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MisterK

Google Chrome OS

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Windows 2015 is vapourware too because we haven't seen it, it also will have no impact on the market because we can't see how it works and how it actually stacks up against other OS' in reality.

 

5 is correct.

4 is correct when looking at just Android, what about stuff like Joomla or Nagios or all sorts of other OSS? These things need time anyway, next year is slated to be a big year for the platform.

3 is true, but it's certainly seen better take up than a lot of other alternative browsers.

2 Windows 2015 is also dubious with it's security concerns because we can't test them.

1 Tell that to the multitudes of users using SaaS apps.

 

While what they say is correct, it's correct when you have blinkers on and don't bother to look at the reality of something.

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No...

 

They are not saying it is vapurware because it does not currently exist...

 

They are saying it won't have an impact on the market(and it won't, at least not significantly) because it's just another linux distro aimed at netbooks. It is, for all intents and purposes, Googles version of Moblin Linux.

 

4. Is correct. Where have Google and OSS achieved more than moderate success in any consumer market?

 

3. It's only seen take up be people who prefer the interface, or imagine a speed difference. It is by no means a major player...Opera is far, far ahead of it. Besides, the point was the Linux version of Chrome is nowhere near ready. It will have to improve substantially before they release it if people are going to adopt it as a platform.

 

2. I think you misunderstand what they are saying. Your analogy of Windows 2015 is false...in fact, there's not really any analogy that works when using Windows. They are claiming to completely rewrite the underlying security architecture. To do so, would be to substantially rewrite parts of the Linux kernel, and would probable break a lot of driver and application compatibility(the reasons they want to use Linux in the first place). Their claims are completely unfounded and unrealistic. IN reality, they probably will have something like a targeted SELinux policy, which is quite different from rewriting the underlying architecture.

 

1. This is correct as well. When I can actually do more than very simple office work in my browser, then things might have changed. As it stands, the web is in no way a replacement for local applications if you need to do anything substantial. Do you really think you could do all your work through a browser at present?

 

What they are saying is correct, you just have to look at what they are actually saying and why....

Edited by TheSecret

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It's not subjective...

 

How is their claim to rewrite the underlying security architecture of Linux not dubious? What is an example of Google and OSS making significant inroads in a consumer market? How is Chrome for Linux anywhere near being a complete browser?

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Because you don't know what they are doing.

Firefox.

This isn't about the browser on Linux.

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Maxx,

 

Comeon. Do you really think they are going to rewrite the Linux kernel, breaking compatibility, for a system targeted towards netbooks? They would have a whole lot to lose, and not much to gain by doing so.

 

Firefox is an example of Google funding another project, not an example of Google itself actually releasing a product and making inroads. They have never done so to date.

 

This is about chrome on Linux. Their Chrome OS is going to be running Chrome as the main application, and Chrome on Linux is currently crap.

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Seems like you have made your mind up on this one, condemned before leaving the gates!

But I spose if a company dares to try something different they shouldn't be given a chance huh.

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That's not what I'm saying! I'm open to it as more information comes along. Nothing wrong with judging based on the info we do have, and Googles past behaviour though. It's all well and good to be excited at the prospects and give a company a chance, but it's just as good to understand what they are doing and the technology they are using, and spot a bullshit claim when necessary...

 

In particular, their claim to rewrite the parts of the kernel to redo the security architecture is dubious, at the very best. I guarantee you, this is not the case, at all.

Edited by TheSecret

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I have to agree with the comments made by Elvenwhore. Its not that I dont trust "cloud" computing but rather more what I use my computer for. A netbook will "NEVER" ever be able to do what I do with my computer now. Even if you take out gaming which does take a lot of grunt, a fair few of my apps run in the background (eg rendering) while I am on the net doing some light reading. Really, ala MS, thats what Google is trying to do get you to move from MS run world to theirs. JSG, read a new threat, GOOGLE ... heheh.

 

I am aware that a few of the things I do on the computer can be done via cloud computing but it doesnt cover the majority of it. Security is also a major point here. Google has released very few details on it and we are yet to read their terms and conditions at release. What I would like to remind the general public is that going the way of Google is going back to they way of centralised computing which is essentially the way we came from a few decades ago. A dummy terminal. Oh, and the biggest thing would be that we will be highly dependent on Google to future proof itself.

 

Finally, even if the above werent true, the fact remains that desktop PCs are here to stay. As elvenwhore noted, the cloud does have its uses and so does the desktop. Google are just punting on the fact that most average joes would just want to go online and do their stuff so why not give them what they want so that they can stay online and do everything. That would work if everyone was like that. Seriously though, who would agree that that would be the case. I highly doubt that Window 2015 will be vapourware. And you cant run a business on cloud architecture.

 

My 2 cents, albeit a bit confusing ... >,<

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Google's OS is not "targeted at netbooks". You're kidding yourself if you think they'll be content with that. Paraphrasing what their article says (because I can't be bothered reading it again), it will appear 1st on netbooks and later on full sized systems. It's only appearing on netbooks 1st because that's the easiest and fastest to develop.

