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Do we expect too much from revolutionary franchise sequels?


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#1 thuylinhphuong

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 05:16 PM

The Victorian architecture of Old Spitalfields Market offered a perfect setting for Vans' annual competition. Alex James could possibly get his skates onto encounter the day's action.
 
- The ingredient that was the wedding? The Next Vans Downtown Showdown worldwide skateboarding contest to happen in Europe, What Size Skateboard good for an 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 year old now at London's Old Spitalfields Market on 20 August. Around 10,000 visitors found watch throughout the day, that makes it the most effective skateboarding event the Uk has observed.
 
- How was the brief met? The wedding is just one of skate clothing brand Vans' flagship characteristics globally, and offers been stored in the last six years. After European editions in Turin (2009) and Hamburg (2010), the company felt proven up to simply accept event to London, among Europe's key skateboarding towns. A business from Innovision created the wedding, working carefully with Tower Hamlets Council.
 
Transporting out a place are really sourced, ten of skateboarding's top brands were requested to submit a hurdle design while using the 2010 theme of Victorian London. The winning obstacles - the Dying Skateboards Ripper Alley, the Cliche Skateboards Tower Bridge together with Superdead SkateboardsTavern - produced the main focus throughout the day.
 
The wedding started at 12pm on Saturday, with each and every single obstacle being skated in order by 40 within the finest skateboarders in Europe, all competing for the EUR50,000 prize. By 2pm everything was proven up, acquiring an enormous screen relaying all the action for that crowds.
 
Branding was stored within the existing theme available on the market, letting the Victorian architecture stick out. A Van Doren Pizza Parlour by Fire & Stone saw slices offered up by Steve Van Doren, Vans family member and vice-president of occasions and promotions, while skateboarding retailers for instance Slam City Skates setup their own market stalls.
 
The winners inside the contest were announced within the awards ceremony at 6pm, acquiring a Monster Energy after-party held at Village Undercover in Shoreditch.
 
- The ingredient that was good? The extra brand touches, different within the Van Doren Pizza Parlour for that Daily Waffle, a paper created by Cure Studios that visited 25,000 Londoners inside the run-for the event. The ingredient that was bad? Rain threatened have a great time playing the mid-day, best complete skateboard using the very best outdoors skateboarding obstacles wouldn't have observed the opportunity to operate once the weather elevated to not become wet. Fortunately it brightened up, allowing something to move forward without any hitches.
 
- How what's regarding the event?
stair3.jpg
 
A genuine online entrepreneur described in relation to this on Facebook.
 
- The ingredient that was good?
 
The location. It absolutely was easily available business parts of London together with Uk, and shut acquiring a nationwide rail station, London Liverpool Street.
 
- The ingredient that was bad?
 
The rain, and perhaps there may have been more information regarding the Vans brand itself, along with factor it represents. I don't feel I am any the smarter regarding the products, but maybe getting less sell you was part of the request the wedding.
 
- The ingredient that was the very best challenge?
 
The very best challenge in relation to this project was most certainly the closure of Brushfield Street, because it is a principal access road to Petticoat Lane for the busy Friday market. We launched inside the extended consultation with Transport for London, Tower Hamlets together with glasgow- London to accomplish this. For people as being a brand, this combination of indoor and from doorways actually was imperative that you 'make the event' for the spectators and competitors, so the closure constantly was certainly our primary challenge.
 
- Whatrrrs your opinion you'd do differently next time?
 
The wedding surpassed our expectations on every quantity of production, so inside the brand perspective there's no stand-out things we'd have altered. Inside the run-for the event there's slight concerns that folks won't have time for you to de-rig inside the time needed and restore industry to being fully operational for Sunday, but Innovision, IOU Ramps and our staff labored hard therefore we delivered before deadline without any issues.
 
- What did the wedding achieve?
 
For people the key factor factor factor achievement while using the wedding was that folks showcased skateboarding inside the truly authentic, downtown London location. We could show Old Spitalfields Market in another light, and London located the most effective and lots of credible skateboarding event in Europe this season. Hopefully this might open the entrance for the Vans brand to create more thrilling encounters across core sports and what size skateboard to get music inside the capital.

