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.:Cyb3rGlitch:.

Thinking of switching to Ethernet over power

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As the title reveals, I'm looking into buying an Ethernet over power kit. I currently have a wireless connection, however I find it unreliable when playing online games. Every now and then I get drop-outs and lag. So I was wondering, would I be better off with Ethernet over power, or does that share the same issues as wireless? I also suspect that drivers may be one of the causes of my problems, so an Ethernet connection would help in regards to that.

 

Thoughts?

Edited by .:Cyb3rGlitch:.

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I used it fro a while back when they where new and the max speed was only about 11 Mbps, Seemed to work ok with no dramas or issues, but I have since had some cabling run for a proper 100Mbit LAN as I am often transferring large files between PCs. 11Mbps was just too bloody slow.

Newer gear is quite a bit faster, but still not up to normal LAN speeds.

TP-Link units are the cheapest but treat the 200Mbps claim with a great deal of scepticism.

http://www.scorptec.com.au/computer/30466-tl-pa201

Not used these but other TP-Link gear I have seems to be quite good.

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Ahh yeah, I was looking at the TP-Link units. I found a kit for $150, which should do the trick.

 

So would it be right to say that EoP is more reliable for online gaming than wireless? Is it comparable to a direct CAT5e connection? Throughput doesn't concern me too much.

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Ahh yeah, I was looking at the TP-Link units. I found a kit for $150, which should do the trick.

 

So would it be right to say that EoP is more reliable for online gaming than wireless? Is it comparable to a direct CAT5e connection? Throughput doesn't concern me too much.

I have used a EoP for my PS3/Xbox 360/ Bedroom network, it provides a 54 mbps supposedly. I was using a Netcomm NP285 connected to a small network hub. It a lot better than Wireless network. No need to install drivers on my laptop or any drivers any necessary. Of course that the Cat5e will be more powerful, but i think you won't notice.

Edited by 2SHY

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a couple of guys from work have just got these as an alternative to wireless...

 

they both claim to get around 40~70Mbps, that would be fine for online gaming even HD streaming

 

performance of the POE devices really depends on the quality of cabling and amount of circuits/phases in your house

 

also, if you have the kind of power in your house that randomly switches off appliances and dimms lights when you turn something on then they're probably not for u

 

if they were slightly cheaper i'd definately look at these to run my network off

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they both claim to get around 40~70Mbps, that would be fine for online gaming even HD streaming

I'm not worried about the speed, but the reliability.

 

I need to know if these devices are better than Wireless for gaming in terms of lost packets/interference/latency.

 

Otherwise, this looks like a really good deal: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/TP-Link-200Mbps-Hom...=item2c512458fb

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Speed impacts on latency though and it's unlikely you will be able to game effectively with a 10 meg connection.

It also depends on your wiring as stated. It's going to be a buy and try thing I dare say.

 

Can you not run cables under the carpet?

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I'd love to run the cable under the carpet, but my parents aren't too keen. I'm not exactly sure how I'd go about doing it either. I'll have to ask again.

 

Buy and try does seem to be the only way I'll find out. Apparently no one has these things. Well, no one that uses them for PC gaming anyway.

 

Oh, and the house is fairly new (less than a decade old). The wiring should be fine in that regard.

Edited by .:Cyb3rGlitch:.

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Speed impacts on latency though and it's unlikely you will be able to game effectively with a 10 meg connection.

It also depends on your wiring as stated. It's going to be a buy and try thing I dare say.

 

Can you not run cables under the carpet?

or in the case of a wooden floored house, under the FLOOR (small drill and some silicone, use CAT6 shielded, power wires and animals under there.)

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At the risk of seeming like a broken record... why do you keep suggesting that people use shielded TP cable?

 

Using shielded twisted pair cabling requires that all of your connectors, equipment and other fixtures are of the sheilded variety, and are earthed properly. If installed incorrectly, the shielding in the cable acts as a huge antenna and does more harm than good.

 

Unless by shielded you mean something else that isn't actual foil RF shielding....

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for under floor use its quite simple:

 

1. better twists because you're likely to get some nasy interferance from crossing your mains power cables, possibility of running under the fridge etc.

 

2. Shielded for the above, and because while the cable rubber is nice and soft and wil be gnawed, once they hit the tin foil, MOST rodents will stop.

 

Otherwise, I just like the added reliability of cat6, assuming you're either only doing 1 cable, or a whole house (the middle ground is where its expensive) then its only like.. what, a couple of dollars more?

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But Cat6 does not = shielded. And I think I've said this a few times.

 

There is Cat6 UTP and STP.

 

UTP is what we're all used to.

 

STP has a myriad of other requirements. It's not just the few dollars more per metre, it's all the additional work of grounding your termination points.

 

Most NICs aren't equipped for STP either.

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Speed impacts on latency though and it's unlikely you will be able to game effectively with a 10 meg connection.

Um WTF max? Then how can people game on a 1500/256 connection, much slower than a 10meg LAN.

