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Woo! Star trek Discovery! (spoilers, probably)

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#41 eveln

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:12 AM

 

Even Patrick's delivery could not sustain us / me over the consistent use of the holo-deck to make the story for most of the latter episodes. As with most long running shows the writers get stale. Scott and his dog that seemed to live permanently in Scott's tiny cell of a room annoyed me rather a lot. Such total lack of proper care for the animal !

 
Yeah, I never liked the Holodeck. You've already got a show set in a fantastical sci-fi universe with limitless possibilities - and to then have so many stories set in a magical Daydream Land safely on board the ship where nothing has any consequence. Mind-boggling.

You don't like the Holodeck ? I do. Apart from the obvious simulated training possibilities, I don't think people will ever get tired of experiencing a bit of fantasy in their life, whatever the era and technology advancements....

First things first : *waves* good to see your avatar on the page:)

 

It's not that I didn't like the Holodeck, it was that I became less enthralled by it's continuous use to make a show about a ship filled with hundreds of crew travelling through space.

Unless of course it was the aim of the show to say that well space travel is boring cos there's really nothing out there so we use our own inventions to allow us to pretty much go back in time to what ever era we like and insert ourselves into a scene or two ... ;)


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#42 @~thehung

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 07:51 PM

the holodeck had lasting appeal for me simply because it was VR tech wish fulfillment of the highest order, and i'd never seen a show do anything like it. 

 

even so, it did get to the point they were phoning it in.  a wild west episode inside Red Dwarf's Better Than Life is as good a place as any for humour, but its hard to sweat over whether or not Picard eats an imaginary bullet.


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#43 i_am_banned2

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:16 PM

Yeah, too many times I felt like I got served a "and then he woke up and it was all a dream" type of story.



#44 eveln

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:32 PM

That's pretty much my point about it all. The first few times the use of the holodeck was extremely cool. I came to prefer Deep Space Nine. Imagination seemed to be still in use. That and some fun writing too ...


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#45 @~thehung

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 08:47 PM

a bit like whenever Q the omnipotent timelord reared his head in the Star Treks.  its interesting to ponder encountering a ridiculously advanced lifeform, and he had some good moments character-wise — but wizard magic is not a good match for science fiction, and becomes a get out of jail card for lazy writing.

 

a malicious virus that infected minds using the holodeck would be interesting.  or did they actually do that????


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#46 Rybags

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Posted 10 October 2017 - 09:12 PM

No such thing in TNG... from memory the only major malfunction was when Data asked for an adversary that could defeat him and it created Moriarty (from the Sherlock Holmes story) - the malfunction being that holodeck safety protocols were disabled which meant real humans could be injured or killed.  Also, it ignored commands to stop the simulation (?)

 

I don't have a problem with the holodeck - it's not like it was used a lot and is the logical marriage (as we're told) of transporter and replicator technology.


Edited by Rybags, 10 October 2017 - 09:12 PM.


#47 @~thehung

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 05:55 PM

so i got curious and acquired a couple of S:TDs

 

minor gripes:

Spoiler


major gripes:

Spoiler

 

positives:

- its nice to see a scifi show with some serious money behind it.  its pretty slick, and they have all the ingredients there to do something great.

- the chick from TWD is a quality actress, even though she looked a bit shaky.  as long as the character doesnt go full retard she will definitely shine. 

 

all things considered, so far:

6/10 as Star Trek
7/10 for potential as a scifi show with "Star Trek" branding.
 


Edited by @~thehung, 13 October 2017 - 05:58 PM.

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#48 i_am_banned2

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Posted 13 October 2017 - 08:00 PM

The show probably should've started off with episode 3, and told the "prologue" events through occasional flashbacks throughout the series. I'd imagine a lot of people dropped the show during those first two episodes (I almost did).



#49 Rybags

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:32 AM

This bloke gives a good appraisal.  I can't help but agree with so much of what he doesn't like about it.

 



#50 Cybes

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 01:19 PM

This bloke gives a good appraisal.  I can't help but agree with so much of what he doesn't like about it.

 
Believe I mentioned that a few days ago (#27?) I got the impression other peeps here had other opinions.
 
Speaking of...  What did you think of the fan theory?

Edited by Cybes, 14 October 2017 - 01:20 PM.

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#51 @~thehung

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 04:53 PM

 

This bloke gives a good appraisal.  I can't help but agree with so much of what he doesn't like about it.

 
Believe I mentioned that a few days ago (#27?) I got the impression other peeps here had other opinions.

 

that video is 90% petty snark with a liberal dash of nutjob.

i do in fact note a thread of modern identity politics undercurrent in the subtext of this show and do find it most unwelcome for its apparent clunkiness if nothing else, but thats where it ends — at the level of a tentative hypothesis of little import.  its no cause, at least after two episodes, for torch waving hysteria.

but apparently, ST:D is the victim of a "SJW takeover".  yeah, okay.  

the biggest linchpin of this guy's 'analysis' centres on the claim that the 'Federation is attempting to expand into Klingon space', which is a complete misreading of the situation.  its actually the diametric opposite.  but hey, why let the facts get in the way of obsessive projections?  

this guy's focus on reading SJW-driven allegories for real world issues into the writing and casting of this show borders on the pathological.  not only does he indicate he is anti-Black Lives Matter without any qualifying nuance, as if he is assured he is addressing an audience that requires none, he proceeds to offer up gems like these:

the show is "full blown anti-white, and i'm really not exaggerating"

"it could be argued that Discovery is promoting white genocide"

FFS, c'mon

you guys are seriously hitching your wagons to this demented little gobshite?
 