Edited by thuylinhphuong, 12 September 2017 - 06:29 PM.


#2 Rybags

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Posted 02 September 2017 - 05:35 PM

Where's the paragraph breaks?

 

Where's the links to crappy medicines, herbs and body care products?



#3 Chaos.Lady

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 10:31 AM

It can be a very fine line.  Change too much and people will scream that they have "ruined" it compared to the original because they took too much away of what made it great.

 

Change too little and it's too similar and boring.

 

Change the wrong mechanics and they "broke" it.

 

There have been very, very, VERY few games where the second game lived up to the first.  Oddly, the third is usually awesome because developers have been told (in no uncertain terms) what they broke by changing it in the second and have a really good handle on exactly what made the game for the players.


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#4 @~thehung

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 02:17 PM

I know I am probably a bit behind in thinking about this for current games and 2 games (battlefield 3 and CoD 37,000 are just about to come out, but they are still the same type of games)
 
But what I am more talking about is the franchise games that really made an impact such as Mass Effect, Bioshock, Deus Ex, GTA III and onward. When these games came out all the reviews and talk was about how they changed their genre of gaming forever. How great it was that there are still games that are coming out that are different. But when the sequel's came out I noticed that most of the reviews tones changed. I felt that most tend to complain that the house producing the game has stopped trying and just throwing together something to make money.
 
I remember reading a review about bioshock 2 when it came out that said it was great that you can now use plasmids and guns at the same time, the multi-player seemed great. But the game was still in rapture and that it was getting a bit boring. I thought the idea of rapture was that hardly anyone on the surface knew about it and in that world or universe it was life was normal on the surface.
 
Reading about Deus Ex: Human Revolution, one reviewer stated that after it being so long since the first one was made he was disappointed that was too similar to the original. They said that in 2000 Deus Ex was a real gaming revolution and was disappointed that Human Revolution wasn't another revolution. I figure if it was another revolution on the first revolution, then it would be a different game. Basically because the changes in dynamics would be too great for it to be a sequel.
 
What are your thoughts on this?

 

i cant speak much to those games in particular.  i stopped part way through the first Bioshock, despite it being a laudable achievement in many ways, because it was a pale imitation of all that had always been promised in terms of its gameplay.  and i loved what the first Deus Ex was in spirit, but just could never get into it.  i did try many years later, but found its very much of its time — whereas i have had fun going back to its cyberpunk contemporary System Shock 2 a couple of times.  so without knowledge of the sequels of these games its hard to know exactly what you are getting at.

 

i think there are some natural tendancies at play here.  people want lightning to strike twice.  fans cant help themselves from hoping/expecting that it might, and its in the interests of the studios to fuel the hype.  so very often there are unrealistic expectations.

 

having said that, i think there is a difference between expecting to be wowed over and over again, and expecting something that was groundbreaking to stick to its original trajectory.  when a game comes out that marks an evolution in design and mechanics it opens up new possibilities.   its when creators fail to adequately explore and develop the new possibilities they themselves have spawned, or fail to keep in step with other evolutions of the day in the mean time, in favour of resting on their laurels and languishing in the safety of producing something more akin to a glorified expansion pack than a sequel, that we as an audience can have legitimate gripes.

 

HL1 and HL2 are prime example of doing it right.  maybe a bit of an unfair example, in the sense that lightning really did strike twice there.  but, even had HL2 not been a massive success, it took advantage of advancements in tech while adding new mechanics, and yet was still a continuation of a consistent world.  but yeah...thats er, not easy to do.  and its probably why HL3 has yet to be confirmed.


Edited by @~thehung, 03 September 2017 - 03:42 PM.

no pung intended

#5 Cybes

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Posted 03 September 2017 - 04:20 PM

Deus-Ex:HR too similar to the original? Did that dude play the same game as me? :p

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#6 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 11:23 AM

Nope.

BIOSHOCK showed that each sequel can be better.

