Speed VS Quantity, The Epic RAM debate continue Options

[Count]

Ok, since i trust you guys a bit more then random smatterings of searches on the web, I'm posing my question here :)

I am at a crossroads, got a new box design in mind, core i7 2600K, Z86X-UD3R-B3 mobo, now ram.

I wanted off the bat to try and get 32gb of PC-17000 (2133mhz) stuff for my box... no 8gb dimms, no big deal, I'll settle for 2 4s until the 8s come around and then upgrade for a total of 24 (I have 4gb in my curernt box, 8 will be a step up no matter what).

anyway, I'm told that I'll never notice the difference between PC-17000 and PC12800 (1600mhz) stuff and that I'm just wasting money.

Normally I would look at this and go, "hrm, cheape, no difference easy decision there", but in this case, Pc12800 also only has 4gb dimms as the largest size. So my choice now comes down to this.

Which should i settle for? More at the lower speed, or less at the higher speed? I will still only be buying two Dimms at this time (I can get 8gb dimms for the 1333 stuff, but that is barely faster then my current box's speed).

Bear in mind that I'd probably go full out and buy 16gb of the lower stuff off the bat and then eventually have to waste it when the 8gb dimms come along, or I can buy the 8gb of the faster stuff now and wait it out.

[Xen]

Are you planning on overclocking and do you need or could possible see yourself needing that much RAM in the future?

[Count]

Not overclocking, but I do heavily involve myself in gaming, video editing and 3d graphics, so the ram could presumably be heavily utilized.

Though the reason i went for the K series chip was so i could haev the option of overclocking to extending the performance life of the system once it starts being superceded by new gen chips... so i can lengthen the time before i'd need a new upgrade.

This post has been edited by Count: Nov 1 2011, 02:01 PM

[A Hitman]

What applications do you use?
Some see more benefit from faster ram and some see more from a greater capacity.

[Xen]

What applications do you use?
Some see more benefit from faster ram and some see more from a greater capacity.

I found that unless I'm overclocking the extra speed doesn't do me any good but a couple of extra gig help alot.

I'm mainly doing systems stuff with VirtualBox though so i does depend on what count is running but i'd more say the amount would matter more.

[Count]

Maya, mainly, and most of the Adobe CS Master suite (particular mentions to After effects... heavy on renderings).

RAM wise, I've resolved to buy 8gb dimms as soon as they're available anyway, for an upgrade from 8gb to 24gb (mobo can handle 32 tops), but I really need to know if the frequencies are _that_ noticable.

[GhostFaceKilla]

First - you will never need more than 8Gb of Ram for pretty much everything youve mentioned. 4GB will do 90% of the things youve mentioned. So dont get too hung up the Dimm sizes.

Second - you will see virtually no real world increase in performnace in using RAM at 2133Mhz. You MIGHT if you are lucky gain ONE (1) single frame in a game. For real. Theres a review floating around the web. Someone linked to it in this thread in another post (OK here is the other thread which contains lots of info and links to the RAM comparisons http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index.php?showtopic=43998 ). With Sandy Bridge, DDR3 and a 64Bit OS RAM just aint the bottleneck it once was (if it was ever a real bottleneck).

Third - are you overclocking? then again dont get the RAM at 2133Mhz. It is unstable when overclocking. You will have to constantly UNDERCLOCK that RAM to get a stable OC on the CPU. 1600MHZ RAM overclock like a champ up to those same speeds in line with your CPU while being able to keep the timings at nice levels.

Fourth - on that MOBO the RAM will not run at those speeds by default - you will have to select its profile in the XMP category in the BIOS. Even then things may not be quite stable. Check the mobo specs againt to ensure that the mobo can even handle ram at that speed without an agressive overclock. The Mobo might not be able to handle that speed ram.

Of course if you want to get it then go ahead. You may gain one frame per second in a game and you might be able to overclock the Ram slightly higher. CAS timings are probably more important though at the moment rather than raw Mhz.
My recomenvdations:

Get 8GB of DDR 3 1600Mhz Ram at either CAS 8 or CAS 9. Youll be set.
CAS 8 is more expensive thtn CAS 9 and the difference iin real world speed between CAS 8 or 9 is negligible. 1600Mhz CAS 9 Ripjaws X overclock brilliantly btw pretty much up to 2133 Mhz speeds.




This post has been edited by GhostFaceKilla: Nov 1 2011, 05:21 PM

[nesquick]

really at the end of the day I bet you it would end up cheaper and faster buying a SB-E setup when its released and 8x4gb sticks of ram over buying 4x8gb sticks for your 1155 setup.

