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R18+ Classification for Computer Games - Public Consultation

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Well here is the response, if you can call it that.

E-Petition results

that's the Queensland AG's way of saying, "I'm gonna wait to see how this plays out before making a decision, but i dont want you to think I'm dismissing it".

 

boy, he must think the senator he's talking to is a moron or something. Queensland's AG CAN make amendments to the federal scheme as he so chooses, it onyl works on a state level, and yet here he's claiming that he has no power to do so. I guess the State powers Act just something that happened to other states then, huh?

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Hmm that 'professor' has a ridiculous stance on R18+

I don't care what she thinks, my problem is that she is able to add weight to the debate at least in the media despite having no background in the area and doesn't give facts but gives opinions.

 

Why does Elizabeth Handsley feel she is an authority for this topic?

This has nothing to do with her expertise, she lists:

 

"Bachelor of Arts, Bachelor of Laws (UNSW)

 

Master of Laws (Northwestern)"

 

As her qualifications.

And of her publications she seems to be mostly involved with Food advertising with Children and a few others on totally irrelevant topics to media or gaming.

If this chick has any roll to play in any of this it would be more as a legal advisory role or maybe assessing criteria for possible classification of games NOT deciding that in her opinion

"the introduction of an R18+ classification would only make it more widely available." a claim which is based on no research. Secondly it is implicit that this would be a bad thing, on what basis would this be bad?

 

I just wish this debate would at least get informed the people commenting in the media have no background in gaming, no case studies are being used. We are the last western society to not have an R18, everyone else has gone first, that provides ample opportunity for case study but no one fuckin talks about it. Instead we will just get people like this stupid bitch who thinks she knows best presenting only her opinion on what she thinks having R18 would do to this country. Get informed and relevantly qualified people and spokes people form the industry giants companies like EB games vendor to all over the world including Austraila lets hear form them they would have more relevant info than this chick.

Edited by Bundy

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http://www.abc.net.au/technology/articles/.../21/3169102.htm

 

It seems that they have converted the unconvertible.

 

Horrible thing about it, is that she doesn't seem to have changed her stance - It's the acceptable material under an R18+ classification that has been altered.

 

Not good news at all.

Add to the above...

 

Elizabeth Handsley – We have Not Changed Our Stance On R18+

 

 

By Mark Serrels on March 21, 2011 at 1:30 PM

Earlier ABC reported that Elizabeth Handsley, Professor of Law at Flinders University and President of the Australian Council on Children and the Media, had softened her stance on R18+. After speaking to Handsley on the phone, she claimed that her stance has not changed and that her priority, as it has always been, is making sure that violent material does not fall into the hands of children.

 

“We’ve not changed our stance,” claimed Handsley, “but if you were to create a higher level rating, and apply the current MA15+ rating to that, then yes, we’re happy for gamers to have their adult rating.”

 

When asked what she thought of future games, games that would most likely be refused classification under MA15+, being given an R18+ rating and then sold in stores – like Mortal Kombat for example – Handsley became more cautious.

 

“It all depends on the type of violence,” began Handsley. “For us the most important questions are – is the violence glamourised, are you rewarded for the violence, what is the impact of the violence?”

 

We then asked Handsley what her ideal resolution to the R18+ debate would be.

 

“It’s difficult to talk about ideal resolutions – you have to talk about likely resolutions,” claimed Handsley. “It looks like Brendan O’Connor is determined for change, and we’re happy for a change, but we don’t want an increased amount of violence in the games on the market.”

 

“If O’Connor opened his copy of the constitution he would see that there is no clear way for him to legislate on this matter, and we’re questioning why he is going so hard on this issue. There’s discussion to be had – we’re always in favour of measures that help protect children from violent content. Anything that minimises that risk, we’re in favour of.

 

“My ideal world is one where there is an honest debate about this issue, and not one where people get misled into thinking that adding an R18+ classification to the system will provide better protection to children from material that everybody seems to agree is inappropriate for them. If you look at my various publishings on this matter you’ll see that that has been my constant theme.”

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but we don’t want an increased amount of violence in the games on the market.

This is what i mean, present a case as to why this is a bad thing, don't just give your unqualified opinion.

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This is so fucking embarrassing, I watch too many news pieces from other countries, pretty much laughing at how incredibly pathetic this is. What a bunch of moronic so ignorant of a topic are in charge of making this decision.

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R-18+ classification debate is really bringing out the cockroaches from the under the rocks. Just pity that not only will our technological achievements suffer but our general freedom of expression.

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but we don’t want an increased amount of violence in the games on the market.

This is what i mean, present a case as to why this is a bad thing, don't just give your unqualified opinion.

 

But I don't want an increased amount of violence in the games on the market.

I don't need to present a case, I don't want it.

and an R18+ will allow that, that's what it's there for in the australian market.

 

 

 

 

R-18+ classification debate is really bringing out the cockroaches from the under the rocks. Just pity that not only will our technological achievements suffer but our general freedom of expression.

(bold is my emphasys)

 

can you quantify that? i'm struggling for examples.

 

There is bias on both side of this discussion

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Bundy: Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if you feel they're wrong.

