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Oracle X

ZOMG! It's C&C4!

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we should play a game of RA3 sometime I will show you what I mean, seriously there is nothing that can defend against 10 or more Kirovs, they have shitloads of health and deal out incredible damage.

Maybe so but Kirovs are expensive and slow to build plus whilst travelling they're slow, thus its a long time between first and last kirov built plus travel time. They're defenceless in the air too so if the enemy finds you out in or before transit a couple squadrons of elite Appolo's will rip em up good. But if you get the drop on their base then yeah they're stuffed. Unless they have F* off amounts of AA defences built.

 

If they did that they leave themselves open to a ground based attack and wouldn't stand a chance :P, lure them into a false sense of security, send 3 kirovs and make them think your going to kirov spam but make an auxilary tank base off to the side and spam your most powerful tank, game would be easily won that way to.

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Yes there's dual mode in RA2 but like I said, it's often a case of switching from AA to AG and vice versa, or the other side would have a similar skill, whereas in SC and WC, they're more unique and are used in conjuncture with other skills to achieve domination over the enemy. This is a recent thing for C&C, Blizzard been using this for years.

I disagree. Factually. Moreso if you are referring to RA3.

 

The skills and abilities are just as unique, and are used in conjuncture with other skills to achieve domination.

 

I think your differences are largely subjective, and non accurate.

 

 

Yes you can, but it's still a huge part of the game, assuming your game goes that long, you'll be building some simply because your enemy prob will.

So what?

 

I often play without superweapons for a longer match.

 

I play with superweapons sometimes, which adds an extra element of danger. It doesn't remove strategy from the game.

 

 

Really? Which? And how are they superior?

I would say they are superior by your own criteria, such as ability to do research, uniques of units, ability to use different units in conjunction etc.

 

Not to mention graphics.

 

More to the point though, before I list any titles, do you really not think there has been a single RTS better than SC since SC was released?

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More to the point though, before I list any titles, do you really not think there has been a single RTS better than SC since SC was released?

In terms of balance, execution and replayablity? No. Though WC3 pretty much ties with it.

 

In other aspects? Lots of other games has more to offer, but none of them were as well put-together as SC.

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Oh dear.

 

It's a gamble, I'll give it that. Just hope they know what they're doing.

as far as making a good game goes ea has no clue

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More to the point though, before I list any titles, do you really not think there has been a single RTS better than SC since SC was released?

In terms of balance, execution and replayablity? No. Though WC3 pretty much ties with it.

 

In other aspects? Lots of other games has more to offer, but none of them were as well put-together as SC.

 

Rubbish.

 

Your living in the past, and as bad as people who think there is no FPS better than HL.

 

For starters, check out Total Annihilation(which came before SC!) and Sins of a solar empire. They are both far far far better than SC.

 

Personally, I would also put forward RA3 as well, although it isn't as diverse.

Edited by TheSecret

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For starters, check out Total Annihilation(which came before SC!) and Sins of a solar empire. They are both far far far better than SC.

You're kidding!

 

TA isn't even good enough to tie TA's shoelaces! And SoASE? You must have missed all the discussion we had on its shortcomings a few months ago. That thread is still floating around in this section somewhere.

Edited by Oracle X

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Sins of a solar empire has a few short comings, mostly once the tech war is finished it is really boring, as soon as you have all the battle cruisers it's boring. Really there is no variety and the options of only coming and going from certain directions makes for no real strategy past surrounding someone. I find TA only good for the nostalgia value, doesn't even work in your argument because it came out way before SC. SC improved on everything that TA had to offer.

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You're kidding!

 

TA isn't even good enough to tie TA's shoelaces! And SoASE? You must have missed all the discussion we had on its shortcomings a few months ago. That thread is still floating around in this section somewhere.

Honestly though, your see to be a bit of an SC fanboi, so I don't think much is going to change your mind.

 

There is this though:

 

Forty Reasons why Total Annihilation is better than Starcraft

 

SoASE is far more diverse than SC for multiplayer. Far, far, far more. Why would you disagree?

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Honestly though, your see to be a bit of an SC fanboi, so I don't think much is going to change your mind.

Maybe because its one of the best RTS games out there?

 

For example an anti air unit actually is good at what it does and ground based defenses pretty much obliterate anything coming head on at them, that's how it should be, on RA3 for instance you have to switch the rising suns units into anti air or anti ground I mean seriously wtf? why cant they attack both air and ground units (mecha tengu and chopper VX)? like if your micromanaging an entire base you hardly have time to individually set your defenses for each attack. I like to set and forget and SC allows me to do that, slap 2 ground based defenses and an AA tower under a shield and it works perfectly none of this alternate fire BS that RA3 in particular likes to use.

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nesquick,

 

I'm not denying it is one of the best games. I'm just saying it is also overrated.

 

I think from your replies you really don't understand the C&C or RA games.

 

Your judging stuff against SC, and not on its own merits.

 

The reason the rising sun units can switch modes is part of strategy, and something unique to the rising sun. It's actually really useful, to be able to switch to air and attack land units that cant attack you and vice versa. it is a nice tactical advantage, and something unique to the rising sun. There are units that can attack both air and land if you want, but they will have different drawbacks, such as being slower or more expensive.

