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Upscaling dvd movies


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#1 ed12371v

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 09:05 PM

Hi Everyone,

 

I am enjoying blu rays at present but cannot get some of my dvd movies in blu ray plus I don't want to have to buy again if I can change them to better quality.

 

I have DVD Fab version 9.3.1.2. I have been backing up and changing my blu rays to AVI with this program. It cuts out all the bells and whistles but keeps a great looking / sounding blu ray movie converted to AVI at around 20gigs (size) depending on original size, which I save to a 6TB hard drive.

 

I have finished all my blu rays and now want to upscale and convert my dvds to a better quality.

I can use the same program and with using full "best quality" settings the following changes are made to the dvd movie:

 

Video:

Resolution from 720 x 576 to 1920 x 1080

Frame Rate from 25 frames/sec to 30 frames/sec

File size from 4GB to 26GB

File format from dvd to avi

Total Bitrate from 9,800kbps to 30,640kbps 

Data Rate from 9,352kbps to 30,000kbps

 

Sound: 

Bit Rate 448kbps to 640kbps

Channels 6 to Channels 6

Audio Sample Rate 48kHz to 48kHz

 

Time to Convert 1hr 50mins

 

My questions?

Even though it's not from a blu ray source would the picture look very close to blu ray type quality?

 

Could I get the same picture quality with lower settings and smaller file size?

 

I'm not worried about running out of hard drive space just yet but if lower settings yield the same pic quality at say half the size then I would prefer to redo them and save space for future use?

 

Making a 1 gb or 4 gb file size into a 30 gb file size sounds great but unless the dvd fab program can fill in the blanks during the conversion it's just a bigger file full of hot air, correct?

 

Many Thanx in advance for any advice.

 



#2 Rybags

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 10:22 PM

People report improvement by upscaling e.g. from Bluray players that upscale DVD content - but the fact is it's an interpolation algorithm and won't be as good as Bluray 1080 material.  But still, better than scabby 720x576 (or 480 if it's NTSC source).

 

If you're doing conversion yourself of old DVDs you own, a few things to consider:

 

- don't bother going to and from 25/30 FPS (generally PAL/NTSC).  You are best off to just leave it at whatever rate it was at originally.  You end up with choppy video because of how the conversion is done.  The fact of the matter is that video is at it's best if it was recorded to begin with at the rate it's intended to be shown at.

But in reality a lot of old stuff was done in film at 24 FPS (cinema spec).  The telecine process to get it to NTSC has flaws but works to a point.  What happens is NTSC is actually slightly under 60 FPS (but we can just say 60), and you have a situation where the 24 FPS source is replicated in a 3:2 pulldown process, which temporally spreads the 24 frames as evenly as possible to the 60 to be shown on TV.

 

The problem in doing that with PAL is that since there's only 1 frame/second difference it'd be a case of replicating every frame twice except one in 24 three times to give 50 FPS.  So the solution in going from film to PAL will often be to just speed it up and pitch adjust the audio.

 

- next thing.  AVI, old style Divx or Xvid.  Sort of dead, redundant, superceded.  Not worth the bother.

Most decent modern Bluray players or USB equipped Digital tuners will play H.264 encoded files, which you usually see around the net as .MKV or .MP4 files.

 

The hierarchy is - DVD is MPEG2, Divx encodes will usually be nearly twice as space efficient as MPEG2 video.  H.264 MP4 will be about twice as efficient as that again.  And H.265 will be double that again, but the problem with H.265 at the moment is that few devices play it satisfactorily.

 

 

Bottom line of the whole situation - use H.264 or equivalent encoding to MP4 or MKV files.  Don't mess with the frame rate.  Don't expect upscaling miracles.  In fact it's often better to leave at lower res and let the BR player do it's thing with it.



#3 ed12371v

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 10:34 PM

Yeah Thanx mate.

The AVI Conversion I use is actually H.264. 

 

The AVI conversion gives me 3 choices XVID, DVIX Or H.264

 

I get the frame rate advice, thank you.

 

So with a 22gb file difference (dvd 4gb to avi converted movie 26gb) what is going into the extra 22 gb?

 

Surely there must be some significant type of improvement?

 

BTW. I'm in Australia and or Tvs are PAL.

 

Regards Ed.


Edited by ed12371v, 08 December 2016 - 10:36 PM.


#4 Rybags

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 10:45 PM

Another thing - the "filetype" AVI, MP4, MKV etc.  That's actually the "container format" and the codecs (what does the decompression to allow display) are XVid, H.264 etc.

Generally if you're doing H.264 you want it going into an MKV or MP4 file, not an AVI.  Also with modern video, the audio codec of choice will usually be AAC, not AC3 or MP3 as that's older tech.