 

Thus, I agree that anything based upon a current linux kernal is not likely to be adequate for most users, and thus won't have a significant impact on the market.

 

Mark my words. This is just the tip of the iceberg for Google. This chincy linux OS is only a tinker toy for them to get their feet wet and enter the OS market. Their ace won't be played for a few years yet, and MS better watch out when they play it. :-s

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Making an OS is considerably more involved than just making a Linux distribution, and it is an area Google has absolutely no experience in, and has the wrong way of thinking to take hold of any considerable market share. I can see it having a usage share on netbooks...never on complete systems, unless it somehow is a radical innovation. If they do end up rewriting the Linux kernel significantly, then it may not be "Linux" when they are finished....

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Ill go even one further, why would the make it free if they are going to make money from this significant market and on top of that, would it be proprietary software once the kernel gets that far??

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The naïve never cease to amaze me.

 

Once upon a time, long ago, Google started with a search engine. Naive on lookers said "Google has no experience with a search engine, and won't make a significant impact, not to mention that its a stupid name that'll never catch on". Not long afterwards, Google took their search engine public. 2 years later, Google operated the best known and most used search engine in the world. They didn't charge a fee, provided it to everyone for free. And they started getting extremely rich from it.

 

In late 2002, I bought a new BMW (motorbike). I joined a BMW forum specific to that model as I customise all my bikes to some degree and do most work on them. This was my 1st boxer, and I had a lot to learn. I met a big wig from Google there, whom I'll refer to as Martin. Martin had been experimenting with new operating system concepts since the first read disk to write disk systems became available to the general public. We had a few good discussions about those, as that was my first system. He was very anti-Microsoft, and more knowledgable about computers than anyone I've ever met, bar none, even to this day. He told me then that Google would eventually dominate every facet of the computer industry with the exception of hardware, which they had no interest in at that time. Having known were they came from, and that they've never failed in anything they've tried to do, I was skeptical but not totally unconvinced. We had many a debate about security and privacy. I don't agree with many of his beliefs, but I respect that his intentions are good. I got a few unrealeased versions of tool bars from him before anyone knew they were coming. Very nice guy. Around '04 (I believe their stock had just split for the 2nd time, but could be wrong about that) Martin asked the forum to help him choose his next car. He said we could pick anything in the world, and asked our reasons for each choice. I was a bit disappointed that he didn't go with a Ferrari (my personal favorite), but what he chose cost just as much. I don't think Martin rode his BMW much after that. Shame really, as he was 300,000 mile rider on that bike alone. I haven't talked to Martin since 2005.

 

A few years after becoming very successful with their search engine Google entered the online word processing market. The naive said "Google has no experience in online word processing and won't make an impact". Microsoft played the whole idea down too. Google now has the most widely known and used online word processing programs. Microsoft and a few other companies are scrambling to find their own competitive answer.

 

Google also started buying up companies around that time. Most of it has gone widely unnoticed. Many of these are proprietary companies with patents that can have a huge impact on almost everything software and internet related. Friggin' geniuses, if you ask me. They had a vision and stuck to it, quietly. Bill Gates and Steve Jobs never had access to all the resources that Google now has.

 

As early as 2006 the public was aware that Google was working on an OS of their own. Anyone who didn't know this was coming wasn't paying attention. It was expected a couple years ago.

 

Nick Carr wonders though if Schmidt has his timing right - will 2007 be the 'tipping point'? I suspect it will be, because as we noted in our previous post about GoogleOS - when Microsoft's Vista OS gains significant adoption (which is a given, even if it won't be like the old days of people lining up outside stores for the latest Windows release), that will put pressure on Google's product line.

Add to that the Google Desktop and speculation over a GoogleOS, and it's very clear that Google is increasingly stamping all over Microsoft's turf.

And whether or not you believe a GoogleOS is on the way, it's almost certain that Google will put the pressure on with office software delivered over the Web.

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/micro...le_heats_up.php

 

Now Google is entering the operating system market. Naive people say "Google has no experience in operating system development and is taking the wrong approach to it".

 

Not surprising, Microsoft is getting a little testy about Google:

 

http://www.rethink-wireless.com/index.asp?...keywords=Google

 

And some more good reading, mostly about Google progress:

 

http://www.builderau.com.au/tag/competition-google.htm

 

Somewhere along the way, Google had the audacity to enter the mobile phone market too, with no previous experience. No way that can be successful.

 

I can't help but laugh. Its obvious to me that naive people have no clue what Google is focusing on for goals, and just what they're capable of.

 

Now I'm not a huge fan of Google, because of my own beliefs about security and privacy rights, and my own feelings about keeping applications on my computer instead of on the internet. But I also respect what they've done. They've accumulated an empire with more cash flow than Microsoft, very quietly via comparison, while avoiding major law suits, and are now in a position to invest in any technology that they choose. They have very little competition in most of their endeavors.

 

And they're just warming up.