 

In short though, I disagree with you meowkitty. You'll always have a choice in what you buy, what you view. No one will sit down and force you to play these violent games. No one will force you to buy these for your kids and let them play it. Also if you or you kids are even remotely savvy, like many other gamers, they'll get a copy through other means as this isn't really stopping anyone from playing these guys, infact they're just not regulating / controlling it with a proper classification system instead saying "well we banned it *dusts hands* my job is done!"

 

And playing ignorant.

 

Also there are plenty of violent games on the market (including the Australian market) right now, will the R18+ allow more? Well ... maybe. Dead Space 1/2, AVP, God of War series, etc are all violent games that have decapitation, removal of limbs, blood and much violence.

 

So whilst I respect your opinion here, let me be the first of many to say, you're no doubt ignorant on the topic and have no real understanding on what's going on here. Therefore your opinion doesn't have much weight behind it. And not just because I disagree with it.

 

EDIT:

 

Just on your last bit there, I view video games as a form of Art and Expression. Obviously you don't but I do, it has all the characteristics of Art. As a round-about example, it would be like getting Michaelangelo's David out here to Australia, and putting on a pair of shorts because no one would like to see a wang in marble form.

Edited by Gharphield

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This is so fucking embarrassing, I watch too many news pieces from other countries, pretty much laughing at how incredibly pathetic this is. What a bunch of moronic so ignorant of a topic are in charge of making this decision.

that's also what the game companies say.

who ever reports this is being sensational and we as a community that want the R18 use it as an excuse. it's just a distraction that the AG will see through or ignore as is their agenda.

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This is so fucking embarrassing, I watch too many news pieces from other countries, pretty much laughing at how incredibly pathetic this is. What a bunch of moronic so ignorant of a topic are in charge of making this decision.

that's also what the game companies say.

who ever reports this is being sensational and we as a community that want the R18 use it as an excuse. it's just a distraction that the AG will see through or ignore as is their agenda.

 

I'm reporting it and I'm not exaggerating it at all. I keep up to date on a lot of gaming news, it's embarassing that as a nation we're even discussing it. We've had 1 game banned because it had ... graffiti in it. I'm not kidding. The AG have had over 2 years to discuss this. With the vast majority of public opinion wanting this, wanting a proper classification system.

 

And by that I mean something that is to be enforced. I don't just want an R18+ tag on a game and have it as a recommendation. I want it there so that 13 year olds can't walk up and buy that game WITHOUT their parents permission.

 

I put it to you though, explain why you're against this? And I don't just mean "oh I don't want more violent games on the market" I'm asking how that will affect you as a person and your life and what you're afraid of?

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I don't need to present a case, I don't want it.

We're talking about an issue that affects the whole population, not just you.

 

You'd better have a damn good reason why you think I, a tax paying adult, shouldn't be allowed to access R18+ grade content.

 

If YOU are concerned about what YOUR children watch, then YOU must be the arbiter of that, not a panel of bureaucrats in Canberra.

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Bundy: Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if you feel they're wrong.

 

In short though, I disagree with you meowkitty. You'll always have a choice in what you buy, what you view. No one will sit down and force you to play these violent games. No one will force you to buy these for your kids and let them play it. Also if you or you kids are even remotely savvy, like many other gamers, they'll get a copy through other means as this isn't really stopping anyone from playing these guys, infact they're just not regulating / controlling it with a proper classification system instead saying "well we banned it *dusts hands* my job is done!"

 

And playing ignorant.

 

Also there are plenty of violent games on the market (including the Australian market) right now, will the R18+ allow more? Well ... maybe. Dead Space 1/2, AVP, God of War series, etc are all violent games that have decapitation, removal of limbs, blood and much violence.

 

So whilst I respect your opinion here, let me be the first of many to say, you're no doubt ignorant on the topic and have no real understanding on what's going on here. Therefore your opinion doesn't have much weight behind it. And not just because I disagree with it.

 

EDIT:

 

Just on your last bit there, I view video games as a form of Art and Expression. Obviously you don't but I do, it has all the characteristics of Art. As a round-about example, it would be like getting Michaelangelo's David out here to Australia, and putting on a pair of shorts because no one would like to see a wang in marble form.

ignorant. good on ya.

I can see you made the point of "Also if you or you kids are even remotely savvy, like many other gamers, they'll get a copy through other means as this isn't really stopping anyone from playing these guys, infact they're just not regulating / controlling it with a proper classification system instead saying "well we banned it *dusts hands* my job is done!""

and ran with it. you ran in the wrong direction.

I've pointed out to the parent of a 12 year old that maybe COD:BO was a bit wrong for their age. but how do you take back a favoured Christmas pressent? (that was their call) I actively check my kids computer, games, downloads and police it, discuss it and do anything but dust my hands of it.

 

 

reread my statement. i'll post it again for the fun of it.

 

"But I don't want an increased amount of violence in the games on the market.

I don't need to present a case, I don't want it."