 

So did PORTAL

 

So did Warcraft (the RTS not the MMO)

 

It's not expecting too much :)


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#7 fabman_uk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:17 AM

"BIOSHOCK showed that each sequel can be better." - Except for AI, which hadn't improved at all.

 

I don't like it when developers of games or movies try to keep what was good about the first one and make more of that in the sequel. Problem I think with that is it messes with pacing, sometimes you need a slow / boring part to make the next scene seem awesome. Guardians of the Galaxy 2 is an example, it threw far too much action, retro music and jokes that it never took time to allow us to give a shit about the people on the screen.



#8 Master_Scythe

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 10:00 AM

"BIOSHOCK showed that each sequel can be better." - Except for AI, which hadn't improved at all.

 

Not between 1 and 2, you're right; but it's a "story shooter" I'm not there for perfect battle AI

 

But with the exception of the occasional "repeat the same movement" enemy, Infinite was BRUTAL.

They'd track you, do pincer moves, call for reenforcements.....

I'm just playing through again now, and DAMN is it a pain fighting those guys.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#9 Rybags

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:33 PM

Suspcicious much that you're just replying to a spambot?

 

This account was created the day this thread started, has 1 post and hasn't been logged in since the minute the thread was started.



#10 Master_Scythe

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:39 PM

Suspcicious much that you're just replying to a spambot?

This account was created the day this thread started, has 1 post and hasn't been logged in since the minute the thread was started.

 

Not really :P

"it" has a point, and it actually got some discussion started.

 

It's a nice change over skincare and magic drugs.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#11 fabman_uk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:48 PM

Erm: Member Since 09 Apr 2011 Like to keep the forums small?

 

I actually thought BioShock Infinite AI was terrible and highly predictable. I typically play games on hard settings, so I like a challenge and found with BioShock Infinite I could easily use the same moves again and again. I really don't have much nice to say about that game.


Edited by fabman_uk, 07 September 2017 - 12:54 PM.


#12 Master_Scythe

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:53 PM

Erm: Member Since 09 Apr 2011

 

Like to keep the forums small?

 

I actually thought BioShock Infinite AI was terrible and highly predictable. I typically play games on hard settings, so I like a challenge and found with BioShock Infinite I could easily use the same moves again and again. I really don't have much nice to say about that game.

 

Nah he meant the OP.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

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#13 fabman_uk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 12:57 PM

 

Erm: Member Since 09 Apr 2011

 

Like to keep the forums small?

 

I actually thought BioShock Infinite AI was terrible and highly predictable. I typically play games on hard settings, so I like a challenge and found with BioShock Infinite I could easily use the same moves again and again. I really don't have much nice to say about that game.

 

Nah he meant the OP.

 

I see... still, you want new people in this forum, got to encourage them. This forum is quiet, needs more human flesh.



#14 Master_Scythe

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:03 PM

E

with BioShock Infinite I could easily use the same moves again and again. I really don't have much nice to say about that game.

 

See, I've never had that irk me in a game, mainly because in MOST cases (not just this game), the enemies are Military, or trained, or a 'gang'.

It seems logical to have them behave a certain way.

 

The AI took into it's own when you came up against a Crow, or a Fireman. They learn't VERY quickly, couldn't use the same attack twice.

One fight stuck in my head.

I once got a crow stuck in a VERY small room, reform, shoot, birds, reform, shoot, birds, etc.

After about 3 or 4 injuries like that, he decided to reform behind me, which pushed me forward (I didn't know it could do that!), attack me, and INSTANTLY burst into birds.

From that point, I couldn't get him to reform solidly enough in that room to fight him, I had to go back in the open.

Which is never fun against Crows.

 

Foot soldiers? Yeah, pop em off at a distance, they're just grunts, but it had it's fair share of AI moments.

 

Fighting ghosts too, they stopped coming at me blindly, and took up vantage points to wait for me to come out.......

 

That game on hard, with Adaptive AI turned on was a challenge, I thought.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#15 fabman_uk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:12 PM

 

E

with BioShock Infinite I could easily use the same moves again and again. I really don't have much nice to say about that game.