 

Part of strategy....

 

micromanagement is a big part of SC. It's not something to criticize the other games for having too much, and then praise SC..WTF?

 

RA3 and C&C games can be as slap and forget as you want. If you play of the russians, you can make things as simple as you want.

 

From your reply, it seems like RA3 has too many options...

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SoASE is far more diverse than SC for multiplayer. Far, far, far more. Why would you disagree?

 

errr, in what way? All the races have pretty much the same technology. Each games takes hours to play with most of that time spent sitting around waiting for tech research to finish. I think the fact that SC is still one of the most played multiplayer game out there should tell you how diverse it is.

 

 

 

Look I'm not saying that C&C and SC are the same. They're not. But if you want a game that's rich and diverse in combinations and possibilities and allows different players to develop his own unique style and techniques, then SC (or WC3) is the perfect game to do that.

Edited by Oracle X

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I think from your replies you really don't understand the C&C or RA games.

Whats there to understand? you setup a base at point X and spam as many of unit Y as you can, thats pretty much it, I want to go back to the days where you had like 1 spy or attack dog (or the ghost stalker from Tiberian Sun) to do the entire mission, that is tactics even if there were explosive barrels placed in strategic places for you.

 

Like I said You can try and use overwhelming force in SC but it hardly ever works unless its like 2-3 galactic collossus's or 10 spiderbots.

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Whats there to understand? you setup a base at point X and spam as many of unit Y as you can, thats pretty much it,

This is just proving you don't understand. You can't even figure out how to use(or have not bothered to learn) the units properly in RA3, so it isn't surprising you are mistaking it for a completely different type of game.

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Not much to learn, if you try and be strategic you usually get spammed by the computer (which seems to have infinite resources sometimes) or you wipped out by super weapons you cant touch because the other side has so many again spammed anti air units or ground defenses.

 

I have played every C&C game except the very first one and they all play the same, tactics for the most part are useless in this game series, flanking is hardly ever rewarded same with mixing up your attacking units.

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You're so wrong...

 

It's not just spamming at all. Unless you play it that way. Preconceptions much?

 

You accuse RA3 of having too much micromanagement and then of too much spamming....that's just not right....

Edited by TheSecret

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It's not Dune 2, it's not WC1, and it's not C&C1 or RA1 - so it'll probably be bad.

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You're so wrong...

 

It's not just spamming at all. Unless you play it that way. Preconceptions much?

 

You accuse RA3 of having too much micromanagement and then of too much spamming....that's just not right....

Its having to tell defenses what mode they should be in, cant they just do what the allies do and have 1 that does everything? any game with a base and units will have micromanagement its part of the game.

 

I think I am giving out the wrong message though, C&C is not a bad franchise and their games can be fun in a non tactical kind of way but if I want to use tactics I will go and play SC or the real time battles in Empire:TW (which is also awesome and actually rewards you for doing things like putting your infantry up on top of a hill instead of out in the open or by bayonet charging at the right moment)

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My point is that RA3 has tactics, but you are choosing to play it as just spamming, because you think that is all it is.

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You have yet to example these tactics.

Err.

 

What kind of example would you like? I think mark84 would give better examples, but I can try.

 

Do you really not think the game has any tactics and is just spammy?

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Things like using helicopters and bombers to destroy a prism tower or whatever so your ground units can come for example is what I would class and non tactical.

 

tactics would be something like making a force of some wave artillery and draw your enemies units out and then send them in the back destroying all of their production facilities while their units are off killing your wave artillery would be an example of tactics imo.

 

sure it might work but your guaranteed to win if you just built like 20 king oni's and fucked up their base after all you just need to destroy the war factory, mcv and docks and they are fucked.

Edited by nesquick

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sure it might work but your guaranteed to win if you just built like 20 king oni's and fucked up their base after all you just need to destroy the war factory, mcv and docks and they are fucked.

Why do you think this?

 

You can defend against 20 kind oni's, as while they have strength, they also have weaknesses. Something you have to consider.

 

You can make more than one MCV, and if you play as the Japanese, your bas can be split around the entire map.

 

I've had people destroy my dock air and war factories and been unable to get through to the rest of my base. It's really not as simple as you make it sound, at all. If you played that game against anyone using anything remotely resembling tactics, you'd likely get raped.

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sure it might work but your guaranteed to win if you just built like 20 king oni's and fucked up their base after all you just need to destroy the war factory, mcv and docks and they are fucked.

Why do you think this?

 

You can defend against 20 kind oni's, as while they have strength, they also have weaknesses. Something you have to consider.

 

You can make more than one MCV, and if you play as the Japanese, your bas can be split around the entire map.

 

I've had people destroy my dock air and war factories and been unable to get through to the rest of my base. It's really not as simple as you make it sound, at all. If you played that game against anyone using anything remotely resembling tactics, you'd likely get raped.

 

I can see this is descending into an argument where each of us thinks he is right so I am going to leave it at what I said above, just go and play some online games you will see what I mean, usually it comes down to who builds their bases faster and if they can manufacture the most powerful units faster than anyone else.

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I've played all of the games you mention, and it's arrogant to say RA3 is simply spamming.

 

Anytime you want to have a game, let me know. Although, I'm in Germany, so you would have to have a decent connection.

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