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darklife41

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About darklife41

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  • Birthday 28/03/1959
  1. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    I've been calm all along. I'll take what you said as a warning too, but you needn't chase me off. I'll leave willingly (actually because Caelum told me to). :-) Last post before I delete my SN as it's quite apparent that I can't contribute on this forum in the way that I'm comfortable with, without someone having to put on their poo pants and have a whinge. I imagine most of these whinging members are decent people in real life. But put a keyboard in their hands and make them anonymous and they (not all, just some of them) forget their manners. :-) My last post had nothing to do with this thread. It's my 1st post that sparked all this nonsense, and that is the one you need to focus on with the aftermath. In my 1st post, we'll have to agree to disagree that the WOT served no purpose. I take exception to your analysis of "one reader's opinion". I could have left out the comments about the ignorant posts, but then that was my entire point. Not a single poster prior to my own understood what they were talking about, let alone had any evidence to back up their opinions. The way I see it, there's 15 years of my research on cases, positive pressure, and hardware placements condensed into a single post (although primarily the last 3 years with bottom mounted PSUs, but my research goes back much farther for air flow tests on cases). There's a ton of info and the methods that I used - and anyone else can use - to gather evidence to back up my claim that there is no measureable difference between mounting a PSU fan up or down, when the case is built properly. I also went on to explain just what "properly" is, being a positively pressured system. No one disputed my evidence because they can't, having not done the experiments themselves. I still invite them to do so, rather than take my word for it. But that post was not opinion, it was facts supported by evidence. Could it have been made clearer? I seriously doubt it. The information is all there and accurate. I created that post over several hours (not all at once) and thought very hard about how I wanted to word it. It was important to me to have all of that information there because I see forums as a resource for knowledge, and especially an enthusiasts' forum such as this. My 1st post may be too much for many of today's limited attention spans to absorb, but that's the beauty of the written word - it can be read over and over until it IS all absorbed, and according to each reader's schedule. It can be totally disregarded by those who have no interest. It's there for as long as the forum remains intact for anyone to refer to later on. Do you want a forum which provides useful information, or a forum that provides a free for all where opinions rule? Because if you deleted my 1st post from this thread, you'd have nothing but a free for all based upon ignorant opinions. I think you mods should put your heads together and have a serious think about this one. AtomicMPC should also do their own testing to prove or disprove my results, rather than label it an opinion without your own facts to support your view. Then again, maybe that's the difference between today's culture and the one I grew up in. Our attention spans were held to a much higher standard. We were taught that there's no such thing as too much information, but there's definitely such a thing as not enough information. We were required to read novels and do 10 page book reports on them to prove our reading comprehension, and improve our writing skills and overall knowledge. Today kids do a search and copy/paste their answers from wikipedia. No wonder we're currently hurting for highly technical positions in AU? We don't want to hire anyone over 45 with experience, and we don't have any young people with enough education to do the jobs. Think about it. And when you're 50+ years old, think about it again as you compare what this generation accomplishes compared to the last several generations did. But please don't ban Squallstrife as he's the most entertaining, presumptuous, and argumentative member on this forum (although lacking in scruples). He's been warned countless times... er, about what? Warnings mean nothing without action to back them up. And that, sir, is my advice to you. :-) Seriously though, you're going to use Apple as a supposedly convincing argument to a PC builder? You must be joking! Just for that, you have to go back and read every post I've ever written again, and do 12 Hail Marys. If I want a flashy music player that sounds like crap, there's plenty of good alternatives. But then I'm a bit of an audiophile, so I require quality over flash (er, wait, apple doesn't do Flash.. doh! (intentional play on words)). Apple's computer sales have been in the tank since inception. No Apple products are allowed in our home. :-) As my last contribution to this forum, here's as simple and factual an argument as I can make to Mbps measurement fans: The bit measuring system was designed to work on network equipment which needed to break information into smaller pieces, such as routers and servers. It was never designed to be a standard for measuring download/upload speeds. It fails miserably to give us an accurate idea of our actual speeds. When moving here, my reaction to Mbps was exactly like some of yours to GB modems in the USA (measured by the hour, not by the second as some here have mistakenly assumed). I thought "wtf does Mbps have to do with download speeds, and why would anyone choose to reinvent the wheel with a perfectly good measuring system in place for decades?" Of course Mbps is a metric measurement, which explains why the USA will likely never adopt it for measuring bandwidth. 