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Same-sex postal survey is a go


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#21 Cybes

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 01:32 PM

Great, all the churchy people will be petitioning on the streets. I hate those people.

You mean like these folks :

http://www.abc.net.a...arriage/8878680

Yeah, bastards.

That's an exceptional enough event to warrant a story. If it were the norm, nobody woul bother talking about it.

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#22 Nich...

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 01:44 PM

And that's why generalisations don't usually help anyone's case. 


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#23 Jeruselem

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 02:12 PM

 

 

Great, all the churchy people will be petitioning on the streets. I hate those people.

You mean like these folks :

http://www.abc.net.a...arriage/8878680

Yeah, bastards.

That's an exceptional enough event to warrant a story. If it were the norm, nobody woul bother talking about it.

 

 

I meant the evangelists and 7th day mormon types who pester you. It's bad enough I have to wait for a bus near one of these.


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#24 @~thehung

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:17 PM

 

what do you think their play is, really?  i just dont get it.


They want to appear to be taking note of public opinion whilst following the dictates of their own '50s morality.

This is what happens when the upper echelon of your Party is occupied with old Churchy types, and your Constitution has no clause about separation of Church and State.

 


true, but like every other plausible guess this is flimsy at best! :)

because they arent fooling anyone with this shit.  they are placating a minority of bigots and pandering to an even smaller minority of ultra conservative faithful — and everyone knows it. 

 

an election isnt necessarily going to be won or lost over this issue, but they sure think its worth spending a paradoxically large amount of time and energy "proving" how much of a non-issue it is to a portion of the electorate whose significance is highly questionable — while validating its importance to the rest.  that is, no matter the vote tally, they arent going to have their cake and eat it.  if the yes vote is high, its instantly politically toxic since they are beholden to their own power brokers who would see the LNP be the party that institutes gay marriage over their dead bodies.  if not, they have just burnt the very last of their delaying tactics in one giant homophobic house fire, when the genuine political will of the majority isnt going anywhere.  so either way, theyve ensured the high risk of this being an election-losing manoeuvre.  the cost to benefit ratio of this farce just doesnt tally!


Edited by @~thehung, 08 September 2017 - 08:19 PM.

no pung intended

#25 eveln

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:53 PM

"...   the cost to benefit ratio of this farce just doesnt tally "

 

Which is why I reckon the count of the postal vote will go up in flames due to some OTT reason or another. Something will happen which could not have been foreseen and at best the out come of the tally would be ' an educated guess ' at best :P <<< huge amount of irony in using the word "educated" ... lol.


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#26 Cybes

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 09:47 PM

...they arent fooling anyone with this shit.  they are placating a minority of bigots and pandering to an even smaller minority of ultra conservative faithful — and everyone knows it.


Agreed. I didn't say it would work, I said it was their goal. Look at the NBN; do you think these guys know how to see past the tip of their noses? ;p

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#27 Mac Dude

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 08:57 AM

...they arent fooling anyone with this shit.  they are placating a minority of bigots and pandering to an even smaller minority of ultra conservative faithful — and everyone knows it.

Agreed. I didn't say it would work, I said it was their goal. Look at the NBN; do you think these guys know how to see past the tip of their noses? ;p

I see the postal survey and the NBN as two completely different types of stuff ups of completely different magnitudes. :)

The survey is all about the balance of power inside the liberal party and how the 'small l' liberals can get SSM through their own party. And while $120 mill is a lot of money, it's not really when you look at the 'income' of Australia.

The NBN, was all about having a different approach to Rudd coming up to election time. Nobody in their right mind would choose the current solution, but the Libs obviously believed they needed to differentiate their approach. Well they did that. What makes the NBN decision much much much worse is the size of the investment and the long term impact.

In the end you're right though, they are both stuffups.
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#28 Cybes

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 09:51 AM

I see the postal survey and the NBN as two completely different types of stuff ups of completely different magnitudes. :)
...
In the end you're right though, they are both stuffups.


Yes,they're completely different in character, but my point was that they're both indicative of an inability to perceive consequences of their actions.

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#29 chrisg

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 10:23 AM

:)

 

After much stuffing around our NBN SEEMS stable, but if it had been FTTH we would never have had the issues we did.

 

Absolutely moronic way to go about building a new national network.

 

Cheers


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#30 Mac Dude

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:26 AM

I see the postal survey and the NBN as two completely different types of stuff ups of completely different magnitudes. :)
...
In the end you're right though, they are both stuffups.


Yes,they're completely different in character, but my point was that they're both indicative of an inability to perceive consequences of their actions.


