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Updating current PC?


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#1 unsinkable86

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 10:25 PM

Hello, My computer i use to game on is in my opinion ready for another update. Current specs:

 

  Raijintek Themis Black CPU Cooler       Microsoft Windows 8.1 64bit OEM       ASRock 970 Extreme3 R2 Motherboard       AMD FX-6300 6 Core Black Edition Processor       Western Digital WD Black 1TB WD1003FZEX       Corsair Vengeance CML8GX3M2A1600C9 8GB (2x4GB) DDR3       EVGA SuperNOVA G1 Gold 650W Power Supply       CoolerMaster N300 Mid Tower       XFX Radeon R9 270X Double Dissipation 2GB       TP-Link Archer T9E AC1900 Wireless Dual Band PCI Express Adapter    

 

My questions:

 

* With the new CPU from AMD coming out just recently would it be wise to update my CPU soon or will mine be fine for now? (I keep hearing people mention its architecture is from 2012 and is very outdated.) I could even wait a few months? I am unsure.

 

* Would i be better off just replacing the Graphics card with something more powerful? Would this be the best bang for buck upgrade or do you have something different in mind? etc. https://www.pccasege...0-g1-gaming-8gb

 

* Is 8 gigabytes of Ram getting on the low side? I see its usage at 70 percent, i feel as if i need to throw another 4 gig stick in there but would this be a poor investment.

 

I have no worries about aesthetics, Just after performance. I feel it would be worth mentioning, I have been playing player unknown battlegrounds on an average 30 FPS And when i play elder scrolls online, some dungeons with lots of graphics bring it down below 20 FPS, but i average about 45 FPS when normal fights arise. Both games at 1080P with most things on low / medium. I have a budget of $1000.00 to invest in this in i would like to know what you would do in my shoes. 


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#2 Rybags

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Posted 18 June 2017 - 11:14 PM

You can't run the new AMD Zen CPUs on that motherboard - they use the AM4 socket which supposedly offers some backward compatibility but AFAIK there's no forward compatibility for Zen offered by previous socket types.

Also, the new architecture runs DDR4 Ram.

 

Your FX-6300 CPU would be a bit weak in single-threaded applications, overall it's about equivalent to an older generation ~ 3.2 GHz quad Core i5 or i7 CPU.  There's the FX-8000 and 9000 series in that same line of CPUs but they have more power demands and the motherboard and/or PSU mightn't be up to it.

 

Your graphics card is a bit of a weak link if you want 4K gaming or high detail on 1080 resolutions.

 

Ram - an extra 4 Gig stick will cost about 40 bucks, existing 8 Gig would be OK for most situations.

 

What would I do... maybe try to aquire a pre-loved higher specced FX CPU.  I should think there'd be plenty coming onto the market given that lots of AMD fans are moving to Zen.

Alternate to that - just sell up and build entirely new. 



#3 Master_Scythe

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 08:51 AM

Your biggest weak link is BY FAR the graphics card.

 

My approach would be thus:

 

1. Replace GPU to at least a GTX1060 3GB, but the 6GB version is faster in more ways than just RAM.

2. If that CPU isn't overclocked yet, you're missing out on the best part!

If you need a better CPU cooler, find one that supports BOTH AM3+ (your current socket) and AM4 (the new Ryzen socket), so once again, no waste of money.

3. Get an SSD (recommend a Samsung EVO series) and Move up to Windows 10 ASAP for the better memory management (With Windows 10, 8GB will be MORE than enough for 'gaming').

 

The reason mine is a good plan, is that you're giving an old system some last legs.

The is no waste of money there, since the two new purchases can come with you to a new PC.

 

You could keep an eye out for a FX 8350 or whatever the 8 core was, but I wouldn't waste my time unless it was $50 or such.

Watch gumtree or buy from the USA-Ebay and wait for postage, they're CHEAP over there. But you really don't need it.

 

A GPU, Windows 10, and an SSD will make it feel like a new PC in all the right ways.


Edited by Master_Scythe, 19 June 2017 - 08:53 AM.

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#4 Dasa

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Posted 19 June 2017 - 11:46 AM

what games do you play that are struggling for performance?

