 

Using another Distro is like "wanting to install Windows" then downloading ReactOS (freeware Win32)

 

Or wanting to Learn Mac OSX, and Installing Darwin Unix.....

 

Yeah we can still link some of the skills, but my god, take the hard path often do we?

 

 

I think you're really discounting other distro's with that, the distro is only as good as its underlying components.

 

OpenSUSE and Fedora are on par with the Debian variants.



#38 Master_Scythe

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 01:49 PM

 

 

 

 

Worst ever Distro = Gentoo!

that right here is gonna get you killed by a lot of Gentoo Master Race members :p

 

I've killed a gentoo system just trying install firefox.

 

 +1 to that.

 

There is a reason Ubuntu is the most popular.

And there are tens, if not hundreds of 'appliance' projects based on Ubuntu, or at least Debian.

 

Using another Distro is like "wanting to install Windows" then downloading ReactOS (freeware Win32)

 

Or wanting to Learn Mac OSX, and Installing Darwin Unix.....

 

Yeah we can still link some of the skills, but my god, take the hard path often do we?

 

 

I think you're really discounting other distro's with that, the distro is only as good as its underlying components.

 

OpenSUSE and Fedora are on par with the Debian variants.

 

 

Only as much as Im discounting ReactOS vs WIndows, or Darwin vs Mac.

 

They work, but different uses.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#39 SonOfNoddy

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 02:35 PM

if I join in on this debate it'll just turn into a an argument and i'll end it with "yeah but I just personally don't like it", but yeah your points both ways are fair, but i've been told for 15 years of my life, "why do you always do things the hard way?", and I reckon i'm not stopping now :p


Edited by SonOfNoddy, 07 September 2016 - 02:35 PM.

Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

#40 Jeruselem

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Posted 07 September 2016 - 03:56 PM

if I join in on this debate it'll just turn into a an argument and i'll end it with "yeah but I just personally don't like it", but yeah your points both ways are fair, but i've been told for 15 years of my life, "why do you always do things the hard way?", and I reckon i'm not stopping now :p

 

Been watching a lot of videos about Distros and boy a lot them have a pet hates about one distro or another.


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