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iNeed to upgrade - which Intel socket 2066 motherboard?


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#21 g__day

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:42 PM

Thanks for running DSS again - it is a pretty good benchmark for placing stress on your CPU and I/O / RAM components.

 

The registering process for a field of stars looks to identify all the brightest stars on the X-Y grid - and see between each shot how much if at all each is moving across a frame - then aligning all the frames to the best match acording to which shot it thinks has the best signal to noise.  That is the easy bit.  The stacking is very CPU intensive - as its not so much the stars but all the glowing gases between them it is trying to correct add (across all colour channels) to create a master 16 or 32 bit TIF file.  Once you have this you may typically choose to:

 

  1. Align all the colour channels - so at a guess assume there is as much Red, Blue and Green in each shot (generally a bad guess - but great for learning from) - so move each colur peak distribution curve until they overlap.
  2. Play with the Dark, Dim, fait and bright zones of you combined shots - so here you are moving the light curve so it only starts to detect once you are partly into each colur curves' distribution curve - basically throwing out the crap signal that is too faint to bother with, boost the middle and reduce the brightest areas
  3. Add generally 15 - 22% saturation in case all your colour channels are too washed out
  4. Now once you press process it can take some time - generally about 3 minute 20 seconds on my rig for 30 light frames - from memory my kid's I5 PC did this in around 2 minutes 30 seconds - so not a huge leap.  Interested what more cores does to the timeframe - I guess it scales very linearly as I would say its dividing all the photo X-Y grid into smaller rectangles and throwing each to a different core.

I still have one more PC (the office PC) to upgrade - so next year it might get a Threadripper to contrast Intel to AMD.


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#22 Nich...

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 01:49 PM

If Intel does a big comeback, I don't see how it'll be using the same motherboards as used for lower core chips.

If AMD do need a socket upgrade if you want to swap in a better CPU in a year or two, the total spend is still likely to be less, right?

The big things I'd be looking at in terms of which microarchitecture to lock yourself in to are whether the software you use supports any specific instructions that are mutually exclusive.


Depending on your contacts/networks, if you're right and there are no real consultants doing this kind of build for this kind of market segment, you could potentially try contacting AMD and Intel and talking about a benchmark system to test workflows, and see if you can score free/discounted kit?


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#23 g__day

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 04:19 PM

Wouldn't that be something!  Totally agree that a socket change could happen in a year or two.  Once you swap from Desktop to Server CPU Xeon Platinum vs AMD Eypc seems rather stunning - AMD are really taking it to them


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#24 Dasa

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:34 PM

Ok typing this on phone since the fiber is broken near sheparton
Dss is very different to the software I first benchmarked

Dss doesn't care about io beyond a good sata ssd or ram sped at all 2133 vs 3800 takes the same amount of time
Ht doesn't help reduce the time it takes even though it is using 100% of the cpu
If anything using ram drive and ht makes it slower

Coppied the images from this morning so now working with 22 light
4:41 to register 22 images
2:41 to stack them
30s to rebuild image after adjusting rgb

Limiting dss to three cores with afinity slowed stacking to 3:01

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#25 SceptreCore

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 08:53 PM

If Intel does a big comeback, I don't see how it'll be using the same motherboards as used for lower core chips.

If AMD do need a socket upgrade if you want to swap in a better CPU in a year or two, the total spend is still likely to be less, right?

The big things I'd be looking at in terms of which microarchitecture to lock yourself in to are whether the software you use supports any specific instructions that are mutually exclusive.


Depending on your contacts/networks, if you're right and there are no real consultants doing this kind of build for this kind of market segment, you could potentially try contacting AMD and Intel and talking about a benchmark system to test workflows, and see if you can score free/discounted kit?

Free kit sounds good.

 

AMD might also be announcing new chps soon. It's all going to 12nm.. and we might be seeing new Ryzen stuff or at least announcements by February. That will let us know if TR4 socket will continue to be supported... which I fully expect it to, and it might bring prices down for the first gen stuff.


Edited by SceptreCore, 11 November 2017 - 08:59 PM.

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#26 g__day

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Posted 11 November 2017 - 11:19 PM

Just imagine days when CPU cores are light switched - ten times the speed of electron travel, minimial heat multi cores galore.  Expect to see it in our lifetimes!


