Big Brother imposes fines up to $1M for blaming carbon tax., Tell me this is fake. Options

[ReapermanRS]

I think if the prices don't change then people wont enquire anyway. :)

Everyone is raising prices on Electricity ,Water and sewerage Bills . Everything across the board is going up for this new tax.

It's not a tax it's a 'price' ;)

Edit: Smiley added for D

This post has been edited by ReapermanRS: May 26 2012, 06:00 PM

[Director]

You forgot the smiley....besides, a rose by any other name, or in this case a turd by any other name is a still a turd.

[TheManFromPOST]

In my shop, I am expecting electricity costs alone to go up by $2000 per year

[Nich...]

Let me take a stab in the dark and say it's probably aimed at assholes who'll put the price up to cover the new icnreased costs, and then put it up some more so they get a better return, and blame all of it including that last bit on Big Gov.

It's pretty much legislating againt assholes and idiots.

Which is made clear when you start to use less ridiculous sounding sources.

I'd be very very surprised if anyone was actually fined, especially for those high end amounts.

How do you prove that any price rises you introduce are because of the actual 'carbon tax'? Easy, show your supplier invoices for July onwards and pre-July. This is all paperwork that a business owner should have on hand, anyway.

Not really sure how any of this stifles criticism of the legislation or its implementation, tho'.

[Director]

Hey, it's a start..... :)

[Athiril]

In my shop, I am expecting electricity costs alone to go up by $2000 per year

That's only a few percent or lest on top of operational costs alone (without taking in account of cost of goods and other things on top) though isn't it? How thin are your margins?

[xyzzy frobozz]

Let me take a stab in the dark and say it's probably aimed at assholes who'll put the price up to cover the new icnreased costs, and then put it up some more so they get a better return, and blame all of it including that last bit on Big Gov.

It's pretty much legislating againt assholes and idiots.

Which is made clear when you start to use less ridiculous sounding sources.

I'd be very very surprised if anyone was actually fined, especially for those high end amounts.

How do you prove that any price rises you introduce are because of the actual 'carbon tax'? Easy, show your supplier invoices for July onwards and pre-July. This is all paperwork that a business owner should have on hand, anyway.

Not really sure how any of this stifles criticism of the legislation or its implementation, tho'.

This.

You've quoted a non-reputable news website (Hang the Bankers), citing a non-reputable journalist (Miranda Devine) in a non-reputable newspaper (the Daily Telegraph). The other source a story supposedly reputable newspaper (the Australian) that is owned by the same non-reputable guy (Rupert Murdoch) as the non-reputable newspaper (the Telegraph).

The story in the Australian merely points out that the ACCC will have a hard time stopping all businesses profiteering from the carbon tax. Just as the ATO has a difficult time getting all businesses to pay all of their tax and the SDRO getting businesses to pay all of their fines - pretty much business as usual. Move along, nothing to see here!

What the article in the Australian also neglects to mention is that, while some businesses may attempt to profiteer from the carbon tax, the market is a pretty effective mechanism for weeding out non-competitive businesses - i.e. those that charge too much for their products and services.

Essentially, when you read through the bullshit that is the Telegraph's story, paraphrased by Hang the Bankers, the news is that it will be illegal to profiteer from the Carbon Tax. In other words, if you pass on the Carbon Tax via an invoice, or make representations that a particular part of your pricing is to cover the carbon tax, it is incumbent upon your business to ensure that representation is not false, and that all monies are collected to cover the Carbon Tax are paid to the government and aren't put into the business' till.

The legislation has not been passed to "stifle free speech", it has been passed to make it illegal for business to make a profit on the Carbon Tax. This is nothing new. It is illegal to make a business profit on any tax, carbon or otherwise, popular or not.

That doesn't seem too unreasonable to me.

The fact that "Hang the Bankers" quotes an editorial by Miranda Devine that contains little more than weasel wording - Orwellian, hysteria, interrogate, spivs - says all you need to know about the journalistic "integrity" Ms. Devine, the Daily Telegraph, and Hang the Bankers.

It's a deliberate distortion of the truth.

In my shop, I am expecting electricity costs alone to go up by $2000 per year

That's only a few percent or lest on top of operational costs alone (without taking in account of cost of goods and other things on top) though isn't it? How thin are your margins?

Exactly.

This post has been edited by xyzzy frobozz: May 27 2012, 02:22 AM

[Rybags]

ACCC - what a fucking joke.

So, they're going to go all guns blazing against small business who jack up the price of a pie by 10 cents, yet for all the time of thier existence have done absolutely nothing about the oil companies price gouging any time a public holiday approaches and using the same tricks as the banks with interest rates for price hikes/dips.

[Director]

*snip*

The need for denial must be getting pretty desperate when you start reject the beloved MSM AND the alternative news sites. Pretty sure I linked to the ACCC website there as well, yeah yeah I know the government is just as unreliable as all news sources. ;)

[Leonid]

To be fair - this is a perfectly legitimate tactic. People will take advantage so the government is building a system to
a. deter them
b. fine them

I don't see the problem here.

