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#121 eveln

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 04:30 PM

This thread desperately needs some input from Director.

I reckon it would add to the variety of views here.

 

 

 

http://www.abc.net.a...cy-hack/9368056

"One of Japan's largest digital currency exchanges has lost hundreds of millions of dollars worth of virtual money after hackers broke into its network.

... What is NEM?

It's a cryptocurrency, just like bitcoin or ethereum.

According to The Verge, it's the eighth largest cryptocurrency in the world by volume.

At the moment, Coincheck says the theft has been limited to NEM, but after announcing the theft it restricted dealings in most other cryptocurrencies too..."

 

I won't pretend I understand NEM any more than I do Bitcoin, but I don't see them being any or much safer than the currency or banks I grew up with. Honestly, just all seems like a new way to get scammed is all.

And as I don't have enough money to be bored by traditional scammers trying it on with my limited resources now. I think I won't be all that involved with cryptocurrencies, hopefully.

 

That ABC article left out one detail. CoinCheck left the NEM in low security wallets. For some reason the mainstream press left this out their reporting.

 

https://cointelegrap...m-team-confirms

 

As Cointelegraph reported on January 26, $534 million worth of XEM were stolen from low security hot wallet that lacked multi-signature security measures. During a press conference covered by Cointelegraph, Coincheck executives stated that all of the funds were stored in a hot wallet or an online wallet, which left user funds vulnerable to the security breach.

 

and

 

“Hack update: NEM is creating an automated tagging system that will be ready in 24-48 hours. This automated system will follow the money and tag any account that receives tainted money. NEM has already shown exchanges how to check if an account has been tagged. So the good news is that the money that was hacked via exchanges can't leave,” said a NEM spokesperson.

 

It's a wild world in the web.


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#122 Jeruselem

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Posted 28 January 2018 - 04:48 PM

Note CoinCheck admitted the breach very soon after the event, if it was a bank ...it would be covered up and hope no one noticed.


Edited by Jeruselem, 28 January 2018 - 04:48 PM.

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#123 SquallStrife

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Posted 29 January 2018 - 08:31 AM

But also a bank has insurance for these types of events.

Good luck getting your electronic DunningKrugerRands insured!
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#124 RenascentMisanthropy

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Posted 01 February 2018 - 12:15 PM

Real estate, not going to argue
But at least you own something

 

That's a good point


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#125 Jeruselem

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 10:22 PM

For those mining or buying or trading crypto

https://www.ato.gov....ically-bitcoin/

 

For folks just mining

 

Mining bitcoin

Where you are in the business of mining bitcoin, any income that you derive from the transfer of the mined bitcoin to a third party would be included in your assessable income. Any expenses incurred in respect to the mining activity would be allowed as a deduction. Losses you make from the mining activity may also be subject to the non-commercial loss provisions.

Bitcoin held by a taxpayer carrying on a business of mining and selling bitcoin, will be considered to be trading stock. You are required to bring to account any bitcoin on hand at the end of each income year.

GST is payable on the supply of bitcoin made in the course or furtherance of your bitcoin mining enterprise. Input tax credits may be available for acquisitions made in carrying on your bitcoin mining enterprise.


Edited by Jeruselem, 05 March 2018 - 10:27 PM.

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#126 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:15 AM

For those mining or buying or trading crypto

https://www.ato.gov....ically-bitcoin/

 

For folks just mining

 

Mining bitcoin

Where you are in the business of mining bitcoin, any income that you derive from the transfer of the mined bitcoin to a third party would be included in your assessable income. Any expenses incurred in respect to the mining activity would be allowed as a deduction. Losses you make from the mining activity may also be subject to the non-commercial loss provisions.

Bitcoin held by a taxpayer carrying on a business of mining and selling bitcoin, will be considered to be trading stock. You are required to bring to account any bitcoin on hand at the end of each income year.

GST is payable on the supply of bitcoin made in the course or furtherance of your bitcoin mining enterprise. Input tax credits may be available for acquisitions made in carrying on your bitcoin mining enterprise.

