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Confessional seal of silence.


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#21 Cybes

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Posted 19 December 2017 - 12:44 AM

Personally, I really favour the idea of getting rid of invisible friends for adults, but I know that's not going to happen.  Probably not before the rise of the next subspecies, assuming there is one.


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#22 eveln

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Posted 13 June 2018 - 11:31 PM

http://www.abc.net.a...fession/9867128

" Last year 122 recommendations were delivered to the government, including calls to throw out the sanctity of the confessional.

In a statement posted to YouTube, Australian Catholic Bishops Conference President, Archbishop Mark Coleridge dismissed those demands.

"The church doesn't want to protect criminals, it wants children to be safe from them," he said.

"And the church wants measures that really make environments safer for children.

"But there's nothing to suggest that legal abolition of the seal will help in that regard."

 

Re the underlined, what Coleridge says is basically true. Nothing will change while priests shield the church before the parishioners.


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#23 TheManFromPOST

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 09:14 AM

I'd be surprised if any of these priests were confessing their sins

Remember, sex is forbidden in the catholic church, as is gay sex



#24 chrisg

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 11:23 AM

I'd be surprised if any of these priests were confessing their sins

Remember, sex is forbidden in the catholic church, as is gay sex

Probably just makes them more repressively horny, hence all the abuses.

 

Sex  is natural, it's fun, I've been without it for a bit, just circumstances, working on it, but to subscribe to a faith that prohibits it is to me insane.

 

If it is so bad how come there are so many catholics ? :)

 

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#25 TheManFromPOST

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 01:22 PM

and to think that a generation ago, people would go to a priest for marital advice



#26 eveln

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Posted 14 June 2018 - 08:12 PM

The unmitigated gall to think that they were worthy of using this specie's future to satisfy their unallowed sexual pleasures ... that's how much true respect is given their supposed chosen religion and their fellow man and the future success of this species.

Absolutely Sweet Fuck All.


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#27 chrisg

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 10:11 AM

Hmm,

 

Don't know if you have ever been to Rome, or more specifically the Vatican. I haven't myself in a few years but it always struck me as creepy the little choir boys following the priests around. Not exclusive to that religion of course but I tend to dislike all religions so I'm not likely to be a fair witness )

 

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#28 Jeruselem

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Posted 15 June 2018 - 11:41 AM

https://www.sbs.com....ion-protections

 

SA to remove protections for confessionals!


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#29 eveln

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 11:04 AM

http://www.abc.net.a...x-abuse/9877526

" "The state will be requiring us as Catholic priests to commit as what we regard as the most serious crime and I'm not willing to do that," Father Whelan said."

 

And that right there ( the underlined ) is the problem in a nutshell.

Trust. The church seems to consider the trust of confession a higher priority than the well being and Trust of their parishioners. It doesn't seem to matter that the children and future  parents ( if the children survive that long ) have the opportunity

to become healthy well grounded human beings. They must by definition of suffering mentally and physically the abuses of paedophilia become unnecessarily scarred individuals who will quite likely affect others in a negative way too, there by allowing the growth of the original abuse to spread further than foreseen.

 

The act of paedophilia is a crime .

 

The Churches seem to wish to live outside our law, and yet at the same time have influence within our politics and with our law makers.

 

I think that is some really fucked up irrationality on our part .


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#30 Jeruselem

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 11:14 AM

https://thenewdaily....yal-commission/

 

Priest confessed to ... 1500 abuses ... yes 1500, not 150, or 15.

Praying didn't help much did it?


Edited by Jeruselem, 17 June 2018 - 11:15 AM.

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#31 TheManFromPOST

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 11:45 AM

Eveln, the church considers itself to be above the laws of men

they report to a higher authority, God

 

How they see it;

politicians come and go, nation states appear and disappear, but the Cristian church has prevailed for 2000+ years



#32 Jeruselem

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 11:47 AM

The bible was written by men, not a God. The laws of God as "interpreted" by the Church


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#33 eveln

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 12:22 PM

Eveln, the church considers itself to be above the laws of men

they report to a higher authority, God

 

How they see it;

politicians come and go, nation states appear and disappear, but the Cristian church has prevailed for 2000+ years

And it will likely prevail till earth implodes. During that time through the pressures of ' civilized social changes ' it has adapted along the way. Adapting ( evolving ) is how it's survived don't you think ?

 

Even Pell ( I think it was ) publicly admitted that back during this contemporary horror of the churches' history, the disastrous consequences of paedophilia were not perceived as much of a real problem for humanity. ... as long as they kept their

indiscretions behind closed doors that is ;) So, given the education and civilized growth of our time we must push and drag the churches into the 21st century, and or lock all offending clergy-of-which-ever-faith up and throw away the key.

 

edit: I'm agnostic. I quite like that people can believe . I just would prefer they do it without having to have their offspring harmed for their belief by clergy who feel they have a right to break their own beliefs by having sex with kids.


Edited by eveln, 17 June 2018 - 12:32 PM.

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#34 eveln

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Posted 17 June 2018 - 01:02 PM

http://www.abc.net.a...portant/9874752

" Former Catholic priest and historian Dr Paul Collins says a young Catholic's first confession, usually at the age of about seven, was often his or her last.

"What's happened within Catholicism really over the last 40 years has been a complete collapse of people going anywhere near a confessional," Dr Collins told ABC Radio Adelaide.

"Most Catholics including myself haven't been near a confessional for 30 years or even longer."