 

your hsf isn't the quietest but it does perform well enough for a decent oc

 

as mentioned the gpu is the main thing that will be holding you back and a 1070 would sure take care of that but i wouldnt be paying $700 for one when they start at $519 hell gtx 1080 can be had for $685

 

8g ram may start to become a limitation hitting 100% usage in a few new games at max texture detail creating a few stutters but provided you keep your os\background apps clean it shouldnt be a problem for most current  games


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#5 Roscosity

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Posted 23 June 2017 - 04:57 PM

The 1070 is a great value for money purchase especially up to 1440p gaming

 

If you're looking to upgrade it's definitely a good card to look at. And we can of course recommend our 1070 G1 Gaming as well :P


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#6 Dasa

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Posted 24 June 2017 - 08:22 AM

The 1070 is a great value for money purchase especially up to 1440p gaming

 

If you're looking to upgrade it's definitely a good card to look at. And we can of course recommend our 1070 G1 Gaming as well :P

shame there $696 at a store with stock when at the start of the month you could get Gigabyte Nvidia GeForce GTX 1080 Turbo OC 8GB GDDR5X for $652

but now its hard to find any gpu in stock that dont have a stupidly high price tag


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#7 unsinkable86

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 12:49 PM

With what Scythe mentioned, And my current position in life right now ( Baby on the way next week!), I have decided to stretch this computers life until i can start my project PC later down the track. As for windows 10 i have that installed currently, I failed to mention this. Also, As far as Ram goes, When at idle i use approx 1.3 Gigs of ram. When gaming i get up to the 7 Gigs range so it seems fine at the moment. Spoke with the wife and it would seem we can agree on $700.00 for now in parts. 

 

As far as GPU's go, Iv been looking since iv posted this topic and and it would seem the prices are bloated right now, Iv been looking at 6 and 8 gig variants and i would like to settle for the 8 gig GPU just to get more life from it long term. It has only struck me that PcCaseGear has very high prices and when i look at other companies selling components online iv seen the same GPU cards at much lower prices, Yikes! 

 

So with windows 10 installed, That leaves me with a selection of options. I invest in a 6 gig GPU and purchase a 124 gig SSD (Might even try for a 240, I feel this would be better so i can install the OS on it aswell as a handful of games.) and purchase a better quality CPU cooler so i can do slight over clocking with. With the current cooler on it, it is definitely loud. I am yet to overclock the CPU as i have been happy with the game performance. In saying that i watched the you tube video and it seems very easy to do with minimal risk if i follow the procedure correctly so i will go ahead with this provided i have your advice and preferred / current cooler. 

 

Or i could go ham and buy an 8 gig card and save what money i am given per week and buy an  SSD and CPU Cooler in the very near future. 

 

Also with all the many varient GPU's for GTX 1070, Could i have al ink on what you guys specificly would chose in the range? Im not sure what cons there are for certain GPU's. 


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#8 Rybags

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Posted 25 June 2017 - 01:34 PM

If you're gaming is limited to 1080 resolutions then 2 or 3 Gig on the video card is probably sufficient.  1440 and higher resolutions and stereo VR stuff tend to push requirements higher.  Seems the price diff on some cards for 3 vs 6 Gig is like 50 bucks or so which IMO makes it well worthwhile to just go for the bigger one.  The 1070 tends to have plenty of VRAM by default anyway since it's targetted towards gaming.

 

Looking @ the MSY site it seems the 1070 cards span a $110 price range - you may as well go for one towards the higher end.  Seems the bells and whistles on some just involve things like RGB LEDs and the "OC" tag which really just means they verify the overclockability then bundle it with software such as MSI Overdrive which cranks speeds up beyond the defaults.

 

Assuming you have 2x4 = 8 Gig Ram and a couple of spare slots, probably worth picking up a single 4 Gig stick for ~ $40 to bring it to 12.

 

On a $700 budget the card eats up most/all of it, leaving you with the CPU as the weak point. 


Edited by Rybags, 25 June 2017 - 01:35 PM.


#9 Master_Scythe

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 08:56 AM

Or i could go ham and buy an 8 gig card and save what money i am given per week and buy an  SSD and CPU Cooler in the very near future. 

 

Also with all the many varient GPU's for GTX 1070, Could i have al ink on what you guys specificly would chose in the range? Im not sure what cons there are for certain GPU's. 

 

It depends what you play.

a 1060 6GB will play all current titles at max quality. Looking at about $350.

You might not be able to max out AA and AF, but most people I know agree with "If it's better than 'off', it's good enough". Even when I'm sitting at the top, I still only 2X AA and 2X AF.

 

Get the 256GB SSD, and with those, while you can read reviews all day, money is tight! Buy the cheapest name brand. (It'll probably end up being a Sandisk, which I've had GREAT success with!!!!)

The speed difference between a Hard Drive and an SSD is so mind blowing, absolutely indescribable, that you wont notice the difference between 100X your current speed, and 105X.

Benchmark differences might look dramatic, but real world 'human feeling' is nothing.

 

It just depends if you want to spend the whole budget.

 

If you do, a GTX1070 and a 256GB Samsung SSD; it'll be about spot on $700

 

If you want to only spend about $500, so you can save that for the "big bang upgrade" later, then GTX1060 6GB, and a 256GB Sandisk; which should be just shy of $500.