MKV supports more embedded stuff like chapters, subtitles, alternate audio streams etc where MP4 is a bit more spartan in that regard.  I generally just use MP4 though.

 

Don't necessarily base judgement on Bluray material based on big GB figures.  There's often alternate audio/languages, there might be different angles and all sorts of stuff that confuses the figure.

Also consider that doubling the resolution in each direction = 4 times the pixels so bigger video file as a result.

 

After a while though you get to know what file size to expect when doing a given resolution and time duration.  Like TV shows - a 720x480 video with decent stereo AAC audio should come in somewhere between 420-500 Meg for 44 minutes.  If it's 720p video then it might blow out to 0.8-1.2 Gig, full 1080p will often be 1.6-2.4 Gig.



#5 Rybags

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 11:04 PM

The other thing too - don't forget your aspect ratios.  Widescreen DVDs are "amorphic" as in the pixels aren't square, so in most cases if you preserve the resolution as 720x576 you'd want to ensure the aspect ratio is 16:9.

It can get a bit tricky too when trying to save space.  Often a DVD will have black space encoded in the video which wastes storage space and it can be beneficial to chop it out but you still need to consider AR adjustment.  Some encoders allow you to specify either pixel AR or AR for the whole frame, if you do cropping then it's best to do AR as a pixel specification.



#6 ed12371v

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 12:16 AM

Yikes!

 

Should have joined a forum b4 I started!

 

So MP4, I can transfer the file from the computer hard drive to the usb thumb drive and plug that into my blu ray player usb port or the hd tv usb port and it will be recognised?

 

I don't care about chapters etc... I just want to back up and grab a movie from the computer hard drive with the best picture and reasonable sound quality.

 

Also, should I re_ convert the avi files from the computer hard drive to MP4 or do I have to convert them all again to MP4 directly from the blu rays again, or just leave those ones and do future ones in MP4?

 

Cheers mate.



#7 Rybags

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 07:30 AM

First up it's probably a good idea to do some test situations to see what the BR player can handle.

 

Try a simple short MP4 file on a flashdrive.  Try with the drive formatted as FAT32, exFAT then NTFS.  Some boxes will handle all those formats, some will insist on FAT32 or NTFS.

FAT32 is deficient in that it doesn't support filesize > 4 Gig.

 

Then try the different encoding types.  Try the old Divx and XVid, try H.264 encodes as both MP4 and MKV.

As for reencoding old stuff, it's a long slow process.  If it's on HDD then it's worth doing for the big stuff since you get a space reclaim of nearly 50%



#8 Jeruselem

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:25 AM

FAT32 has a problem with a maximum file size of 4gb.
exFAT (aka FAT64) does not have that issue so it can cope with huge file sizes.

Is your WiFi on KRACK?


#9 Master_Scythe

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 08:48 AM

TOALLY worth a read on this issue:

http://www.pcauthori...o-codecs.aspx/1

 

I'm always referencing the last page to help me with bitrate choices.

 

 

Also, if anyone remembers, there was a recommended 720p DVD upscale that one of the editors recommended.

He was upscaling Firefly I believe, and explained decomb, and such.

Anyone have an idea what issue\have that information handy?

 

I wouldn't bother taking a DVD above 720p, you're unlikely to do anything.

Really, all you're doing by upscaling, is splitting larger pixels to allow post processing to make more minor fixes, otherwise its fairly useless.


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#10 Rybags

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 09:15 AM

The info there's a bit old though (2007).  H.264 as I mentioned is old news and H.265 is the new big thing but unless you have something like a 4K player, decent HTPC or dedicated blackbox solution that can handle it at 1080p then there's not a lot of point using it.


Edited by Rybags, 09 December 2016 - 09:16 AM.


#11 Master_Scythe

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 10:04 AM

The info there's a bit old though (2007).  H.264 as I mentioned is old news and H.265 is the new big thing but unless you have something like a 4K player, decent HTPC or dedicated blackbox solution that can handle it at 1080p then there's not a lot of point using it.

 

Old, yeah, but still relevant.

Mainly because all (most...) portable devices have access to hardware H264 decoding, meaning the days of relying on XVID to not lose huge amounts of battery are gone.

H265 however, well, it's still new, and devices spike CPU to decode it.

 

Also, H264 is 'proven'; though dont get me wrong, i'm AMAZED with H265, 26just meets my 'I want to transcode and play on everything' requirements so far.


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#12 Rybags

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Posted 09 December 2016 - 11:29 AM

Not so sure on H.264 support being so widespread.  It still needs a bit of decoding grunt.  I've not bothered looking at DVD players in a few years but generally found that they were limited to old style Divx Avi up to 720x576.

The operative thing though is do test runs and work out what all your devices are capable of.



#13 Master_Scythe

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Posted 12 December 2016 - 11:51 AM

Graph3.jpg


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"





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