 

 

LOL, because THAT will work with a Crypto Currency, ROFL.

 

The only reason this would work would be if someone is silly enough to try and take Crypto Into 'Real' Money, which is entirely NOT the point.


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#127 Jeruselem

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:30 AM

Hey I didn't write those stupid laws LOL

 

Got like 0.002 ETH mined if they want to tax that ... hey (it's about $USD 2)


Edited by Jeruselem, 06 March 2018 - 09:35 AM.

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#128 SquallStrife

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 09:38 AM

The only reason this would work would be if someone is silly enough to try and take Crypto Into 'Real' Money, which is entirely NOT the point.


If that's not the point, then what IS the point?

You can't buy stuff without turning your butts into real dollars at some point.

Whether you do that at Magic The Gathering Online eXchange, or your vendor does it through BitPay or similar, you're making a payment.

If you're burning through electricity and computer parts with no view to ever "spend" your butts, then why do it in the first place?
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#129 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 10:07 AM

 

The only reason this would work would be if someone is silly enough to try and take Crypto Into 'Real' Money, which is entirely NOT the point.

If that's not the point, then what IS the point?
You can't buy stuff without turning your butts into real dollars at some point.
Whether you do that at Magic The Gathering Online eXchange, or your vendor does it through BitPay or similar, you're making a payment.
If you're burning through electricity and computer parts with no view to ever "spend" your butts, then why do it in the first place?

 

I hate these terms because it lumps me in with a certain crowd i'd prefer not to be associated with; but its the correct term.... eugh...

 

FIAT currency is traceable, taxable, and all the other negative words suffixed with 'able you wish to think of.

If you trade me invisible bitcoins, and I send you my Sega Megadrive collection, all "they" know is that I just posted a box to someone.

 

buying goods (or services) is very different to changing it into FIAT currency.

 

Really, the banks are fucking genius agreeing to 'trade' in bitcoin.

Slowly but surely people will 'cash out' and the fact that their bank lets them, will mean the bank ends up with all the coins, and bye bye 'free trade', WE control all the bitcoins now.

 

Catch22 for them, is that 'we' can always make a NEW currency, but you never know which will boom, and you need a worldwide push like bitcoin had to have the same impact.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#130 Jeruselem

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:00 AM

http://www.abc.net.a...urrency/9510064

 

ATO now worried about the crypto losses claimed ... you twats wrote the laws, take hit ATO.


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#131 SquallStrife

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:23 AM

FIAT currency is traceable, taxable, and all the other negative words suffixed with 'able you wish to think of.
If you trade me invisible bitcoins, and I send you my Sega Megadrive collection, all "they" know is that I just posted a box to someone.


This isn't new. It's called barter. Before buttcoins I might have offered you some of my SNES collection in exchange. Or to help fix your car. Or some of the mangoes from my orchard that I spend time tending to.



Consider: You mine buttcoins and trade buttcoins for a Ferrari, but then you fall on hard times and have to sell your Ferrari to pay your rates, water, and child support. This person reported no income but had a Ferrari to sell. Hello audit.

Hence, bitcoins are treated as non-liquid assets. No different to hoarding gold bricks.

"We" can make a new currency, but eventually you, or somebody, needs to liquidate it.
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#132 Jeruselem

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 11:28 AM

They are "intangible" assets ... just like stock market assets (shares, ETFs, Bonds, Bills, CFDs, Securables, securitized assets), you can't hold them physically but they are assets.


Edited by Jeruselem, 06 March 2018 - 11:33 AM.

“We’re not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.” - Daenerys Targaryen

 

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#133 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 12:40 PM

 

Consider: You mine buttcoins and trade buttcoins for a Ferrari, but then you fall on hard times and have to sell your Ferrari to pay your rates, water, and child support. This person reported no income but had a Ferrari to sell. Hello audit.

 

 

Actually this is wrong, at least in my experience.

Nothing like that should flag an Audit, because selling personal possessions is not a taxable action.

When the ATO asks, you just list it as "selling personal assets".