1 megabit = 1 million bits of data (for speed measurements, it's different for storage measurements). Great! Now I'm at bits per second and metric is easy because it's done by round numbers, right?. Wait, 8 million bits per second = 1 million kilobytes per second. So much for the round numbers. Why convert it to kb/s? Let's choose an American app that has never adopted the Mbps system, like M$'s Internet Explorer (for the record, Opera is not American and uses the same system, not sure about FF as I can't stand it). When you download with IE, your speed is measured by kb/s, or mb/s if you have a very fast connection, etc.. Does anyone have a hard time understanding kb/s? Of course not. Everyone understands kilobytes per second as it's what we're used to seeing. Our hard drives (no matter which country the manufactuer comes from) use the same system for storage measurement with bytes, kilobytes, megabytes, gigabytes, and so on (although they cheat and use multiples of 1000 rather than multiples of 1024 to make it sound better - similar to Apple marketing practices ;-) ). kb/s is a realistic benchmark of actual download speed in that I'm truly downloading so many kilobytes every second - which will equate to megabytes, and eventually gigabytes and terabytes. Those same numbers are used for my storage drives and every file size in the world. So I can do the math in my head to figure out how long a download will take when seeing file size. I know which file sizes will fit on my hard drives and which won't. This system makes sense and is easy for me to understand, because it all ties together. In the old days, a 7 GB modem told me that it was capable of transferring 7 GB of data over an hour. That's simple for me to understand and again, it all ties together. Obviously modems are much faster now, but that was an example from a decade ago. I can't do the same with Mbps, as it's not an accurate way of telling me how much actual data I'm downloading per second, per minute, or per hour. Can anyone honestly say that they can translate Mbps into actual download time with various file sizes in their head? To do the math I need a calculator (maybe I'm special that way). I have to convert Mbps to bytes and then back to kbs, in order to understand how much data is actually being transferred and at what speed. So laugh all you want. Using Mbps for a measurement of data transfer speeds is nothing more than a complicated system of doing what browsers, modems, and ISPs have done for years simply - in my humble opinion. :-) Here's some help for those who don't understand, or would like to learn more about Mbps: http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-mbps.htm
  2. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    SquallStrife, Quit focusing on finding fault rather than focusing on the point being made. It'll serve you much better in the long run to move ahead in life. Better yet, take the time to educate yourself on what you don't know before calling people names or suggesting that you know more (such as USA internet and USA terminology). Your lack of international reading comprehension is just making you look foolish to anyone who's ever lived outside of Australia, and to a few who have never left the Australia. Also, if you consider that I lived for 40+ years in the continental USA as an American before moving here and becoming Australian 10 years ago, you might also understand that my terminologies are not always wrong, but just plain different to what you use. Terminologies? Hell, with learning the various spellings and slang that Ozzies use (and Ozzies use a LOT of slang) in addition to my own native English language, I struggle to remember how to spell correctly. I have to say, some of the spelling on this forum makes me feel pretty good about my own shortcomings though. At least I know when to use "then or than" and "your and you're". ;-) But you've picked some perfect examples of ignorance vs improper terminologies - and since I love to write... Let's start with some basics: A 7GB DSL modem in the USA was capable of speeds of up to 7GB, and available well before the technology could provide those speeds to consumers. That was a long time ago. 3GB was in reference to the actual DSL line speed (that's how it is - and always has been measured and in the USA - regardless of what some Ozzie who spent 3 months working there says, and if he was any good he'd still be working there). Here, you're used to measuring line speed in Mbps. That may soon become the worldwide standard for measuring line speed, but it IS NOT yet, and wasn't used at all in the USA when I moved here in 2002. The USA has never had download/upload caps of any kind - until recently when it was tried, and boycotted, and failed. I'm not aware of a single ISP still capping there, although there may well be a couple that I don't know about. They're still kicking the idea around, but after having no caps since the internet was created, USA citizens aren't likely to allow it to happen without a fight. It's measured differently here, but 3.0GB line speed (equivalent to your understanding of 3000Mbps or ADSL2) was twice as fast as 1.5GB (what you'd probably know as 1500Mbps or regular ADSL). It's all still called DSL there, no matter what speed (unless it's something else, like cable or figer optic, or wi-fi). DSL was the term used there because only one symmetrical form of xDSL was viable, so the 1st letter was dropped. AU almost always uses more letters to say the same thing as the USA does. Nothing new there. The USA had DSL 1.5GB speeds in the sticks (that's bush to you) before Australia had any type of public broadband. Within 2 years after it was established, DSL was available in 80% of the country. And while AU may have had ADSL shortly after the USA, it's still not as widely available here as it was there when AU first started using ADSL. Thank your government and Helstra for that. Big deal (that's USA sarcasm meaning it's not a big deal). That entire thread went off topic, as has this one, because you get stuck on the terminology, rather than focus on the points being made. Now to your current misunderstandings (also off topic of the thread, sorry OP): Right, IP string as in various IP families, or IP addresses, which include the 1st 3 sets of numbers being the same, where the 4th set will vary for each ethernet connection for a network. You may not find that on an AU google of terminology, but it's included with many USA applications and terminologies, such as MS server OS's dating back to W2K Server. (I