Edited by g__day, 12 November 2017 - 11:08 PM.

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#27 Dasa

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:20 AM

it seems the settings used can have a huge effect on how multithreaded the software is

registering images can be almost completely single threaded or change a few settings and it takes twice as long due to computing the master files for dark\flat ect. which would be done in the blink of the eye with some settings but can take a minute or two each with modified settings which is a process that can make use of multiple cores

 

last night i downloaded these images to use

The Orion Nebula
34 Lights
15 Darks
25 Flats
25 Dark Flats

http://www.rawastrod...=nebulae&id=m42

 

the feeling im getting from using this software at the moment is that extra cores will bring less than half the improvement they would bring when rendering a video

 

 

Edit:

streamed a video of settings and cpu usage

 

registering

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/200558794

stacking and adjusting image

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/200562763


Edited by Dasa, 12 November 2017 - 11:03 AM.

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#28 g__day

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 12:26 PM

So I just tried once again for fun... on NGC 5137 - with 16 shots ranging in duration from 60 seconds to about 10 minutes.  This subject has about 17,000 stars in it - so its a headache for DSS.  DSS took about an hour simply to register all the star fields - then of course my PC crashed before it stacked the shots.  My core temps were up around 71 degrees = wow! CPU usage even with a deep virus scan running in the background was only 70%???  and I/O wasn't that high either???  so this is only 160MB of data to process - I didn't include any darks, bias, flat files etc - just to keep it simple as possible.

 

Warrants more investigation later today!


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#29 SceptreCore

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:15 PM

the feeling im getting from using this software at the moment is that extra cores will bring less than half the improvement they would bring when rendering a video

 

 

Edit:

streamed a video of settings and cpu usage

 

registering

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/200558794

stacking and adjusting image

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/200562763

I wonder if we could get an idea of how much effect HT has on it, whether we're actually getting +50% compute perf? Might be worth a try with HT disabled?

 

You can also definitely see the I/O bottleneck there... the cores waiting for the disk to load the files. NVMe RAID would be SWEeT!


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#30 Dasa

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 08:48 PM

tried disable ht it made no difference if anything it was quicker with it off

dss is not actually io limited just switching between single threaded work load and multithreaded work load

i setup a ram drive and it didn't help and if you look at the disk usage in the video other than a few seconds when first opening and saving the files there isn't much in it so a single nvme drive should be sweet

 

so dss is very different in its requirements to the pixinsight benchmark


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#31 g__day

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 09:38 PM

Guys Hot damn those videos were great to watch - thank you!  Never realised that Registering appears more single threaded and stacking multi threaded.  ALso seeing you play with the Luminance levels after stacking and how fast it redrew was impressive to watch - that is at least twice as fast as mine!

 

M42 - Oriin Nebulae had about I think while I was watching the registering process about 120 stars detected - so a global cluster like Omega Cluster - where stars number in the high thousands up to 15,000 will be a pain methinks!

 

Interesting to watch memory, CPU amd I/O - that was really a treat thanks so much Dasa!  I have put a request in to joing the Deep Sky Stacker group on Facebook - I want to ask them some questions on speed of processing tips and PC gear recommended!


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#32 Dasa

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 10:20 PM

ALso seeing you play with the Luminance levels after stacking and how fast it redrew was impressive to watch - that is at least twice as fast as mine!

seems that is mostly single threaded ipc with which my mild 4.6ghz oc will be helping a bit

the fastest cpu for that would be a 8600k\8700k overclocked to ~5ghz

but obviously a cpu with more cores will complete the stacking quicker

unfortunately it would be a bit of a weak point for threadripper

 

you have me tempted to step outside with my sisters d750 and snap a few shots of the stars

she has some nice very nice fixed lenses from wide angle up to a big old 600mm zoom and being in a remote location its 15k to the nearest small town emitting any light pollution


Edited by Dasa, 12 November 2017 - 10:27 PM.

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#33 g__day

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Posted 12 November 2017 - 11:07 PM

Oh that could be brilliant - dark skies to die for!

 

If you even did 15 - 30 second shots on a tripod there would not be noticeable star trails!


