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revisiting peltiers


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#1 Master_Scythe

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 04:46 PM

So, bringing back some EXTREME into the cooling scene.... in the form of EXTRA MILD! lol

 

OK, so, we've all established that Peltiers are generally a 'bad idea'™, they use too much power, they often dont have enough thermal mass to STAY cool on top of a modern CPU, and so on and so forth.

 

But I got to thinking;

Now that we have 240mm radiators (especially AIO sealed systems), would a tiny peltier cooler, with the cold side against the rad (or reservoir, if you're so lucky) make a single degree of difference?

 

Lets say, I had my fans in a suck through,  blow out configuration.

 

Outside air | Case wall | <Fan< | Radiator | rest of case internals.

 

Would I see a single degree of improvement by going:

 

Outside air | Case wall | <Fan< | peltier | Radiator | rest of case internals.

Obviously with the cold side against the Rad.

 

You may have noticed over the years, my goal in modding is being well above par, and rarely the very best (like no one ever was).

 

As such, if this idea cools the radiator by, say, 5*C better than someone else in the same room without a peltier, I'd call it a win.

 

Ideas? Thoughts?


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#2 Dasa

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:00 PM

so what will the hot and cold side of the peltier be in contact with exactly?

are you talking about sitting the cold side of the tec against the rad fins blocking some of the airflow?

 

if you had a second aio on the hot side of the tec and the cold side of the tec on the res then maybe it would drop loop temps by a c or two but then so might just running the rad from that second aio in the loop

 

there has been loops in the past that had tec strapped to waterblocks acting as a heat exchanger  being the only thing cooling the primary loop while a second loop had all the rads on the hot side of the tec

with enough tech and high power consumption they could drop temps rather low but without control they could freeze the loop at idle or get to hot under load

 

there is some interesting info here although old it was a forum section dedicated to tec

http://www.xtremesys...4-T-E-C-Cooling


Edited by Dasa, 05 February 2018 - 07:28 PM.

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#3 Rybags

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 07:05 PM

My problem with the things - I see possibilty of condensation, room being taken up and not much efficiency in return.

 

I saw one of those USB fridges for like 5 bucks a few weeks ago and almost grabbed it.  Though of course a pissy 3 Watts (if that) of cooling might be good for a not too busy northbridge and little else (the plan being that I'd probably have pulled it apart and used the peltier on some old disposable thing).



#4 Master_Scythe

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:19 AM

Sort of the idea Rybags, I mean if the roomtemp is 25*C and a peltier manages to reach 20*C on the cold side, doesn the loop behave like it's in a cooler room? Because that'd be the sort of exact thing I'd like.

 

Yes Dasa, I was considering blocking some of the fins, since my 240mm AIO laughs at my 5ghz OC, it's not even getting above 20% fan and pump speed.

Thanks for the link, thats very helpful.

 

Speaking of interesting cooling tricks, are there any decent hybrid waterblocks these days?

I recall back in the day there were a few unique "Normal Fins" on to of a waterblock; The idea being that the CPU would get water convection cooling, as well as Air convection cooling (usually with a slow speed fan added) in the hopes of dissipating some heat before it reaches the loop, so the loop had to deal with less total heat.

 

Sort of like what GPU's are doing?

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#5 SquallStrife

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:15 AM

It's not something you could run flat out either. Ry already mentioned condensation, and that's a huge issue in QLD where it gets super humid.

You'd want to control the plate with a thermostat, that turns the element off when the cold side gets to dew point.

The returns would hardly be worth the effort.
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#6 Rybags

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 09:30 AM

Yep... I'm not entirely happy ATM having a machine with a third of a litre of engine coolant sitting idle on the other side of the room with it's potential for trouble.

My preference is something that's simple and as failsafe as possible.



#7 Master_Scythe

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 11:29 AM

Yep... I'm not entirely happy ATM having a machine with a third of a litre of engine coolant sitting idle on the other side of the room with it's potential for trouble.

My preference is something that's simple and as failsafe as possible.

 

You should look into solid state passive cooling

 


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#8 Rybags

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 03:31 PM

The watercooled thing was a cheap purchase for the sake of having a watercooled machine... a possible plan is to take the thing out and modify it for LGA1150.

 

The shitbox Dell workstation I have is sort of passive...the CPU heatsink is fanless and it relies on controlling 2 case fans up front to blow over it.  Though ultimately it's pretty pathetic and as stock would hit the 90s without too much going on.  So I gave it a ziptied fan directly on the HSF to help out.

 

These days given I have a non-K Haswell the only thing to worry about is just keeping it reasonable which is pretty easy.  Most of the noise usually comes from the graphics card fan.



#9 Master_Scythe

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 04:27 PM

Heh, yeah I hear ya there. Its why I went AIO water cooling, sealed tubes are so much less likely to leak.

It sounds like peltiers are just too much of a hassle still.

 

It only came to me because I had one of those USB powered fridges on my desk, that barely gets below room temp and thought 'Gee, if I even scrape off 1*C, that's 1*C i'm better off'

But yeah, too much trouble.

 

Thanks for the brain exercise everyone :)


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#10 Rybags

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 04:53 PM

There's just certain PC "advice" that's become staple but is bullshit.

 

Like the "put the failing HDD in the freezer" trick.

 

I did that.  You pull the thing out and immediately it's covered in condensation.  Wipe it with a towel, no difference.

What you'd probably need to do is attach a Sata cable then bag the HDD sealing as much air out as possible.  Then seal the host end of the Sata cable.

Then leave the HDD in the bag and hope that the host end of the Sata cable doesn't get all wet.

And even with all that, I doubt it'd help a great deal.

 

ed --- alternatively, just leave it in the freezer and have the cable hanging out.


Edited by Rybags, 08 February 2018 - 05:07 PM.


#11 Master_Scythe

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Posted 09 February 2018 - 08:45 AM

I've seen many a 'PC in a fridge' build.

 

As you say, the time between fridge off, and door open though, is DAYS to avoid condensation.


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#12 Jeruselem

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 08:44 PM

Condensation is the real problem.
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#13 mykl_c

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:07 PM

I don't think peltiers have anywhere near the efficiency needed in current systems. iirc, they produce about 3x the amount of heat they remove (could be way off).


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