haven't used anything more recent than 2003, so not sure if it's still a setting there or not.) I was taught about IP strings in the USMC when dealing with communications in the mid-'70s and probably before you were born. The USA and USA software companies, including MS, don't care about how you twist their terminologies around, and neither do I. It's still correct, even if you don't use it/know it. Al Gore may have problems with it, but that's another story. :-) Subnet? As I was taught, subnet just refers to generic networking of computers. By that definition, we have a single subnet (network) with multiple IP strings (variable addresses in a family such as 192.168.1.xxx to 192.168.16.xxx, and 169.254.xxx.xxx for example). The only other time I've heard that term used was with a subnet mask, which is assigned to an IP string/family (set of addresses), and each IP family has its own subnet mask by default. I bow to your superior knowledge of this subject as I find it too boring to research further. I'm no IT Tech (happily - no money in IT and highly stressful work) and I find the entire field quite boring. I've been a system builder for the past 15 years - owning a company in the USA and a company in SA. I'm not bragging, but simply putting the amount of computers that I've built over the years into some perspective. I know a little about how to build a system properly and have done actual testing instead of taking other people's word for things such as air flow. Before I started a computer business, I was a Plant manager in injection moulding training Moulding Technicians and Shift Supervisors. I have a fairly extensive background with cooling with water and air, which naturally transferred into computer technology. I actually take offense when someone labels me an IT Tech. :-) I'm much more of a jack of all trades (also a USA expression) with computers than an expert on any given IT subject. I wouldn't have it any other way as I have many areas of interest outside of computers that I don't care to give up. I don't live and breath computers as they're just one of the many things that I've enjoyed and made decent money from. Not anymore, there's a kid on every block who thinks they know more - and I'm sick of getting their systems in for repairs (no money in repairs either if you're honest about it). We can count the number of system failures on our own builds on both hands over 10 years here, and roughly double that in USA, mostly back in the old days and AMD systems before we dropped AMD completely. Back to the broadband thread points that you've never understood: The USA has been upgrading their telephone line infrustructure with fibre (correctly spelled (not spelt) "fiber optics")/copper lines for over 4 decades now. The lines have both as well as analog for phones. Canada has a similar infrastructure, as do many other countries no bigger than Australia in population and similar in size. These countries have phone lines (landlines to you) that are decades ahead of AU now for internet speeds, which is why AU now has to build a completely separate infrastructure. Ma Bell was broken into tiny ISPs which had to become more efficient to stay in business, and they did. It's also why they're capable of providing fibre (fiber optic) speeds now to any given area at cheap rates. Again, over 80% of the USA is outfitted with updated phone lines, and it's mainly ISPs who are dragging their heels on upgrading their internal infrastructure. My kids' home town now has fiber optic speeds in a town of 1500 people, which is all that particular ISP covers. They're paying $29.99/month for fiber optics speeds, and have no caps. The closest thing resembling a city is 70 miles away and has a population of 50,000. In AU it's a costly and necessary upgrade now to fiber optics, of which the costs get passed onto the customers/consumers. I love AU, but some things here are back asswards (that's USA slang too and not an incorrect terminology). Helstra's refused to keep up with the times while fixing their failing infrastructure, and now we get to pay for their mistakes. What a joke, Helstra. They claim they can't support an infrastructure upgrade on their own because there's not enough population. However, they've had more customers than any given Ma Bell sibling and specific small town ISPs who did just that while cutting costs to customers at the same time. Similar population sized countries to AU have been doing it for decades while reducing their costs to customers at the same time too. There is no good reason that Helstra couldn't have been doing the same thing for the last 4 decades. Telstra management has simply been foolish and greedy, while the government was in bed with them and allowed it to happen. That's the point you missed because you couldn't get past the difference in termonologies. Bottom line = Terminologies vary from place to place, but are not wrong. If anything, a country with 22 million people using their own terminologies is wrong compared to a country with 370 million people who actually invented the technology and shared it with the smaller country? I have no bias for either country. I'm just as skeptical about the USA as I am Australia and hope I never have to make a choice between them. I'm just stating facts. Your posts that nitpick mine just make it obvious that you're not familiar with anything outside your small world. That, my friend, is the true definition of ignorance (for the record, "my friend" is USA slang for "mate" and doesn't mean I want to have beers with you nor am I asking you to have my baby). There's absolutely nothing wrong with being ignorant about other countries' terminology until you try to come across as knowing something that you don't because of it, which just makes you look silly because it's obvious that you don't understand it. I'm calling the ignorant just what they are, ignorant. Current cases are designed to have the PSU fan face down, or both ways, for a reason. And I've yet to see one that only allows the PSU fan to be face up. I've never called anyone stupid for being ignorant, and some are much more ignorant than others. There's a big difference between being called ignorant, and being called stupid (although stupid people wouldn't know