 

If there's an MSY near you, or a uMart, shop there.

If not, look at FUTU ONLINE on Ebay; I know ebay sounds risky, but not this time.

They're the first store to be backed by Ebay and Woolworths for their click and collect (so there had to be trust!), and I've personally ordered a LOT from them in the past.

Time it with a good 'ebay wide 20% off' deal and you'll get some real bargains. (think there's one on now? Check OzBargain)

 

EDIT:

And please don't be scared of overclocking.

If you follow a guide and play in the shallow waters, your chance of damaging something is so close to 0% it's hardly worth mentioning.

Even a 5% Overclock is at least something!

And since your architecture is so many years old, pure Megahertz grunt will be required to make up for missing instruction sets.

 

Here;

 

A GTX970 is somewhere between a GTX1060 and GTX1070 (closer to the 70).

You can see at a very easy, very safe, 4.5GHZ you're seeing quite a frame rate advantage.

 

http://www.overclock...ith-benchmarks#

 

This guys resolved thread looks fairly safe. Voltages are a LITTLE high, so see if those can stay down a LITTLE more, but really, it should be fine.

His final settings are in his original post :)

What does a CPU last? 20 years? 50 years? Even if you halve it's life expectancy, you still have a bloody long lasting computer.

 

Just disable turbo and get anywhere above 4.1ghz (your turbo speed), 24/7.

Worth every second.


Edited by Master_Scythe, 26 June 2017 - 09:07 AM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#10 Dasa

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 11:18 AM

 

A GTX970 is somewhere between a GTX1060 and GTX1070 (closer to the 70).

gtx980 actually sits around gtx 1060 reference so the 970 is a fair way behind the 1070 which is over 30% faster than a 1060 oc

https://www.techpowe...0_Armor/30.html

 

af doesn't have much of a performance hit these days and i have never liked the image quality below 8x af

aa however can have a massive performance hit for minimal gain although it can be nice to have

some games need aa\af more than others


Edited by Dasa, 26 June 2017 - 11:19 AM.

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#11 Master_Scythe

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Posted 26 June 2017 - 11:47 AM

 

 

A GTX970 is somewhere between a GTX1060 and GTX1070 (closer to the 70).

gtx980 actually sits around gtx 1060 reference so the 970 is a fair way behind the 1070 which is over 30% faster than a 1060 oc

https://www.techpowe...0_Armor/30.html

 

af doesn't have much of a performance hit these days and i have never liked the image quality below 8x af

aa however can have a massive performance hit for minimal gain although it can be nice to have

some games need aa\af more than others

 

 

Oh shit, you're right! my apologies. I was running off memory.

 

But we're almost agreeing (not entirely on the AF, but still).

"Any AA and AF is usually enough"; if you can use it, that's what you need :)


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#12 unsinkable86

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 01:27 PM

Last night I spent some time learning how to overclock my cpu and with great success I managed so far 4.3ghz at 1.3 volts with max temperatures hitting 41 degrees. I used furmark and ran cpu burn for an hour with stability being ok. I actually gained about 15 fps on average in player unknown battlegrounds which is a huge shock to me!

I watched the over clocking video and turned most of what he explained to turn off but my mother board bios setup is much different to the video. Might take some screen shots and show you guys but I don't think this is the right thread for it. Once iv bought my gpu and ssd this weekend I'll open another thread with my over clocking situation.

I live in Victoria and I have 2 msy stores in my vacinity. One being the msy store in dandenong. As far as ssd's go I'll just a cheap SanDisk 240 they sell, but can someone please link me a suitable gpu they are selling currently within my budget. I don't want to pick one and find out I could of bought a better card for 20 dollars more.

On my phone currently, I hope this post makes sense!
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#13 Rybags

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 01:51 PM

There's a big performance range in SSDs.  Getting cheap can be counterproductive, some are barely over half as fast as the better ones.

 

I've got several - couple of old 60 Gig OCZs which are a bit slow by today's standards.  Main machine has a Kingston HyperX which is above average.  Got a Samsung Evo 750 in my Macbook Pro, the Samsung 750 and 850 cost a bit more than most but are generally faster by a higher ratio vs price.

Also make sure of course you buy the right type - don't buy M.2/NGFF if your board only has standard Sata ports.



#14 Master_Scythe

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Posted 27 June 2017 - 02:20 PM

4.3ghz is good, especially at 1.3v. If that's permanent (turbo off, always at that speed) leave it there and be happy :)

I'll try and get time to look at MSY for you soon. Otherwise, as long as you get a 6GB 1060 or above, you're doing fine. Avoid the mini ITX ones, as they only have one fan, and are louder.