Yeah, nah. :)

I don't think they realised how bad the NBN decision was/is but I don't think they care about the path to SSM they have taken. I'm guessing, but I think the 'small l' libs see the postal survey as the only way to get SSM through a finely balanced party room, while the 'big L' libs see it as a possible way to delay it.

Having said that, without being on the inside I'm only guessing...
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#31 eveln

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:38 AM

 

I see the postal survey and the NBN as two completely different types of stuff ups of completely different magnitudes. :)
...
In the end you're right though, they are both stuffups.


Yes,they're completely different in character, but my point was that they're both indicative of an inability to perceive consequences of their actions.

 

Although ;) ... I happen to think there are people, within the pollie circle, who do perceive the possible consequences.... " we'll cross that bridge when we come to it " ... is likely an often used comment . - just not enough of them to over power is all.


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#32 Jeruselem

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:50 AM

Ffs im a mormon magnet ... Grr

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#33 @~thehung

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 05:05 PM

The survey is all about the balance of power inside the liberal party and how the 'small l' liberals can get SSM through their own party.


this is something ive wondered about.

whether or not the social conservatives are being hustled into a gamble that cant end well for them, because Malcolm "this will be a thoroughly liberal [*wink*] government" Turnball and his cronies are taking advantage of what the old guard cant recognise about themselves; that they live in a bubble and their ability to take the temperature of the room (i.e. both the party room and the country at large) is slipping.

 

i do suspect there is a substantial core within the party amenable to placing pragmatism above conservative sympathies on this issue, because they know when to choose their battles, know this one is already lost, and yet the established rules of politicking demand their reluctant participation in a private bill as the only avenue for expressing it.  but would doing so be cutting off their nose to spite their face?


no pung intended

#34 Cybes

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Posted 09 September 2017 - 11:49 PM

i do suspect there is a substantial core within the party amenable to placing pragmatism above conservative sympathies on this issue, because they know when to choose their battles, know this one is already lost, and yet the established rules of politicking demand their reluctant participation in a private bill as the only avenue for expressing it.  but would doing so be cutting off their nose to spite their face?


I actually want to believe that, even though it paints them to be even more slimy - at least Machiavellians are smart. But we're talking about Mr "Laws of Australia trump Laws of Mathematics" here. He might have a silver tongue, but he's a genuine fuckwit.

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#35 eveln

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 08:24 PM

So Barny doesn't want people standing on street corners yelling in his face about the ssm bizness. Don't blame him for that, it's not at all nice to be preached to ;)

Meanwhile our erstwhile leader - who lurves to sip a beer and kiss a baby and cheer his team on, ( bet he'd be a wizz at rubbing his stomach and patting his head simultaneously too) -  he's out there with the people marching and proclaiming his desire for ssm. I think, since the pollies didn't have the balls to go back and fix Howard's cavalier change to our law, nor indeed just sort it in Parliament, they should keep their bloody noses out of it until it actually comes time for them to re-write Howard's bullshit.

 

edit: Just saw a pic of the paper the ABS will start sending out from tomorrow. Anyone want to guess on the number of donkey votes that will happen due to both boxes being marked ?


Edited by eveln, 11 September 2017 - 08:28 PM.

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#36 Mac Dude

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 11:24 PM

edit: Just saw a pic of the paper the ABS will start sending out from tomorrow. Anyone want to guess on the number of donkey votes that will happen due to both boxes being marked ?


Less than 1% ?

Sure there will people who write messages on their survey, but I'm not sure there will be many who mark both boxes. Are 'donkey surveys' even a thing given it's not compulsory?

I'd guess that people who couldn't be bothered just won't bother.
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#37 Nich...

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 12:15 AM

Donkey votes are technically labeling the boxes 1-n in order they appear.


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#38 eveln

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 06:52 AM

Oh I reckon there'll be some who'll be tempted to bother to non-vote since they don't pay for the mailing of it . And I reckon there'll be interest at the ABS end of things to gauge the messed up ones too. But like with the whole idea not being compulsory and all it really won't be a true representation still ;)


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#39 eveln

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:49 PM

Has anyone received their postal vote ballot yet ? Can you see through the envelope ?  This article suggest shining a light on the envelope will allow a person to discern the vote ...

http://www.abc.net.a...h-light/8942876


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#40 Nich...

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 09:16 PM

If people were actually intent on discarding/destroying one vote or the other, wouldn't they just open the envelope?


"I think it is a sad reflection on our civilization that while we can and do measure the temperature in the atmosphere of Venus we do not know what goes on inside our soufflés" -- Nicholas Kurti




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