[smakme7757]

I was running 8GB 8-8-8-24 1866Mhz ram and have now switched over to 16GB 9-9-9-24 1600Mhz ram and i can't notice a thing except that my VMs get a crap load more ram to play with! Go for quantity because 16/24GB @ 1600Mhz is still very fast ram. As other have said unless you run software which is very reliant on RAM speeds then you won't get any tangible difference.

[A Hitman]

really at the end of the day I bet you it would end up cheaper and faster buying a SB-E setup when its released and 8x4gb sticks of ram over buying 4x8gb sticks for your 1155 setup.

Except the motherboards and processors will be several times more expensive?

[Count]

Interesting, so the speeds are essentially irrelevant due to the minimal performance difference.

Ok, next question, anyone know if there's any 8gb DIMMs for 1600 floating around anywhere? Cause Maya and AE will eat 16gb of ram and beg for more when rendering 1080p sequences. :)

EDIT: Or even some 4gb sticks, I dont want to buy 4 lots of 2 only to replace them later.
EDIT2: NVM, found some.

So, Pc-12800 with 9-9-9-24 is worthwhile, as opposed to PC17000 with 11-11-11-24?

The mobo I'm looking at supports the frequency of 2133, but you guys seem to be implying that it wont natively support that - i'd have to screw with the overclocking settings to get it to run at that rate?

This post has been edited by Count: Nov 2 2011, 09:10 AM

[smakme7757]

The mobo I'm looking at supports the frequency of 2133, but you guys seem to be implying that it wont natively support that - i'd have to screw with the overclocking settings to get it to run at that rate?

All Intel CPUs officially support 1066/1333Mhz DDR3 and the latest Bulldozer AMD CPUs support 1866Mhz officially. But they will all "Unofficially" support 2133Mhz ram.

This post has been edited by smakme7757: Nov 2 2011, 06:54 PM

[james91]

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_p...oducts_id=18585 8GB single stick $269 1600mhz corsair vengeance ram.

[kikz]

I'm running the same mobo and CPU as the OP, with 16GB 1600Mhz of Corsair Vengence ram. You won't notice the diff with faster RAM. I thought you wouldn't get 2133 out of it in a Z68 unless u overclock and fudge around.

Either way, 32GB is maybe excessive?

[Count]

Thanks for the help folks, james, those Corsair dimms are ridiculously expensive now, I'l probably wait till Gskill release theirs or the price comes down in general. 8 should suffice for the moment.

kikz: thanks for that in particular, good to know the setup works, I am tempted to wait for the 2700K to come back in stock, mainly because it's only 20 bucks more over the 2600k, but i'll figure that out later.

Thanks again people

[ameel]

First - you will never need more than 8Gb of Ram for pretty much everything youve mentioned. 4GB will do 90% of the things youve mentioned. So dont get too hung up the Dimm sizes.

Second - you will see virtually no real world increase in performnace in using RAM at 2133Mhz. You MIGHT if you are lucky gain ONE (1) single frame in a game. For real. Theres a review floating around the web. Someone linked to it in this thread in another post (OK here is the other thread which contains lots of info and links to the RAM comparisons http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index.php?showtopic=43998 ). With Sandy Bridge, DDR3 and a 64Bit OS RAM just aint the bottleneck it once was (if it was ever a real bottleneck).

Third - are you overclocking? then again dont get the RAM at 2133Mhz. It is unstable when overclocking. You will have to constantly UNDERCLOCK that RAM to get a stable OC on the CPU. 1600MHZ RAM overclock like a champ up to those same speeds in line with your CPU while being able to keep the timings at nice levels.

Fourth - on that MOBO the RAM will not run at those speeds by default - you will have to select its profile in the XMP category in the BIOS. Even then things may not be quite stable. Check the mobo specs againt to ensure that the mobo can even handle ram at that speed without an agressive overclock. The Mobo might not be able to handle that speed ram.

Of course if you want to get it then go ahead. You may gain one frame per second in a game and you might be able to overclock the Ram slightly higher. CAS timings are probably more important though at the moment rather than raw Mhz.
My recomenvdations:

Get 8GB of DDR 3 1600Mhz Ram at either CAS 8 or CAS 9. Youll be set.
CAS 8 is more expensive thtn CAS 9 and the difference iin real world speed between CAS 8 or 9 is negligible. 1600Mhz CAS 9 Ripjaws X overclock brilliantly btw pretty much up to 2133 Mhz speeds.

Woa, thanks for that. i always wondered what the hype was about faster ram and overclocking ram ~_~ much like the time my housemate was trying to convince me into overclocking my mouse :/

[gazman2k3]

To be honest the 1600mhz stuff has been good enough for me,I am running 16gb of the corsair vengence 1600mhz stuff and it runs 100 percent stable with the cpu at 4.6ghz,I really don't see the point in better ram.