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#52 Rybags

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 05:05 PM

I'm not committing one way or the other as I've not caught up to what's aired so far.

But the reason I'm lagging is that I'm not exactly compelled to throw the next episode on.  Sure, that guy is a bit over the top but the things he gets negative about are genuine issues.

 

Had a quick look on IMDB, the relative ratings of each series does line up somewhat with my feelings on them (though I'd put Voy about par with DS9).  So far this gets a 7.3, lagging behind Ent (7.5), Voy (7.7), DS9 (7.9), TNG (8.6) TOS (8.4)



#53 @~thehung

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 05:57 PM

well hopefully, like i_am_banned2 said, the first two were just a mediocre prologue. 


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#54 i_am_banned2

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 06:14 PM

Give it a chance, you might like it. Four episodes in and I'm enjoying it (more than any other American show at the moment). I'm surprised by the amount of negative hype surrounding this show - it's almost like people are actively willing themselves to dislike it.



#55 Nich...

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 07:53 PM

I loved hearing about the former-gay person complaining that they needed to include something in the show about how evil the gay lifestyle is and it was worth converting away from.

Not sure they understand what TV inclusivity is.
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#56 Cybes

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Posted 14 October 2017 - 11:56 PM

you guys are seriously hitching your wagons to this demented little gobshite?
 


I'm not "hitching" to anything. I just thought it was an interting take, and wanted to see what others thought.

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#57 @~thehung

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 04:05 AM

fair enough.  its just earlier you said videos with titles like that gave you hope for the future.  wasnt sure if you'd even seen the vid, or what you meant.  sarcasm?  delight that discerning fans of Star Trek (proper) must be alive and well?

 

i searched it out but bailed on it — coz spoilers.  where it seemed to be going sounded plausible enough though *sigh*, but i figured if ST:D is in fact demon spawn of the regressive left at least it will be fun to shit on it.  turns out its not nearly that bad (so far...).  i guess that vid just riled me up because i am growing increasingly tired of dissenting voices purporting to cut through all the bullshit who start off making sense but ultimately reveal themselves corrupt in one way or another. 


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#58 Cybes

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 06:10 AM

its just earlier you said videos with titles like that gave you hope for the future.  wasnt sure if you'd even seen the vid, or what you meant.  sarcasm?


The "hope" was inspired by the "truly godawful" title, and was indeed sarcasm - as indicated by the " ;p " emoticon.

As to the "start off making sense" comment... I've determined that to be the usual case in almost every part of human existence except the very small scale (ie: personal - and sometimes even then), and Science - where people make mistakes, but don't usually intentionally lie. Misrepresentation is more common than honesty. I hate that enough to go tothe Dark Side. ;p

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#59 eveln

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 02:07 PM

This bloke gives a good appraisal.  I can't help but agree with so much of what he doesn't like about it.

[ one guys pretty intense take on ST:D]

The only way I'll get to see this is if it comes to Stan ;) ... lol

I could see the Klingons evolving ( in looks ) from this (ST:D) to their future evolutions down the various paths of ST, so the fact of their look here did not concern me.

 

 

 

...
this guy's focus on reading SJW-driven allegories for real world issues into the writing and casting of this show borders on the pathological.  not only does he indicate he is anti-Black Lives Matter without any qualifying nuance, as if he is assured he is addressing an audience that requires none, he proceeds to offer up gems like these:

the show is "full blown anti-white, and i'm really not exaggerating"

"it could be argued that Discovery is promoting white genocide"

...
 

It seems there is evidence of the producers' ,writers' etc. stance against Trump and his alleged / assumed White Supremacists allegiance. I think the guy in the vid was trying to show the difference WRT to the Dem. Pres. Obama and his allegiance to BLM. So, I think it's a little wrong to say he ( the vid guy ) indicated he is anti anything much other than maybe ST:D. ;)

... just sayin'

 

... but also now that I've watched that twenty minute critique I am quite curious to view this series now too ... oh well maybe another go at Netflix, maybe.


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#60 @~thehung

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Posted 15 October 2017 - 09:51 PM

It seems there is evidence of the producers' ,writers' etc. stance against Trump and his alleged / assumed White Supremacists allegiance. I think the guy in the vid was trying to show the difference WRT to the Dem. Pres. Obama and his allegiance to BLM. So, I think it's a little wrong to say he ( the vid guy ) indicated he is anti anything much other than maybe ST:D. ;)
... just sayin'
 
... but also now that I've watched that twenty minute critique I am quite curious to view this series now too ... oh well maybe another go at Netflix, maybe.

 

true. he did not directly state an anti-BLM position. he did, however, draw a false equivalence between White Nationalist groups and Black Lives Matter, as if they are alternate sides of the same coin — an affront to BLM so egregious and deceitful that not even many who are highly critical of BLM wouldnt shirk from.  so it was an easy inference to make. 


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