 

See, I've never had that irk me in a game, mainly because in MOST cases (not just this game), the enemies are Military, or trained, or a 'gang'.

It seems logical to have them behave a certain way.

 

The AI took into it's own when you came up against a Crow, or a Fireman. They learn't VERY quickly, couldn't use the same attack twice.

One fight stuck in my head.

I once got a crow stuck in a VERY small room, reform, shoot, birds, reform, shoot, birds, etc.

After about 3 or 4 injuries like that, he decided to reform behind me, which pushed me forward (I didn't know it could do that!), attack me, and INSTANTLY burst into birds.

From that point, I couldn't get him to reform solidly enough in that room to fight him, I had to go back in the open.

Which is never fun against Crows.

 

Foot soldiers? Yeah, pop em off at a distance, they're just grunts, but it had it's fair share of AI moments.

 

Fighting ghosts too, they stopped coming at me blindly, and took up vantage points to wait for me to come out.......

 

That game on hard, with Adaptive AI turned on was a challenge, I thought.

 

 

Hmmm... I might have to retry it one day.

 

The problem might also be me, whenever I find I a winning strategy in a game, I use it on rinse and repeat, very rarely change from winning tactics to something else for fun. Which can drain the fun out of something that is supposed to be fun. Same thing with powerful guns or grenades, I hold onto them 'just in case', then the game is completed and I had to walk past ammo because I was carrying the max awesome stuff.

 

Recently changed style with Horizon Zero Dawn, fired different guns, embraced different tactics, consumed limited use items and I thought it was one of the best games ever. But then I can craft ammo whenever I want so I don't have the pressure to reserve for 'just in case'.


Edited by fabman_uk, 07 September 2017 - 01:13 PM.


#16 Master_Scythe

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:20 PM

 

 

E

with BioShock Infinite I could easily use the same moves again and again. I really don't have much nice to say about that game.

 

See, I've never had that irk me in a game, mainly because in MOST cases (not just this game), the enemies are Military, or trained, or a 'gang'.

It seems logical to have them behave a certain way.

 

The AI took into it's own when you came up against a Crow, or a Fireman. They learn't VERY quickly, couldn't use the same attack twice.

One fight stuck in my head.

I once got a crow stuck in a VERY small room, reform, shoot, birds, reform, shoot, birds, etc.

After about 3 or 4 injuries like that, he decided to reform behind me, which pushed me forward (I didn't know it could do that!), attack me, and INSTANTLY burst into birds.

From that point, I couldn't get him to reform solidly enough in that room to fight him, I had to go back in the open.

Which is never fun against Crows.

 

Foot soldiers? Yeah, pop em off at a distance, they're just grunts, but it had it's fair share of AI moments.

 

Fighting ghosts too, they stopped coming at me blindly, and took up vantage points to wait for me to come out.......

 

That game on hard, with Adaptive AI turned on was a challenge, I thought.

 

 

Hmmm... I might have to retry it one day.

 

The problem might also be me, whenever I find I a winning strategy in a game, I use it on rinse and repeat, very rarely change from winning tactics to something else for fun.

 

Oh don't get me wrong! Bioshock was no feat of engineering or AI, you can sit back, zoom in, and casually pop people off, but I'm one of those guys who loves to put myself in the shoes of the character.

Booker wouldn't sit in the corner and wait a literal 3 minutes for that guy to move his head the right angle again, when the military are after him.

He'd be kicking it as quick as possible to the next safe spot.

 

Next time, try your best to lose yourself in the character, and see if it helps.

 

If you play slowly and 'calculating' yeah, most AI sucks balls, but to quote one of my favorite movies;

"That's PLAYER knowledge, not CHARACTER knowledge".


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#17 Nich...

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:25 PM

Suspcicious much that you're just replying to a spambot?

 

This account was created the day this thread started, has 1 post and hasn't been logged in since the minute the thread was started.

I ignored your first comment in the thread, but not doing so again.