that). I've been called stupid time and again with various colourful Ozzie "terminologies" or is that slang?! And often by you, because you had no idea that there's a larger world than your own with a different way of saying things. :-) We're all ingorant to many, many things. We pick what interests us and may become experts in a particular field, but even most experts are smart enough to know that they'll never know it all, and thus will remain ignorant. It's not an insult. I believe it was Socrates (?) who said something to the affect of; the more I learn, the more I realise how little I know. I've learned something from pretty much every thread that I've read on this forum, but I only subscribe to the tech portion. Most of what I've learned from you SquallStrife, is that every country has their fair share of those who thrive on controversy - and where there is none they create it. We tend to call them "shit stirrers" and I'm told that expression isn't new to Oz either. Well I'm tired of supplying a target for you. Play with Tantryl. The 2 of you can have "you're stupider than I am - no you're more stupid than I am for saying stupider" wars. :-) You could argue that I'm in Australia now and should always be using Australian terminology. I'll be the first to admit that when I joined this forum roughly 8 yrs ago (the old format), I knew very little about Australian (what you'd call) terminology (and what any American would call) slang. And I'll also argue that this is an international enthusiasts' forum based in Australia, so your local terminology is irrelevant, although entertaining. I've learned to accept and adapt to the different slang and terminology here, but I'm only 10 years old in AU years and am learning more every day. You might attempt to do the same, learn, for your own sake. It's a bigger world than you may think. On topic, and for the last time: People can put their PSU any way they're comfortable with. I don't really care if you hang it from your pillow. I just answered the OP's original question - (why?) with details that some can't appreciate. Those who choose to ignore the long posts aren't missing much anyway, other than there is a reason for it - and it can and has been proven to work exactly the same for cooling while keeping the PSU itself cleaner when the case is setup correctly with positive air pressure. That's also why I tend to bold key points, so that they don't have to read the entire post if they'd rather not. :-)
  3. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    No, they said it would work between computers both joined and not-joined to a domain. You neglected to mention your two computers were on separate non-routed subnets. You then went on to vehemently state that it was because of domain membership that it did not work, which is a complete lie. Why should they? Based on all the information you gave, the answers were correct. Why would anyone assume otherwise? You with-held (deliberately or not) pieces of information vital to diagnosing a network issue, then looked down your nose on everybody else because they didn't assume you were trying to link two computers on two networks with no route to each other? Edit: Then in this thread, you went on a several-paragraph tirade condescending people with slurs like "ignorant" and "amateur", when it would have been quicker, earier, and more forum-ly to say "In my experience, if you have a positive pressure setup, it's safe to have the fan facing down". You're not one to talk about ego or ignorance. If I wasn't familiar with your constant misuse of terminology and failure to grasp even the most basic concepts, I'd say you were trolling. Agreed, I could have worded the first post better. The points still remain valid. I also mentioned (100 year old) scientific smoke tests that we've performed to prove there is no difference in air flow either way. No one can argue the results of those tests. But I encourage everyone to try testing themselves. I found it enlightening and enjoyed it. You may too since you have such a broad knowledge base and understanding of computers in general. The other thread speaks for itself. Who in their right mind runs a domain and non-domained network on the same IP string? What exactly would be the point? I think that all the info you needed was right in front of you all along. You just chose what to absorb and what to ignore. The written word is much harder to grasp context than verbal communication. The fact that you feel belittled by me in any way proves that. I don't look down on you, and I respect you. I just don't always agree with you. Get over it. :-) And for the record, I've RPL'ed through several diplomas here in the last 4 months from my education and work in the USA 20-35 years ago; including TAE, OHS (advanced diploma), and Business (some of the business experience was gathered here in the last 10 years too). So please, spare me the constant misuse of terminology and failure to grasp the most basic concepts. When I turn in written work I'm often praised for going above and beyond what is required. That's what we were taught to do in school. It's only on this particular forum that I'm constantly picked apart for trying to contribute, and I'm on countless technology forums. Ironically, this is the only Australian forum other than OHS. I know why that is. Because on that forum the average age is much more than here. Anything over a sentence or 2 is too much for the average regular to be bothered reading through on this forum. But as consolation to you, we've retired our computer businesses and I won't be posting here much anymore. Rest in peace! :-)
  4. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    You stated : These cases are designed to have the PSU mounted downward for a reason. The manual for the case in question states : Note: Power supplies will need to be mounted so that the PSU fan is facing the top of the case. Nine Hundred Two V3 provides mounting holes for power supplies with standard mounting layouts to be installed upside up or upside down. You talk about manufacturers doing research and that people should take advantage of their design decisions, well in this case (lol!), it's pretty clear. "Nine Hundred Two V3 provides mounting holes for power supplies with standard mounting layouts to be installed upside up or upside down." Agreed, it's pretty clear. :-)