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#34 SceptreCore

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:08 PM

 

ALso seeing you play with the Luminance levels after stacking and how fast it redrew was impressive to watch - that is at least twice as fast as mine!

seems that is mostly single threaded ipc with which my mild 4.6ghz oc will be helping a bit

the fastest cpu for that would be a 8600k\8700k overclocked to ~5ghz

but obviously a cpu with more cores will complete the stacking quicker

unfortunately it would be a bit of a weak point for threadripper

 

you have me tempted to step outside with my sisters d750 and snap a few shots of the stars

she has some nice very nice fixed lenses from wide angle up to a big old 600mm zoom and being in a remote location its 15k to the nearest small town emitting any light pollution

 

Someone buy the 8600K on PCCG before it sells!

 

EDIT: Great work Dasa


Edited by SceptreCore, 13 November 2017 - 06:25 PM.

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#35 SceptreCore

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 06:23 PM

 

You can pick up a windows 10 Pro license key from G2Deal.com for like $15

 

Total: $3537

Edited by SceptreCore, 13 November 2017 - 09:02 PM.

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#36 g__day

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Posted 13 November 2017 - 11:23 PM

That certainly isn't a bad build spec - when you downgrade the CPU - the motherboard gets considerably cheaper - you can get by with a smaller PSU, cooler, case and retain much of what I want to do.  Equally moving up from the 7820 to the I9 - costs you $500 for two extra cores, extra PCIE lanes and cache.  Not really justified in my case.  I will probably only add in 2-3 SSDs and 3-4 HDDs  once I confirm whether one or more of them are failing.

 

Which leads me to - is there any really good software to tell if a Seagate HDD is occassionally prone to fail?


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#37 SceptreCore

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 08:02 PM

That certainly isn't a bad build spec - when you downgrade the CPU - the motherboard gets considerably cheaper - you can get by with a smaller PSU, cooler, case and retain much of what I want to do.  Equally moving up from the 7820 to the I9 - costs you $500 for two extra cores, extra PCIE lanes and cache.  Not really justified in my case.  I will probably only add in 2-3 SSDs and 3-4 HDDs  once I confirm whether one or more of them are failing.

 

Which leads me to - is there any really good software to tell if a Seagate HDD is occassionally prone to fail?

Well I certainly wouldn't choose that myself... but I know that you like a flashy Gigabyte motherboard so I chose that... but you can definitely go something cheaper. You could even downgrade to a 1080 or 1070 Ti if you don't need the maximum of framerates. You don't even need RGB RAM... but they look so pretty. 


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#38 Dasa

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 10:59 PM

your original plan for 7820x may not have been a bad one really it hits a decent middle ground for dss with two extra cores and slightly slower game performance and lower max oc

7820X $700
Asus TUF X299 Mark 2 $340

CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) CMK32GX4M4E4133C19R $614 <newegg
Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Aorus OC 11GB $956
Samsung 960 PRO 512GB M.2 $319.2
HGST Ultrastar He8 HUH728080ALN600 8TB $492 <newegg
Corsair HX Series Modular HX750 750W 80 Plus Platinum $175 <ample power
Fractal Design Define R5 $155 < better airflow & quieter
Noctua NH-D15 $114 <quieter
$3865


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#39 Jeruselem

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:53 AM

I would love one of those i9s, since I run vms on my pc. Some full windows servers.

Having trouble with A [?]OS11.1?

 

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#40 SceptreCore

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Posted 17 November 2017 - 09:24 PM

your original plan for 7820x may not have been a bad one really it hits a decent middle ground for dss with two extra cores and slightly slower game performance and lower max oc

7820X $700
Asus TUF X299 Mark 2 $340

CORSAIR Vengeance LPX 32GB (4 x 8GB) CMK32GX4M4E4133C19R $614 <newegg
Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 1080 Ti Aorus OC 11GB $956
Samsung 960 PRO 512GB M.2 $319.2
HGST Ultrastar He8 HUH728080ALN600 8TB $492 <newegg
Corsair HX Series Modular HX750 750W 80 Plus Platinum $175 <ample power
Fractal Design Define R5 $155 < better airflow & quieter
Noctua NH-D15 $114 <quieter
$3865

Yes but it's poor value compare to compared to Ryzen. Save $500 and get the R7 1700?

 


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