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andrej351

120Hz LCD Display Legit?

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Hey everyone,

 

Basically I've wanted a display upgrade for too long now and what seemed like a simple decision suddenly became a bit more complex...

 

I had my heart set on this bad boy for quite some time (Samsung 2333SW):

http://www.samsung.com/au/consumer/detail/...d=LS23CMZKFV/XY

 

But then i found this thing (Samsung 2494HS):

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_p...roducts_id=8856

 

Now from scanning across many, many forums I've found that the second option has a "supposed" 120Hz refresh rate. But also found out that this is for some 3D tech from nVidia so it can draw 3D images at 60Hz (one image for each eye like the coloured glasses at IMAX) and create proper fly-out-at-your-face graphics.

 

CONUNDRUM:

 

Does anybody know if the second display (Samsung 2494HS) can actually refresh at 120Hz under normal use and PARTICULARLY during regular gaming?

 

This is the primary reason I'm worrying about this. I.e. Will it let games i currently run at above 75fps draw faster with V-Sync enabled?

 

Is there any point even worrying about this with an $80 price difference??

 

Is the fact that 120Hz is divisible by the common film capture frame rates (24 and 30 i think) going to make a difference to video playback?

 

Only difference in the two is .6 of an inch and the 2494HS is apparently a bit brighter. Finally got the cash to do this and if i want it this week im ordering tomorrow.

 

Thanks in advance,

Andrej.

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Ok, so it seems a few people think it does have a 120Hz refresh rate at its native resolution. But a couple of people have said that its just 60Hz "upscaled"....what the hell is that???

 

If anyones got any idea please help!!

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If it's 60Hz upscaled then that IMO is stupid. Basically it is 60Hz input but when it gets the next actual frame it doesn't display it, instead it displays something in between it and the last one, then it displays the actual frame, etc. This would create an extra latency of 8.3333etc. ms till the real complete frame is displayed. It might make video sppear smoother, but would be worse for things that require faster reaction times, like a lot of games IMO. I think this is all accurate.

 

Is the fact that 120Hz is divisible by the common film capture frame rates (24 and 30 i think) going to make a difference to video playback?

Good point. This is why it would be nice to have a display that does 120Hz. Or 240Hz, etc.

 

Only difference in the two is .6 of an inch and the 2494HS is apparently a bit brighter.

I think that is incorrect; the 2494HS has HDMI input and speakers. Edited by bu14-1

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I edited the above post.

 

Another thing is the DVI dual link and HDMI specifications should be sufficient for 1920x1080 @ 120Hz.

Edited by bu14-1

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Thanks for your reply man.

 

The phrases i've been hearing are that its 60Hz "upscaled" or "sampled twice".

 

Anyone else???

 

Mainly in regard to: If i give it an input of a game running at 120FPS with V-sync enabled, will it draw 120 unique images as per the input???????????

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Just got off the phone to Samsung....

 

Apparently, according to a "Product Manager", the 2494HS will not do 120Hz.....thats all he said.

 

Also, apparently, theres a model coming out in the next 4 to 5 weeks that will do 120Hz....thats all he said about that.

 

So given that the only place I've seen this 120Hz claim is on forums, im going to go right ahead and assume its 60Hz like most other displays on the market at the moment.

 

NOW: Taking into account all that, would you buy the 2333SW ($290) or the 2494HS ($365)??

 

Linksss:

 

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_p...roducts_id=8951

 

http://itestate.com.au/pages/product/pdt_p...amp;pcode=06617

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hmmmmmmmm thats good, im leaning more towards buying it now. i can afford either or and the 2494 seems to have the edge in most areas, allbeit not by a huge margin.

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It looks like it can do 85Hz:

But at what resolution?

 

1920x1080... that's the resolution of the display. AFAIK LCD monitors aren't like CRT ones in that you can lower the resolution and up the refresh rate. With LCD monitors you are pretty much using all the pixels no matter what resolution the video card is sending to it unless it is doing 1:1 mapping maybe. It's not like CRT monitors.

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Haven't seen that specified anywhere.

 

You can usually force it with ur graphics card drivers can't you? I've done that on my current display, and old HP 19" LCD, with nVidia control panel. Got it up to 75Hz from 60.

 

I think riva tuner lets you tweak it too.

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It looks like it can do 85Hz:

But at what resolution?

 

1920x1080... that's the resolution of the display. AFAIK LCD monitors aren't like CRT ones in that you can lower the resolution and up the refresh rate. With LCD monitors you are pretty much using all the pixels no matter what resolution the video card is sending to it unless it is doing 1:1 mapping maybe. It's not like CRT monitors.

 

There's a good chance it will only do 60hz at 1920x1080. There's some part of the monitor that has to process the dvi signal, and that part on pretty much every monitor can only process single-link dvi since it's cheaper to manufacture. The expensive displays like the ~$2000 30" 2560x1600x60hz and something like ~$800 22" 1680x1050x120hz monitors are afaik the only monitors that can handle true dual-link dvi.

 

So i'd say that monitor will only do 85hz at lower resolutions, whatever is within the bandwidth of single-link dvi.

Edited by illdrift

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This is incorrect.

 

Frequencies

 

Horizontal

30 - 81 kHz

 

Vertical

50 - 85 Hz 50 - 85 Hz

 

Not 120Hz and not 85Hz. 85Hz is its maximum vertical frequency.