 

If it's a bot, then cool, they're finally making bots smart enough to post content worth discussing.  If it's not a bot but is a person paid to do the same thing, then whatever.  I had a quick google and didn't see the same content posted anywhere else.

 

If it's not a 'bot', and it is a legitimate new forum member, then I don't see what's to be gained by shitting on their heads, and I'd appreciate it if you kept that kind of snark to yourself and just hit the RTM button if you think one of the mods won't see it themselves.


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#18 fabman_uk

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:32 PM

 

 

 

E

with BioShock Infinite I could easily use the same moves again and again. I really don't have much nice to say about that game.

 

See, I've never had that irk me in a game, mainly because in MOST cases (not just this game), the enemies are Military, or trained, or a 'gang'.

It seems logical to have them behave a certain way.

 

The AI took into it's own when you came up against a Crow, or a Fireman. They learn't VERY quickly, couldn't use the same attack twice.

One fight stuck in my head.

I once got a crow stuck in a VERY small room, reform, shoot, birds, reform, shoot, birds, etc.

After about 3 or 4 injuries like that, he decided to reform behind me, which pushed me forward (I didn't know it could do that!), attack me, and INSTANTLY burst into birds.

From that point, I couldn't get him to reform solidly enough in that room to fight him, I had to go back in the open.

Which is never fun against Crows.

 

Foot soldiers? Yeah, pop em off at a distance, they're just grunts, but it had it's fair share of AI moments.

 

Fighting ghosts too, they stopped coming at me blindly, and took up vantage points to wait for me to come out.......

 

That game on hard, with Adaptive AI turned on was a challenge, I thought.

 

 

Hmmm... I might have to retry it one day.

 

The problem might also be me, whenever I find I a winning strategy in a game, I use it on rinse and repeat, very rarely change from winning tactics to something else for fun.

 

Oh don't get me wrong! Bioshock was no feat of engineering or AI, you can sit back, zoom in, and casually pop people off, but I'm one of those guys who loves to put myself in the shoes of the character.

Booker wouldn't sit in the corner and wait a literal 3 minutes for that guy to move his head the right angle again, when the military are after him.

He'd be kicking it as quick as possible to the next safe spot.

 

Next time, try your best to lose yourself in the character, and see if it helps.

 

If you play slowly and 'calculating' yeah, most AI sucks balls, but to quote one of my favorite movies;

"That's PLAYER knowledge, not CHARACTER knowledge".

 

 

Well when I get the 4K setup finally, I'll want to test a few games, that might look good in 4K.



#19 Chaos.Lady

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 09:36 AM

 

Suspcicious much that you're just replying to a spambot?

 

This account was created the day this thread started, has 1 post and hasn't been logged in since the minute the thread was started.

I ignored your first comment in the thread, but not doing so again.

 

If it's a bot, then cool, they're finally making bots smart enough to post content worth discussing.  If it's not a bot but is a person paid to do the same thing, then whatever.  I had a quick google and didn't see the same content posted anywhere else.

 

If it's not a 'bot', and it is a legitimate new forum member, then I don't see what's to be gained by shitting on their heads, and I'd appreciate it if you kept that kind of snark to yourself and just hit the RTM button if you think one of the mods won't see it themselves.

 

 

Given a mod had already posted in the thread, giving a genuine reply, obviously it had already been seen and decided that it was worth leaving the thread - whether created by bot or newbie.

 

I actually DO have the basic ability to determine that this thread possibly was posted for some unknown reason by someone or something that may or may not be trying to figure out if this forum was ripe for the penis enlargement pickings.  I decided that in this case, it was not really of importance and the possibility of new blood outweighed the possible muscle gain powered ads.  Besides, the question was interesting and I thought it might generate conversation.  Which it has. :)


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#20 Rybags

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Posted 10 September 2017 - 01:41 AM

The way this place is going, the bots will be all that's left posting.

 

Considering my options... why stay at a place where automated spam gets treated better than some long time members.

And mods that only seem to be here to prop up the latest left-wing causes.






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