 

We've been in this circumstance a lot, because my dad restores hotrods.

So there are tons of "Want this free rusted shell?" followed by "Thanks for the beer, Oh, have these old rims".

And since dad builds a lot of rat-rods, often 'car parts' are offcuts from the building supplies he uses.

So it's really not uncommon to see $0 become $60k+, You just declare "$60k, selling private assets" and that's done. Non taxable.

 

By your logic, (and I guess technically true) your definition of barter means that handing you cash is ALSO barter.

Trading one item for another. Be it AUD or BTC, if one is barter, so is the other.


Edited by Master_Scythe, 06 March 2018 - 12:41 PM.

Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#134 SquallStrife

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:01 PM

...and if obtaining shells and restoring them becomes more than a hobby, and flipping cars becomes a primary source of income, you now need to record-keep that flow of value.

Buying a case of beer to trade for a shell becomes a business expense, you get a GST credit for it. Putting in the work and selling it for a profit attracts business tax. Wages paid to yourself attract income tax.

To be legal, it's all accounted for.

Substituting beers and shells for butttcoins is immaterial.

Substituting dollars for buttcoins just makes your recordkeeping harder.
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#135 Rybags

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:05 PM

It's ASIC that'll flag you first in most cases.  The trick is, keep transactions under $10K.



#136 scruffy1

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:13 PM

smurfing, anyone ?


ummmmmmmmmmm............


#137 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 01:17 PM

...and if obtaining shells and restoring them becomes more than a hobby, and flipping cars becomes a primary source of income, you now need to record-keep that flow of value.

 

Never has.

One car every 5 or so years is far from the primary income.

 

Just like 1 Ferrari in 1 lifetime would also be.


Wherever you go in life, watch out for Scythe, the tackling IT support guy.

"I don't care what race you are, not one f*cking bit, if you want to be seen as a good people, you go in there and you f*ck up the people who (unofficially) represent you in a negative light!"


#138 SquallStrife

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:47 PM

...in which case it wouldn't have mattered if you'd used cash (in lieu of buttcoins) in the first place.

So I re-iterate, if the point of buttcoins is not simply as an alternative store of value, then what is the point?

Even if you personally only use them for barter, somewhere along the line, somebody is going to need to exchange them for fiat to pay tax. Without the ability to do that, they are pointless. You might as well just use cash.

People mining buttcoins are simply making a long-winded conversion of fiat to butts, vicariously through their power bill (or by stealing someone else's power).
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#139 Jeruselem

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 03:54 PM

Mining in Australia isn't viable really due to our super duper higher power costs but in Chinese where there's cheap coal power and gignomous solar farms, it is.


Edited by Jeruselem, 06 March 2018 - 04:37 PM.

“We’re not going to stop the wheel. I’m going to break the wheel.” - Daenerys Targaryen

 

"We have some of the most beautiful hookers in the world" - Putin to Trump


#140 @~thehung

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Posted 06 March 2018 - 05:32 PM

very well edited together RADIOLAB podcast, discussing the birth of the cryptocurrency Zcash with its founder and the journalist who was riding along for the wacky paranoiac rituals enacted to establish trust

webpage: http://www.radiolab....story/ceremony/

stream the audio

download the mp3
 

---
The Ceremony


Last November, journalist Morgen Peck showed up at her friend Molly Webster's apartment in Brooklyn, told her to take her battery out of her phone, and began to tell her about The Ceremony, a moment last fall when a group of, well, let's just call them wizards, came together in an undisclosed location to launch a new currency. It's an undertaking that involves some of the most elaborate security and cryptography ever done (so we've been told). And math. Lots of math. It was all going great until, in the middle of it, something started to behave a little...strangely.

Reported by Molly Webster. Produced by Matt Kielty and Molly Webster. Denver Ceremony station recordings were created by media maker Nathaniel Kramer, with help from Daniel Cooper.

Guests: Morgen Peck, Peter Todd, Peter Van Valkenburgh and Zooko Wilcox


no pung intended




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