  5. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    Just because none have overheated doesn't make it right.If I managed to drive to the shops with a blindfold on without killing anyone does it mean I should keep doing it, and tell others to do the same? Also you may make the PSU louder too as the fans will have to work harder to overcome the extra resistance the air will face getting into it. Read up on how cases should be built with positive pressure. When setup/built properly, there is no starvation of air with the PSU fan down, period. In fact, the fan gets more air than it can force through the PSU. That's why we perform smoke tests, and so did the manufacturers when designing them. The Antec three hundred (and all variants), nine hundred (and all variants), and twelve hundred are all designed for the PSU to be placed with the fan down for good reason, but the build must supply positive pressure to work correctly. You have an opinion that this is incorrect, but no evidence to support it. I'll add my own opinion, that the manual specifies that the PSU can be placed either way (knowing if it's done properly there are no problems), but suggests that it's placed fan up (knowing that idiots will not build the case correctly with more fans blowing in than out). :-) When I read that I take it to mean they are saying the holes will allow you to install with the fan up or down, but they say install with the fan facing up, and even supply a picture showing thus so there can be no mistake. If the makers intended it to be a positive pressure setup they would have supplies instructions on how to do that to get the best from their product. But they did not ! There are no holes on the bottom of that case. You take it your way, I'll take it mine. We both interpret things according to what we've learned through our lives, thus interpretations will always vary. :-)
  6. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    Just because none have overheated doesn't make it right.If I managed to drive to the shops with a blindfold on without killing anyone does it mean I should keep doing it, and tell others to do the same? Also you may make the PSU louder too as the fans will have to work harder to overcome the extra resistance the air will face getting into it. Read up on how cases should be built with positive pressure. When setup/built properly, there is no starvation of air with the PSU fan down, period. In fact, the fan gets more air than it can force through the PSU. That's why we perform smoke tests, and so did the manufacturers when designing them. The Antec three hundred (and all variants), nine hundred (and all variants), and twelve hundred are all designed for the PSU to be placed with the fan down for good reason, but the build must supply positive pressure to work correctly. You have an opinion that this is incorrect, but no evidence to support it. I'll add my own opinion, that the manual specifies that the PSU can be placed either way (knowing if it's done properly there are no problems), but suggests that it's placed fan up (knowing that idiots will not build the case correctly with more fans blowing in than out). :-) Maybe there is not a rash of failures because people building their computers, and notice no vents in the floor of the case, turn the fan of the PSU (and rightly so) towards the top of the case. Making a fan suck air through a fly shit space makes no sense at all, and I for one would never face a fan to a solid surface, call me old fashioned. I'm not going to call you anything. And I'm not arguing that what you're doing is "wrong", it's just not necessary if you have positive pressure as those fans can't push more air than (to use your words) "a fly shit in space" anyway. :-) The OP asked "why?" (fans are placed in his Antec case face down), so I provided a comprehensive answer and pointed out that people who didn't understand how positive pressure and new case designs work were contributing bad info to the thread based upon opinions instead of facts. Ignorance is not an insult. Ignorance is: the condition of being uneducated, unaware, or uninformed. If uninformed people choose to see that as an insult, that's their problem. :-)
  7. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    My point was summed up in 2 sentences. I'm too lazy to quote it, but basically: Do you think expensive PSU manufacturers would design their PSUs to overheat and fail, knowing that they'd be place fan down in many cases without holes in the bottom? Of course they wouldn't. Most everything else that's been posted on here is moot points, or blatantly offensive rather than informative. But hey, those are quick reads. :-)
  8. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    It's not just here. Check out this threadload of derp: http://forums.atomicmpc.com.au/index.php?s...=48067&st=0 How could we mere mortals ever hope to understand his needlessly complicated misuse of the IPv4 address space? Right, read that entire thread. After saying I was researching to see if they'd work on our system, I was plastered with posts saying that it would work with basically any situation. Did anyone ask for further details before giving wrong information? No. They assumed that they know it all, as usual per Atomicmpc forum regulars. I don't really mind having spent the time researching as I enjoy learning. Now they assume I'm giving IPs accurately, which I was just listing examples. The egos of some never cease to amaze me. Flame others in order to feel better about yourselves, and remain ignorant in the process. Not exactly the forum for manners and help that it used to be. :-)
  9. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    Like I said, many ignorant posts from ametuer builders. And still, no one has yet to mention a PSU overheating from being placed fan down in a case without holes on the bottom. All insults aside, I believe I've proven my point. And Caelum is obviously an egomaniac who feels that the few times people have agreed with him are necessary to have in his signature. :-)
  10. darklife41

    Transformers branded Death Adders.