The modern Catholic Mass includes an absolution where parishioners admit they are sinners and the priest asks God to have mercy on them and forgive their sins."

 

Crikey I remember having to go through the confession ritual at least fortnightly during my school years up to the age of about sixteen / seventeen . I was not very contrite nor honest about it tbh. I thought it a Sham.

And if the above is so true then I don't know why the church is making such a fuss about it all .

 

""The second thing is no paedophile with any brains at all is going to go near a confessional if there's mandatory reporting.

"They're of their very nature highly secretive "

 

The above assumes that clergy in general are not observant of their fellow persons. I find that extraordinary.

 

"Anything said inside the confessional box is subject to the seal of confession, but if a child mentioned he or she had been abused while there "it's the sort of the thing where you'd invite them to speak to you outside of confession", Bishop O'Kelly said.

If the abuse is then mentioned outside of the confessional, the priest would have to report it to the Child Abuse Report Line."

 

Re the underlined particularly : A person who uses the confessional to alert others of abuse is doing so because the confessional is a safe space for them. Having the authority figure tell them to speak outside later would be another threat for the confessor to deal with. Surely, if the child were to see that their confession of abuse is taken seriously first time round ...?


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#35 ArchangelOfTheLamb

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Posted 04 July 2018 - 11:21 PM

[quote name="chrisg" post="1194953" timestamp="1502787731"][quote name="Nich..." post="1194952" timestamp="1502785608"]
...
Slippery thing is the law - probably explains a lot of lawyers you would not want to shake hands with and if you had to you'd go wash after :)
 
Cheers[/quote]

You summed up one of the key reasons why I left the legal profession right there. :-)

As a former solicitor, though, I can confirm that spousal privilege is a voluntary thing. It applies to the spouse giving evidence, not the spouse to whom the evidence relates. This means that the spouse can choose to give or not give evidence regardless of whether hubby or wifey are happy for them to do so. Furthermore, under the Evidence Acts, the privilege actually extends to other family members (e.g. parents, children) and is not absolute. The Court can order that the evidence be given even if a family relationship exists. In deciding whether to make such an order, the Court must consider factors such as the extent to which the family relationship would be damaged if the person where to give the evidence, the availability of evidence from other sources and the probative value of the evidence (among other things). So it is by no means an absolute privilege.

Also, in some jurisdictions, there are offences that criminalise the failure to give information about a serious indictable offence to police without reasonable excuse, which effectively make everyone a mandatory reporter (and example is the NSW offence under which Archbishop Philip Wilson of the Roman Catholic Church was recently convicted). These offences are broad and do not just apply to sexual abuse, but they are hard to prove and are rarely prosecuted for that reason (they are usually used against gang members when the cops have nothing else but still want to sink someone).

IMO the whole idea of the confessional seal is a furphy. I am a Cleric in the Liberal Catholic Church (not a part of the Church of Rome) and we do not teach that confessing your sins to a priest will absolve you of all wrongdoing. Rather, sins should be confessed to God directly, as Scripture teaches, and even then with sincere contrition and an intention not to sin again. 'Atonement' is not a way of escaping the consequences of one's actions, but rather an act of 'at-one-ment' designed to bring one'ss spiritual direction back into line with the path that God laid out for us. If you sin, you still suffer the consequences, but these consequences are likely to be less severe if you show true remorse and do what you can to fix what you broke (on the other hand, if you try and abuse the system by thinking you can keep getting away with the same crap by confessing to a priest each time you do it, then the Lord is quite likely to be most displeased). On that basis, I see no theological or moral reason why priests should not be mandatory reporters of abuse. Indeed, a priest who is truly doing the work of God would actively be trying to deal with such awful crimes and a truly-contrite abuser should own up to what they did and face the consequences. That is the only way they could truly get absolution. It baffles me that an organisation that for hundreds of years forced confessions out of 'witches' and others who did not suit its political agenda so that it could then take these people to public execution now has the nerve to cry about the confessional seal when it comes to paedophiles. No such seal exists in Scripture. And even if it did, the Church of Rome desecrated it long ago with their many inquisitions.

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#36 eveln

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:13 AM

" Indeed, a priest who is truly doing the work of God would actively be trying to deal with such awful crimes and a truly-contrite abuser should own up to what they did and face the consequences. That is the only way they could truly get absolution. It baffles me that an organisation that for hundreds of years forced confessions out of 'witches' and others who did not suit its political agenda so that it could then take these people to public execution now has the nerve to cry about the confessional seal when it comes to paedophiles. No such seal exists in Scripture. And even if it did, the Church of Rome desecrated it long ago with their many inquisitions."

 

Exactamondo ArchAngelOfTheLamb, exactamondo ! Been the basis of my reasoning all through. What does my head in is the current dudes espousing the churches holiness and right above the law/s of the land. Law/s by the way, that were duly put in place with the help and overwhelming influence of the church. And now when finally the mental / physical health of this species can be openly looked at and hopefully dealt with, the church wants to be above it all.

As to the underlined, imo, someone committing the crime of paedophilia is most unlikely to admit to it. The ones who would likely seek help are those with desires untried as yet.<< and that's not really a given either.

AFAIC the church (hierarchy ) wants to carry on as it always has. It's just doing what it feels necessary politically to do atm. When the dust settles they hope to carry on as per usual.


Edited by eveln, 05 July 2018 - 07:14 AM.

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