 

As I said, I suspect that this tinker toy Linux kernal OS is just a stepping stone for Google to enter the market. There's no better form of marketing than providing free services to convince the consumers that you have a superior product. Then they start charging for it, or a variation of it, not a lot at first, but not free either. They're one of the few companies on the planet with the funds to make it happen. It would fit with their history to release a product that takes everyone by surprise and becomes the next "must have" for the majority of consumers. I don't think this Linux kernal thing is it, but I've been wrong before.. once, when I thought I was wrong but I wasn't. :-)

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they've been writing their own OS from the ground up for many years, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is about finished. They could be biding their time and perfecting it before release. Did I mention that I think they're friggin' geniuses?

 

This could all be a pipe dream. But then again, it might not be....

:-)

Edited by darklife41

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Once upon a time, long ago, Google started with a search engine. Naive on lookers said "Google has no experience with a search engine, and won't make a significant impact, not to mention that its a stupid name that'll never catch on".

Actually, Google took the search engine market by storm, and almost overnight, because it actually worked.

 

He told me then that Google would eventually dominate every facet of the computer industry with the exception of hardware, which they had no interest in at that time. Having known were they came from, and that they've never failed in anything they've tried to do, I was skeptical but not totally unconvinced. We had many a debate about security and privacy.

Google will never even come close to dominating every facet of the computer industry. At all. They have also failed at quite a few things. Google Shopping, and their wiki clone spring to mind.

 

Google now has the most widely known and used online word processing programs. Microsoft and a few other companies are scrambling to find their own competitive answer.

Rubbish. OpenOffice.org is far more popular than Google docs, and still pales in comaprison to MS Office marketshare.

 

As early as 2006 the public was aware that Google was working on an OS of their own. Anyone who didn't know this was coming wasn't paying attention. It was expected a couple years ago.

It was speculated, it was never a sure thing.

 

I can't help but laugh. Its obvious to me that naive people have no clue what Google is focusing on for goals, and just what they're capable of.

Or the naive people that can't separate fact from fiction, and vastly overestimate their capabilities..

 

They've accumulated an empire with more cash flow than Microsoft, very quietly via comparison, while avoiding major law suits, and are now in a position to invest in any technology that they choose.

They have had quite a few major lawsuits. The largest one was perhaps over the gmail trademark.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if they've been writing their own OS from the ground up for many years, and I wouldn't be surprised if it is about finished. They could be biding their time and perfecting it before release.

OK. So what does Google have to gain by becoming a software company and competing directly with the Windows, OS X and Linux markets?

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Seems like you have made your mind up on this one, condemned before leaving the gates!

But I spose if a company dares to try something different they shouldn't be given a chance huh.

To be honest I'm really just pissed that they're not "making" an operating system. They're going to create a linux distro. That's fine and I think the linux community will appreciate the development and monetary assistance.

 

When I was in high school, one of the guys wrote his own operating system from scratch. On his own mind you (no it wasn't a distro). If one kid could make an operating system, I can't see why google with all their funds and skilled developers can't make an operating system. As others have said they're probably dipping their toes in.

 

I don't know if businesses can trust google to keep their info safe and provide a decent system. I'd be more inclined to run windows on a VMware cloud system than a google one. Would cost more but you'd have more control.

 

We've experienced wan outages before. I'm sure anyone with Optus remembers the massive one last year. And other times when pipes to the US went down and US sites (including google) were unavailable. Also our network links really aren't made for cloud computing just yet.

 

I'd be happy to be proved wrong. And I hope they take this further and develop a solid, easy to use and easy to support operating system. For home users it's great but if you think business won't be picking up the cheque, you're dreaming. It could be the way of the future, cut down on upgrade costs (you won't need a flash new computer just something with internet access).

 

Only time will tell.

Edited by spaced

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When I was in high school, one of the guys wrote his own operating system from scratch. On his own mind you (no it wasn't a distro).

Are you certain of that?

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When I was in high school, one of the guys wrote his own operating system from scratch. On his own mind you (no it wasn't a distro).

Are you certain of that?

 

Yep, well as sure as one can be. This was in 1995 - 96.

Edited by spaced

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For an x86 computer? kernel, userland, drivers and everything? That is a remarkably impressive feat for any one individual...

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Google need to give Hyperion lots of money to have OS4.x ported to x86, and add a little bit of modern web functionality <.>

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For an x86 computer? kernel, userland, drivers and everything? That is a remarkably impressive feat for any one individual...

I could be wrong, wouldn't be the first or last time. I can only go off what he and others told me.

 

Dude was gifted with programming.

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It's just such a huge feat. I can't see any high school kid pulling it offer, no matter how talented. I couldn't even see an adult pulling it off, not within a year. Perhaps he just wrote a very simple kernel or something? Even then that would be mightily impressive. If he wrote it from scratch surely he would have kept it and released it?

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Its all conjecture at this time and really its moot if they are or they arent. I will reserve my judgement for when the time comes. Simply put, if they can do better than MS, then theyve got my vote. The things is we have been bitten before by MS and whos to say that Google wont do the same??

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