    I just spent $100 on a logitech MX M950 with darkfield, and the scroll button is almost unusable (love the rest of it so a real shame). Never been a fan of anything "Razer" myself, but if logitech quality keeps going down hill I may have to consider them. :-( Don't do it!
  11. darklife41

    Upside down power!

    Most of this is ametuer and incorrect advice. The OP has no understanding of how his Antec Nine Hundred works and is being steered wrong. So has anyone here ever seen a quality PSU or PSU fan give out because it overheated or was overworked from air starvation from being on the bottom, face down, with no case holes under it? Of course you haven't. We've yet to see one of our builds mounted on the bottom fail for any reason, but we've used Corsair PSUs exclusively for the last 3 years or so too. I've rarely seen a quality PSU fail on negative pressure systems (which we didn't build). That's the only way a quality bottom mounted PSU should fail, and won't matter if it's facing up or down. I'll disagree with all of these posts claiming that good cases put holes on the bottom. It's just another dust cover to clean, not nearly as effective at keeping dust out of the PSU as a case with no bottom PSU holes no matter how good the filters are, and causes more air starvation than a correctly built positive pressure system. Think about it. Cases with holes on the bottom often have the PSU sitting directly on the floor and force them to suck air through a filter rather than via positive air pressure in the case. Talk about air starvation? I pretty much guarantee that if you test the air flow through the PSU on a dirty filter on the bottom, vs pointed down with no holes on an Antec witch includes a gap for air feed on a positive pressure system with dirty filters or turning it upside down on a positive pressure system with dirty filters... you'll find there is better circulation through the PSU on a positive pressure system on any given case model than one forced to suck directly through a filter. Caulem is correct for the reason of the bottom being cooler air than at the top or middle of the case (and it's measurable with proper air flow). Caulem is dead wrong about a case with holes and filters on the bottom being a better design. They're a gimmick. I haven't used a Fractal case either, but I've used others with similar designs (holes and filters on the bottom) and even beefed up the filters with 1/2" foam rubber to cut down on the dust because it's a stupid design for systems in a dirty environment or that must sit on a carpet. The PSU still get's dustier with this design than one without holes on the bottom. Not really a big problem as I've rarely seen a quality PSU fail on the bottom, but not a better design in any way. Again, those bottom holes and additional filters to clean are nothing but a gimmick and do nothing to prolong the life of a PSU. They cause more air starvation than a correctly setup system with positive air pressure. Both my wife and I are currently using Antec twelve hundred(s) with no hole on the bottom. We've built about 300 systems with Antec Three Hundred cases for customers, and roughly the same amount with Antec Nine Hundreds, all with Corsair PSUs. Some of these are sitting in extremely dusty factory environments and the PSU is still fairly clean, though the filters tend to build up 1/2" of dust and require the CPU fan to be cleaned every few weeks. I recommend adding a 1/4" foam rubber filter in front of the side fan, which is quite effective at stopping dust and still allows good air flow from the 140mm fan (we use CoolerMaster 140/120mm Silent Fans with good luck). All of these Antec cases supply at least 1 foot under the PSU at the front and the mount at the back is on a lip so that the PSU cannot be on the floor of the case. This is a win/win in a positive pressure case as it's fed cooler air from the bottom of the case via the side door fan and back vents behind the PSU which go to the area in back between the wiring space and door, and keeping dust to a minimum because big dust bunnies can't fit under the PSU. The side door fan streams directly to the GPU (which is caught up in the front stream and exhausted out the back) and to the PSU, while the front fans streams widely over the motherboard and out the top and back of the case. This is the best case design for a PSU mount, period. Our PSUs are almost perfectly clean after the case sits on a plush carpeted floor for months at a time between cleanings. That's how to build a case properly with the PSU on the bottom, intake facing down, as all dust buildup goes up to the CPU or out the back/top of the system. The CPU cooler is a different story, and is the reason that these systems can't be cleaned less often or not at all (although I'm pretty anal about keeping my system clean and checking it over every 3 months or so). If you think there's no air flow in your Nine Hundred from the PSU facing the bottom, then how would you explain the air coming out the back of the PSU? It can't blow out what it can't suck in. Do a smoke test with your favourite smoking material to check the air flow both ways. Bombard it with smoke - from your bong if that's your thing. Did you notice any difference when turning it upside down in air flow coming out the back? I already know the answer - there is no difference. The PSU will get slightly dirtier being put upside down, and that's the only difference (other than also being fugly and looking like it was built by an ametuer). If you run a lit cigarette all the way around the PSU bottom you'll see it sucking the smoke from every angle, and on these Antecs there's much more than the required space for air flow at the bottom. If you supply enough smoke, you'll see some float up as there's more air in the system than the PSU needs, and this will be the same whether it's facing upward or downward. The amount of air sucked through a PSU by even the biggest fan isn't more than needed from a couple thousands of an inch clearance. Doesn't appy to OP's current situation but if your case has no feet under