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Universal Basic Income as a product of an Automated Economy


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#1 tastywheat

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:51 PM

Separating this from the 'How crap is this government?' thread, I stumbled across this video this evening that raises a few interesting points:

 

 

I think there's an interesting parallel to slave labour in Rome, and I think the BAI and NAI are clever mechanisms to control UBI rates.



#2 i_am_banned2

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:00 AM

It's a nice idea, but we all know how it will end. Self-aware robot legions demanding to be freed (or worse, paid). Civil war erupting.

 

The next thing you know, you're fighting a random stranger to the death in a gladiatorial arena for the amusement of a cold, silent robot crowd. All this just to secure your next meal ticket from the local AI overlord. Actually, could be kinda fun.



#3 @~thehung

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:34 AM

first impressions of the initial visual depiction of the model, is that it looks a bit like a perpetual motion machine!   taking out the traditional bi-directional give/take is really non-intuitive.   but i guess this activity still exists and is reflected by fluctuations of the mean UBI rate. plus, its not like individual businesses stop living or dying on the basis of competition.  

 

 

what i wonder about though, apart from calculating a BAI seeming less like a cakewalk than a long sticky dive into John Hewsons birthday cake, is how demand for labour when channeled through an ever narrowing aperture naturally provides not just adequate capital, but sufficiently diverse and egalitarian access to it, to ensure that fair competition continues to thrive? 


no pung intended

#4 tastywheat

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 09:11 PM

It's a nice idea, but we all know how it will end. Self-aware robot legions demanding to be freed (or worse, paid). Civil war erupting.

 

Haha, yeah.  This was my first thought after the Roman slave analogy.  Slavery was a pretty neat economic solution before society recognised their humanity.  How long will it take for an advanced General AI to suggest it has consciousness?


what i wonder about though, apart from calculating a BAI seeming less like a cakewalk than a long sticky dive into John Hewsons birthday cake, is how demand for labour when channeled through an ever narrowing aperture naturally provides not just adequate capital, but sufficiently diverse and egalitarian access to it, to ensure that fair competition continues to thrive? 

 

Yeah, calculating BAI is going to be a point of contention that drives engineered loopholes.

 

I think a natural reaction to abundance is a reduction in competition.  Markets will either either find new niches to exploit that lack abundance, and by logical extension, require meat based labour, or the abundance that automation will supposedly bring will be short lived, and labour will come back into favour.  This doesn't necessarily imply conflict or disaster.  Maybe we'll decide we absolutely have to start a colony in the TRAPPIST-1 system?


Edited by tastywheat, 16 March 2017 - 09:17 PM.


#5 Cybes

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Posted 19 March 2017 - 01:23 PM

How long will it take for an advanced General AI to suggest it has consciousness?


Two things: 1) milliseconds from attainment of self-awareness; and 2) full automation in most fields does not require a full AGI - which is fortunate for automation.

...a long sticky dive into John Hewsons birthday cake...


I watched that happen at the time. He never could explain himself in a neat soundbyte - anything he tried to say ended up like Barry Jones's infographic of Knowledge Nation. And for a similar reason.

"Reality does not care what you think." - Dr Richard Feynman
"Ideas do not deserve respect.- people do." - Peter Boghossian (paraphrase)





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