The problem I see is that
a. the government flat-out lied to our faces about a carbon tax
b. the government has not explained it's impact on any prices, preferring to maintain its mantra of "it's a tax on polluters", without acknowledging that the polluters will just jack up prices, make the same profit, buy foreign carbon certs from Nigeria (Interpol's looking into half-a-dozen carbon rorts because it's currently the biggest financial scam on the planet) and make us pay for it.
c. the government is unable to estimate, or is not willing to investigate, actual costs of this tax.

[Director]

Leo,

Yeah that's a fair assessment. The only problem I have is what I posted in the OP along the lines of how will these fines be proven in a court of law? If Mr Baker says that bread is now $5 because of the CDT and a government snitch is present then is it up to Mr Baker to 'prove' his innocence as seems to be the case these days or does the government have to prove their guilt? An almost impossible task in this scenario.

An example of what I mean:

Consider a Birthday Cake; The salesman knows the cost has gone up since the Carbon Tax came in.
He doesn't know the extra costs to the farmers for the wheat, the millers electricity tax or the delivery mans tax.
He doesn't know the sugar farmers or sugar millers extra costs.
He doesn't know the egg farmers extra costs.
He doesn't know the bakers extra cost.

All he knows is since the Carbon Tax came in how much extra he pays for the cake.

Since he can't prove it he is gagged by threats of a huge fine.

On the other hand if he says he jacked up the price because he felt like it, because he knows it's well above cdt incurred costs, then that's financial suicide towards his business.

That goes also towards his suppliers. If they gouge him he can drop them for other suppliers.

This post has been edited by Director: May 27 2012, 10:00 AM

[TheManFromPOST]

Fines were issued when the GST came in, fo people who blammed a more than 10% increase on the GST
Blockbuster video if I remeber was one company

Costs that I expect to go up
Electricity
Gas
council rates
Rubbish removal (already has gone up, carbon related, but not directly due to carbon tax)

[Leonid]

Fines were issued when the GST came in, fo people who blammed a more than 10% increase on the GST
Blockbuster video if I remeber was one company

Costs that I expect to go up
Electricity
Gas
council rates
Rubbish removal (already has gone up, carbon related, but not directly due to carbon tax)

There will be more. If electricity costs go up, that filters down from the resources sector right down to the corner convenience store in terms of goods pricing.

[Athiril]

the market is a pretty effective mechanism for weeding out non-competitive businesses - i.e. those that charge too much for their products and services.

I have to lol at this. We live in Australia.

[Leonid]

the market is a pretty effective mechanism for weeding out non-competitive businesses - i.e. those that charge too much for their products and services.

I have to lol at this. We live in Australia.

He is right though - as long as the sector the business is in is not an oligopoly or worse :)

[2SHY]

the market is a pretty effective mechanism for weeding out non-competitive businesses - i.e. those that charge too much for their products and services.

I have to lol at this. We live in Australia.

He is right though - as long as the sector the business is in is not an oligopoly or worse :)

Like Coles or Woolworths?


I feel that the impact of the Carbon Tax won't be felt for a couple of months.

A carbon credit scheme seems to be more palatable than a tax.

[orcone]

A business should be free to raise its prices for whatever reason it wants.

I hate accounting, so I'll add an extra $15 to every product I sell for the added mental strain dealing with the carbon tax has done to me.

[xyzzy frobozz]

the market is a pretty effective mechanism for weeding out non-competitive businesses - i.e. those that charge too much for their products and services.

I have to lol at this. We live in Australia.

He is right though - as long as the sector the business is in is not an oligopoly or worse :)

Like Coles or Woolworths?


I feel that the impact of the Carbon Tax won't be felt for a couple of months.

A carbon credit scheme seems to be more palatable than a tax.

Since when were you bound and chained and forced to shop at Woolworths or Coles?

Woolworths and Coles are successful because they can operate with economies of scale that allow them to deliver products to the market at rates which the market obviously finds competitive enough to continue their buying from them. This is the market at work. Incidentally, by world standards the price of food is pretty low in Australia. We also get excellent variety and choice.

You're free to shop at, Aldi, IGA, or any one of a myriad of smaller grocers speciality stores.

Nobody complains to much that Coles and Woolies don't deliver low prices, they complain precisely because they deliver low prices, and squeeze out other products, and squeeze their suppliers.

It will be the same with the Carbon Tax. If the tax increases costs by, for argument's sake, 3% and everyone increases their prices by a corresponding amount, then the status quo is maintained. If one company wishes to attempt to profiteer, they face the risks of their products and services being perceived as being less competitive, and the ACCC coming down on them for profiteering.

*snip*

The need for denial must be getting pretty desperate when you start reject the beloved MSM AND the alternative news sites. Pretty sure I linked to the ACCC website there as well, yeah yeah I know the government is just as unreliable as all news sources. ;)

Actually I was referring to the sources that the OP quoted, and I was very specific about which ones I was referring to. I even named them for ease of reference!

[Athiril]

Woolworths is more than just supermarkets (or petrol stations).

[Nich...]

A business should be free to raise its prices for whatever reason it wants.

The price on my cakes just went up. Because of your mom.