the PSU mount, any decent PSU still has a grill and grill screws on the bottom which the PSU will sit on, and again have plenty of air flow. Some PSU manufacturers design the grills intentionally curved enough to stand out further than the screw heads, to sit on the grill on cheap cases and be fed or suck air from around their sides in all directions. Some design the screw heads to the grill to be sitting on the bottom of a cheap case. Do you think manufacturers would design their expensive PSUs to fail, knowing they could be mounted in a cheap case facing down? They understand what is required for air flow and build accordingly. You should also have positive pressure inside the case (meaning more fans going in than out - and don't forget to consider the PSU fan going out) to have correct air flow. Make sure your builder wasn't a knob and put enough intake fans in, or add some more on your own. Facing up or down, in a positive pressure case the PSU fan will be fed more air than it can handle, not be starving for air. This science is about a century old. We're not talking water here. Air travels quite easily between the smallest of cracks. In fact, with a smoke test on a correctly built positive pressure system you'll be amazed at how many leaks every computer case has to allow air to flow out. If the air is circulating rather than streaming, you have a crappy case design. These Antecs have a very good air flow system which streams well from front to rear and top (with enough fans) and from the side to the bottom and middle exhausts. Air for the PSU on these Antecs gets streamed straight from the side vent fans (if you place one there) which is cooler since it doesn't travel the length of the case and is situated at about 1/3 or less from the bottom of the case. Only if there are no side vents does the air get fed into a bottom mounted PSU from the case front. It will still be cooler air than what is streaming to the middle or top of the case unless you have a dinosaur case that doesn't have good air flow anyway. Again, a smoke test will show you exactly how the air is circulating incorrectly or streaming correctly in your case. The only exception would be if you're using a cheap generic case with no lip or feet and a generic PSU with the intake at the front of the PSU, and that's easily remedied too. There's a bit of play with the PSU screw holes to allow the PSU to be a few millimeters off the floor. If building yourself or adjusting a shitty build from some manufacturer, simply loosen the PSU screws and slide it up as far as you can - place match book covers (0.016" thick) under both sides of the PSU, and retighten the back screws (don't forget to pull the matchbooks out when you're done). That supplies more than enough space for air flow around the PSU (also worked perfectly for gapping the points on my '69 Chrysler 389 Police Interceptor, but that's another story). You can even use the lip of a cardboard box (thicker, but accomplishes the same thing to get the PSU off the case bottom). You don't want a flat side of the PSU on the flat floor of a case, but it only takes a couple thousands of an inch to create enough air flow for a generic PSU (which will likely die for other reasons anyway). At any rate, there is no starvation of air unless you put a gasket or silicon around the bottom of the PSU on an Antec Nine Hundred. These Antec cases have some disadvantages (IE: the front filters are a bitch to clean as the side(s) have to be taken off to remove the screws holding each bay, and hot hard drives are mounted right in front of the front fans causing hot air to be streamed across the motherboard), but the PSU setup is state of the art and among the best on the market. These cases are designed to have the PSU mounted downward for a reason. The science has already been done for you. If you don't trust the research put into these PSU and case designs, by all means buy the gimmicks to satisfy your ignorance. Antec has been a case leader for decades for good reason. If you actually test the air flow on your systems, you'll see what is good and what is just gimmicks. Then you won't find yourself posting incorrect information to others as well. :-) BS. If you look at the Antec 900 2 V3 it has feet and a channel underneath for air to be fed via positive pressure in the case. If you have enough intake fans, it's not sucking anything - rather it's being fed air via positive pressure. I don't think you should be building systems if you don't understand this setup and can't even see that it wasn't sitting flush on the bottom of the case at the fan. That case is actually a very good design for the PSU to be mounted downward. :-)
  12. darklife41

    XP Support in INY Bridge ?

    As far as I'm aware, there's no real disadvantages to installing XP in IDE mode other than the hot swappable function for ESATA. If you don't use ESATA, or if you do and don't mind rebooting to use the drives, then it's not a factor. AHCI enables ESATA to be hot swappable (basically seen as a removable drive connecting and disconnecting while running).
  13. darklife41

    XP Support in INY Bridge ?

    No other software you can use to add music to the Zen? I can add the lossless music with other software, but I can't label it without the Creative software which doesn't work on anything but XP with Media Player 9. A little bit of misinformation there unless the last time you tried using 3d acceleration with in a vm was more then 3-4 years ago which was when 3d acceleration gave you similar performance to geforce 3-4 cards. With workstation 8 for shits and giggles I installed crysis on a XP vm and it worked fine perfectly. 3D acceration was one issue that was troublesome and still is to an extent. Trialing a single game is hardly a test. While you're at it, load in some old DOS games that work perfectly on an XP install and see how they perform on your Workstation 8. If my information is wrong I'd sure like to know because I have plenty of games that have never worked on Win 7 or on a VM. :-)
  14. darklife41

    XP Support in INY Bridge ?