If you read all the results on google, no one really has any idea of what they are talking about.

I have this screen and there is no options to set it to 120Hz.

 

But yes, it is a very nice screen otherwise. Had to change the colour at first, but it was a good upgrade from a Dell 2005FPW

Edited by Barry The Penguin

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This is incorrect.

 

Frequencies

 

Horizontal

30 - 81 kHz

 

Vertical

50 - 85 Hz 50 - 85 Hz

 

Not 120Hz and not 85Hz. 85Hz is its maximum vertical frequency.

If you read all the results on google, no one really has any idea of what they are talking about.

I have this screen and there is no options to set it to 120Hz.

 

But yes, it is a very nice screen otherwise. Had to change the colour at first, but it was a good upgrade from a Dell 2005FPW

 

So what refresh rate does it do?

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60Hz, just like every other monitor out there.

 

Currently, only Samsung's SyncMaster 2233RZ and ViewSonic FuHzion VX2265wm LCD displays fit the criteria of supporting a 120Hz refresh rate at their native resolution. You can also go with analog CRTs as long as they can do 120Hz refresh rate. For higher-end consumers, Mitsubishi's range of 1080p DLP Home Theater TVs also fit the bill. However note that several other new HDTVs can support '120Hz mode', but this is not supported by the NVIDIA GeForce 3D Vision kit. These LCD TV's actually only accept the standard 1080/60p or 1080/24p input but use their internal processor to add additional frames to recreate a 120Hz internal refresh rate. The GeForce 3D Vision kit requires LCDs that can accept a 120Hz refresh rate input over Dual-Link DVI.

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view....d=2790&pg=2

Liquid crystal displays

 

Much of the discussion of refresh rate does not apply to the liquid crystal portion of an LCD monitor. This is because while a CRT monitor uses the same mechanism for both illumination and imaging, LCDs employ a separate backlight to illuminate the image being portrayed by the LCD's liquid crystal shutters. The shutters themselves do not have a "refresh rate" as such due to the fact that they always stay at whatever opacity they were last instructed to continuously, and do not become more or less transparent until instructed to produce a different opacity. Most of the TFT LCDs used in portable devices and computer monitors need a continuous refresh. The driving voltage determines the transmittance of the liquid crystal.

The closest thing liquid crystal shutters have to a refresh rate is their response time, while nearly all LCD backlights (most notably fluorescent cathodes, which commonly operate at (~200Hz) have a separate figure known as flicker, which describes how many times a second the backlight pulses on and off.

However they also have a Refresh rate that governs how often a new image is received from the video card (often at 60Hz).

 

Stereo displays

 

When LCD shutter glasses are used for stereo displays, the effective refresh rate is halved, because each eye needs a separate picture. For this reason, it is usually recommended to use a display capable of at least 120 Hz, but 200 Hz is optimal. Unfortunately most LCD monitors cannot handle this rate, especially at higher resolutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refresh_rate

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Thanks for the info, Barry. Please forgive my ignorance. BTW, my LCD monitor does 76Hz apparently.

 

I go this message from Samsung:

 

Dear Customer,

 

Thanks for using Samsung FAQ.

 

No planned Australia sets have 120hz true input at this stage, as refresh is always based off core 50hz refresh rate.

 

Sincerely,

 

Samsung Tech Support Team

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You might want to read what you monitor says in its menu. I can make my graphics card put out 120Hz but my monitor menu, under info, still says it is running of 60Hz.

 

Its a very unclear topic as far as terminology goes, so I'm only going by what I've read, as above.

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So i bought the 2494HS anyway and it does a max of 60Hz at 1920x1080.

 

My old monitor (a HP 19" LCD) could do 75Hz at 1280x1024, but thats the native 17" res, so maybe thats why.

 

Either way the display is awesome, bright as and videos look great. Nice for gaming too. Plus i think V-synced gaming at 60fps and 75fps isnt too different, i havent been feeling short changed on smoothness at all.

 

Thanks for your responses everyone.

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So i bought the 2494HS anyway and it does a max of 60Hz at 1920x1080.

 

My old monitor (a HP 19" LCD) could do 75Hz at 1280x1024, but thats the native 17" res, so maybe thats why.

 

Either way the display is awesome, bright as and videos look great. Nice for gaming too. Plus i think V-synced gaming at 60fps and 75fps isnt too different, i havent been feeling short changed on smoothness at all.

 

Thanks for your responses everyone.

Thats great then :D

 

I love mine, how was the colour out of the box?

 

 

My monitor says 76Hz.

Ok, it just seemed like a weird number. What's the monitor?

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My monitor says 76Hz.

Ok, it just seemed like a weird number. What's the monitor?

 

Sun Microsystems 19" thing, 1280x1024, couldn't tell you the actual model number sorry, I think it's pretty much a Samsung.

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bit mixed about the colours, gamings fine, desktops fine, some videos look a bit whitewashed.

 

Its usually good, but in some situations looks a bit dull.

 

What settings did you change??

 

Theres also some colour app that came on the cd which i haven't installed. Think i'll do that this arvo n see what it does.

Edited by andrej351

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I can't remember off the top of my head. I think it was what came with the CD.

 

Lets you change the colours to your suiting and saves a colour profile for you to use in windows.

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