If you want a 1070, then get one, they're great cards, so long as it has more than 4GB of RAM you'll be able to play games at max textures (DOOM for example requires 4GB or more).

 

Best thing about 1060's and 1070's is that they all overclock to about the same speeds, no matter what. So it's quite hard to go wrong.

But i'll try find time to look at specifics for you.


There's a big performance range in SSDs.  Getting cheap can be counterproductive, some are barely over half as fast as the better ones.

 

I've got several - couple of old 60 Gig OCZs which are a bit slow by today's standards.  Main machine has a Kingston HyperX which is above average.  Got a Samsung Evo 750 in my Macbook Pro, the Samsung 750 and 850 cost a bit more than most but are generally faster by a higher ratio vs price.

Also make sure of course you buy the right type - don't buy M.2/NGFF if your board only has standard Sata ports.

 

Technically you're right, but honestly, you don't feel it.

 

Benchmarks will scream it from the heavens, 'empty' and 'fill' tests will show it heavily, but real world use?

The biggest slow down is SEEK times, which SSD's no matter how shit, near eliminate.

2nd is throughput speed, and considering we're talking hundreds of megabytes a second, there are VERY VERY few files that can't load in, say, 2 seconds.

 

Notice I'm not disagreeing with you, you're right, but all I'm saying is that once you're on an SSD, it's just different types of fast.

 

It's like choosing between a R35 Skyline, a Maserati, a Bugatti, and an Audi R8...... Yep, some of those are CERTAINLY faster than the other.

But when you're coming from nannas old 1.3L Barina? It just doesn't matter......


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#15 unsinkable86

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 10:31 AM

http://www.msy.com.a...e-vga-card.html

http://www.msy.com.a...tate-drive.html

$584.00 total for both gpu and ssd. The 8gig gpu's I have looked at whilst enticing.. I feel the price difference seems too bloated at his stage for performance gain per dollar. What are your thoughts?
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#16 Master_Scythe

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 11:20 AM

You can save $30 here

http://www.msy.com.a...e-vga-card.html

AND it's a rear venting card, which I prefer because it keeps case temps down.


Also, yeah I've used those Sandisk SSD's a lot in the past.

 

They're fast.

 

Not mindblowingly, but... faster than a speeding bullet next to a normal HDD which you're coming from.

 

http://www.hardwares...240-gib-review/


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#17 unsinkable86

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 12:51 PM

https://youtu.be/jiM2kwBL__U

Iv had a blower cooler before.. I think it was a hd5770 (going back a bit!) And it was very noise and ran really hot under load and it has always left a bad taste in my mouth since purchasing the blower type.

I feel as if the open fan type would better suit my needs (read: runs cooler and lower noise levels) as I will have very sufficient airflow in my case which in turn will exhaust all the hot air blown sideways of the gpu onto other components to the rear of the case. Scythe, is it just your preference for the blower type coolers? I'm very open to being corrected if I am wrong or I have the wrong mind set, after all you and the others here are the experts not me! :P
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#18 Rybags

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 12:59 PM

Modern video cards run way lower clocks and voltage in 2D mode such that the fan is barely needed.

Once you start gaming there's usually plenty of volume from the audio anyway so noise becomes a bit less of an issue.

Generally if the video card is less than about 180 Watts TDP the cooling requirements shouldn't be too high, which = not too much noise.

 

http://www.gpuboss.com

Type your card type into the topmost box, it'll usually come up with a dropdown where you can select the closest card to your own.

Once the page loads again, goto bottom of page and it should have the power requirement listed.

 

 

Also, in my experience ducted through and venting out the back will give less added heat inside the case but ultimately that design is way more prone to clogging up with dust which needs disassembling to remove.  The open designs will generally be easier to keep clean but contribute more to internal case temps.

Regardless, for most of the last 10 years I've run my main box with the CPU fan pointing towards the back of the case with the largest fan possible extracting that heat directly away.  And also run a fan blowing fresh intake air directly over the HDD.


Edited by Rybags, 28 June 2017 - 01:04 PM.


#19 Master_Scythe

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 10:45 AM

Let us know how it goes when you've upgraded.

 

I'm excited to know.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#20 unsinkable86

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 06:19 PM

19553891_691559467721162_508113560567121

 

Couldn't help myself, Ended up racing to MSY after work today. Made it with 8 minutes to spare! After discussions and checking reviews, investigating pro's and con's, I decided to be stubborn and stick with the housing fans over the blower type. Main reason why i have done this is peace of mind to myself, If i wasn't going to enjoy the purchase than to me it would not have been worth it. Other reasons include lower GPU temperature especially with the case i am currently preparing and more quiet.. Which some of you are going to argue! :D

 

I will be putting the parts in tonight, Download drivers and get everything in working order, Stay tuned.


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