 

You could easily LAN play with half a dozen machines on a 10 meg LAN, so long as no bastard decides to leech some files at the same time.

Cyber, providing your house wiring is ok then they should only add a few ms to your ping at worst and got to be better than flakey wireless.

Although do note that they are really wireless devices that just inject the wireless signal in to the copper power lines.

The most likely causes of issues apart from bad electrical wiring are electrically noisy devices on your power. Things like dodgy fridges and bad plug pack power supplies like modems and stuff use.

From reading other forums crapola plug packs seem the most common problem for EOP even to the point of interfering with ADSL modems and routers as well as EOP.

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Interesting. My only other alternative (apart from ripping up carpet) is a wireless AP. I'm fairly certain the issues I'm having are driver related, and a wireless AP connects via Ethernet. The modem is just in the next room, and we don't have a microwave here to cause interference, so that seems to be the culprit.

 

So it's either the TP-Link 200mbps EoP, or a Freenet AP.

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Interesting. My only other alternative (apart from ripping up carpet) is a wireless AP. I'm fairly certain the issues I'm having are driver related, and a wireless AP connects via Ethernet. The modem is just in the next room, and we don't have a microwave here to cause interference, so that seems to be the culprit.

 

So it's either the TP-Link 200mbps EoP, or a Freenet AP.

Mm the AP might be the way to go especially with a small directional antenna, a bit more flexible than EOP, and it would be cheaper.

The advantage of going EOP is you can easily buy more units so every room can have a network connection, plus of course no wireless for some driveby tard to try to break.

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Well the AP costs the same as the EoP kit. To be honest, I'm not a fan of having so many wireless devices around me, and considering we have 4 PCs connecting that way, it might be best to have a physical connection.

 

I guess I can always sell the EoP kit if it doesn't do what I want.

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But Cat6 does not = shielded. And I think I've said this a few times.

 

There is Cat6 UTP and STP.

 

UTP is what we're all used to.

 

STP has a myriad of other requirements. It's not just the few dollars more per metre, it's all the additional work of grounding your termination points.

 

Most NICs aren't equipped for STP either.

although the STANDARD demands the switch itself do the grounding to prevent alien crosstalk, doesnt grounding it anywhere acomplish the same thing? If not, then ignore the shield sugestion.

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Umm. Not quite sure what you meant by that sentence, but I'll do my best.

 

For the purposes of the actual ethernet signal (That is, obtaining +2V, +1V, 0V, -1V, -2V), you need a reference point for 0. That is provided by the devices on the network. That is, the computer, the switch, whatever. This is what the Ethernet standard (IEEE 802.3) defines. This reference point is not actively used in the rejection of EMI, or the elimination of crosstalk.

 

That is to say, when dealing with UTP cable (even Cat6 UTP), ALL noise rejection and crosstalk elimination is performed by the twists, the whole twists, and nothing but the twists.

 

When dealing with S/UTP, STP, and S/STP cable, the actual foil shielding and/or screening needs to be connected to earth at every termination point. It is separate to the 0v reference point your devices use. The shielding is not connected to any of the 8 wires that run through it, since there is no "ground" pin in any standard using twisted-pair cabling. It is extra work, requires specialised (and harder to obtain) connectors and wallplate keystones, and offers no advantage given the short distances encountered in the home.

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cool thanks for the update.

 

Question though; isnt EMI naturally blocked slightly by ANY metal surface? hence shielded being at least slightly beneficial? Hence why you can hear static from a PC using an FM radio in a perspex case, but not in a steel one?

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Interesting. My only other alternative (apart from ripping up carpet) is a wireless AP. I'm fairly certain the issues I'm having are driver related, and a wireless AP connects via Ethernet. The modem is just in the next room, and we don't have a microwave here to cause interference, so that seems to be the culprit.

 

So it's either the TP-Link 200mbps EoP, or a Freenet AP.

What are you proposing here exactly? That the client device with the problem will connect to a new AP via wireless, and the AP connects to the switch/router?

(as opposed to the client device with the problem connecting to the AP via Ethernet and the AP associating to something else in client mode)

 

Question though; isnt EMI naturally blocked slightly by ANY metal surface? hence shielded being at least slightly beneficial?

Yes, generally EMI can be blocked by metal, but...

 

If installed incorrectly, the shielding in the cable acts as a huge antenna and does more harm than good.

Edited by segger

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What are you proposing here exactly? That the client device with the problem will connect to a new AP via wireless, and the AP connects to the switch/router?

(as opposed to the client device with the problem connecting to the AP via Ethernet and the AP associating to something else in client mode)

My idea was:

 

PC ----ethernet----> AP ----wireless----> router/modem

 

Basically replacing the need for a wireless card which requires drivers.

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I remember reading that the EOP device can't be run on a powerboard, it needs its own socket.

But I would much prefer it to wireless. I run a cable down my hallway to avoid having to use a shitty G wireless router.

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