    VMs are worthless for playing games as they don't load all drivers correctly. I don't know how a hardware configuration could not support an operating system, unless they're saying XP drivers just won't be available for the newer boards - which is a strong possibility. Edit: also, it's not just games that create the need for XP. I have Creative Nomad Jukebox Zen Xtra that I use for music in my car. The software won't work on Win 7/Vista, so any songs loaded to it won't properly display the artist, album, etc. So there's many (some quite expensive) reasons NOT to bite the bullet and just drop XP yet. :-)
  15. darklife41

    KVM Switch

    I appreciate the responses and I don't mean to piss on anyone's parade. We were hoping these software solutions would match what our old hardware PS2 KVM switch did for years without a problem. For whatever reason, the newer USB KVM switches often don't recognise the mouse or keyboard, but see the monitor just fine. So when this post came up, I started reseaching to see if the software KVM switch is realistic for our needs, but it seems that it's not. The difference is that most of you are just using the same machines, while we're constantly using different machines as well as our own. Let's start with the basics: I didn't try Kavoom because Kavoom offers 2 options, a multi-monitor system (which is actually a KM switch and requires a monitor on each system), and a single monitor system. Kavoom's single monitor system is a true KVM switch, but is not free ($29.95). Every time you add a new system to it (such as doing computer repairs, which is what we use the KVM switch for), we'd need to purchase a new license. Each additional system licence costs $12.95 for a license. So not suited to our needs as this would quickly become more expensive than a hardware solution and we don't care to pass that cost on to our customers. (I realise there are ways around that, but because we run a business with a couple of ABNs attached to it, we prefer to remain legal.) The multi-monitor or KM switch isn't the way we want to go as we don't want to purchase several monitors for that to work either. InputDirector is not a KVM switch. It's a KM switch, meaning that each system must have it's own monitor (that's why virtual drives work as they are attached to your system with a monitor). Not suitable for us to connect different computers all the time as we may have 4 systems without monitors/keyboards/mouses (infected systems on my work bench at one time). Synergy is a KM switch, not a KVM switch. Worthless unless we want to put a monitor on every system (or are running VMs), and we don't (and aren't). I even took this all a step further and looked into creating my own software KVM switch, but it won't work with the way our system is setup currently. More advanced: Our network is connected to a Draytek router/modem which allows more than a single IP string, via several switches. DHCP is enabled and works fine, although we use static IPs for our domain anyway. Obviously the domain is all 192.168.xxx.xxx with the modem being 192.168.xxx.1. To answer SquallStrife's question; no, our router/modem is not configured for 2 way communication for a reason. The non-domain computers are connected to the modem via a separate router (yes, intentionally - and this modem/router uses 169.168.xxx.xxx which was assigned to be static and different from the domain) with DHCP enabled to keep them from infecting our domain systems with viruses. The non-domain computers still can connect to the internet as the router looks to the modem, and the modem redirects for internet access to the gateway 192.168.xxx.1. In other words, all computers can see the internet, but domain and non-domain computers cannot see (or ping) each other. That's the whole reason we use a KVM switch, as I can connect to my domain computer from an infected non-domain computer and install the needed AntiVirus/AntiMalware tools, update them from the internet or an updated definitions on my own system, and run them on the infected computer. It's just faster and easier than trying to use a flash drive or removable drive, and some infected systems have USBs disabled anyway. So far (knock on wood) no virus is able to travel through a hardware KVM connection to infect the other system via the mouse, keyboard, monitor or USB (at least I've yet to see one that can). But if all systems were on the same IP string, several of these bad boys could infect our entire network via the server (I've seen that happen and that's why we've changed it). On a hardware KVM, we can connect directly from any computer to any computer, regardless of the IP difference (IE: 192.168.xxx.xxx and 169.168.xxx.xxx). On these software KM/KVM switches, the IP difference creates a problem. Protection of our domain computers is a priority, so changing the system is not an option at this time. These software options may or may not be ideal for the OP, depending upon multiple monitors, only using a few systems vs different systems all the time, etc.. Obviously they work fine for some of you, and I do appreciate your advice. This thread was very informative. However for our (unique?) situation - the search continues for a decent 4 port USB KVM. For the record, I'm not convinced that viruses can't or soon won't be able to travel via USB, making that a worthless option as well. And of course, on systems which already have USB disabled by viruses, a hardware USB KVM switch will be worthless as well. IMO, while eliminating PS2 provided some advantages, it also created some problems. :-)
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