 

see, as a consumer of gaming product, video entertainment and an adult I have come to the conclusion through many years of observation that there is quite enough violence. while I apreciate that other countries have r+ ratings I am quite happy to have MA as the top in australia because I want to push back at the makers of gore and say, I find your product should have no place in society. you can have your artistic expression but can you let go of the need to out do every thing on gore and sensationalsim and make it good to watch or play.

it's what living in a capitalist society does for us, money talks.

 

I know i'm saying this in the wrong community but do we really need to up the standards?

what makes the MA standard? what makes the R Standard?

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Bundy: Everyone's entitled to their opinion, even if you feel they're wrong.

 

In short though, I disagree with you meowkitty. You'll always have a choice in what you buy, what you view. No one will sit down and force you to play these violent games. No one will force you to buy these for your kids and let them play it. Also if you or you kids are even remotely savvy, like many other gamers, they'll get a copy through other means as this isn't really stopping anyone from playing these guys, infact they're just not regulating / controlling it with a proper classification system instead saying "well we banned it *dusts hands* my job is done!"

 

And playing ignorant.

 

Also there are plenty of violent games on the market (including the Australian market) right now, will the R18+ allow more? Well ... maybe. Dead Space 1/2, AVP, God of War series, etc are all violent games that have decapitation, removal of limbs, blood and much violence.

 

So whilst I respect your opinion here, let me be the first of many to say, you're no doubt ignorant on the topic and have no real understanding on what's going on here. Therefore your opinion doesn't have much weight behind it. And not just because I disagree with it.

 

EDIT:

 

Just on your last bit there, I view video games as a form of Art and Expression. Obviously you don't but I do, it has all the characteristics of Art. As a round-about example, it would be like getting Michaelangelo's David out here to Australia, and putting on a pair of shorts because no one would like to see a wang in marble form.

ignorant. good on ya.

I can see you made the point of "Also if you or you kids are even remotely savvy, like many other gamers, they'll get a copy through other means as this isn't really stopping anyone from playing these guys, infact they're just not regulating / controlling it with a proper classification system instead saying "well we banned it *dusts hands* my job is done!""

and ran with it. you ran in the wrong direction.

I've pointed out to the parent of a 12 year old that maybe COD:BO was a bit wrong for their age. but how do you take back a favoured Christmas pressent? (that was their call) I actively check my kids computer, games, downloads and police it, discuss it and do anything but dust my hands of it.

 

 

reread my statement. i'll post it again for the fun of it.

 

"But I don't want an increased amount of violence in the games on the market.

I don't need to present a case, I don't want it."

 

see, as a consumer of gaming product, video entertainment and an adult I have come to the conclusion through many years of observation that there is quite enough violence. while I apreciate that other countries have r+ ratings I am quite happy to have MA as the top in australia because I want to push back at the makers of gore and say, I find your product should have no place in society. you can have your artistic expression but can you let go of the need to out do every thing on gore and sensationalsim and make it good to watch or play.

it's what living in a capitalist society does for us, money talks.

 

I know i'm saying this in the wrong community but do we really need to up the standards?

what makes the MA standard? what makes the R Standard?

 

Want to know why people are calling your views on this ignorant? disagreeing with you? It's because you go "I have an opinion" then you don't back it up.

 

Lets start with your first example. A PARENT buys their child a game (Black Ops) and then goes "oops, guess that's a bit violent for them". Guess what buddy, that game already has an MA15+ rating on it! Now, I'm not there, I don't know all the details, but I'm calling those parents the STUPIDEST PARENTS ON EARTH! Seriously. You can't make up for stupidity, but those parents take the cake.

 

I want to really drive this into you so you know how utterly stupid that example is. The PARENTS, go out and BUY their child this game that has an MA15+ rating on it. How is this anyones fault except the parents? Maybe if adults such as that would start taking responsibility for their actions and their childs lives, there would be less ignorant opinions on topics such as this. Or should we ban all violent games because some stupid parents buy their underage children a game that they've done no research on and can't read the damn label on the game itself.

 

As for you last example. Your opinion, whilst is yours, is a bit in the dark when it comes to why you feel that way. I have been doing Martial Arts for about 10 years now, and I've never been in a fight. And I mean the violent kind, I've been hit, knocked down, bruised and battered and I've done it to other people. That being said I've ALWAYS walked or talked my way out of a real fight. Until you can PROVE that violent video games cause violence in society (and other forms of violence, like Movies, Media and Social activities).

 

As for your question on how things are classified, I'm not going to Google the OFLC conditions for you, you can do that yourself. And whilst you're at it, go look at studies that disprove your way of thinking.

 

 

EDIT - Spelling

Edited by Gharphield

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On top of everything Garph says, there's the unbridled sense of arrogance that comes from "These are my personal standards, and I want to enforce these on everybody. If you don't share my standards, too bad."

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The funny thing is (and this has been reported on heaps) games that are getting in under the MA15+ rating are being rated as R elsewhere.

 

Other games, like AVP, in which you can rip the head off a human and ogle it, get RC and then appealed and come in under MA15+ while they are R elsewhere.

 

Once again for emphasis, as it stands, the OFLC is letting in games that should clearly be R18+ under the MA15+ tag - the result? Violent games in the hands of kids.

 

If we bring in the R18+ classification and actively police it (ie. Ask for ID when someone who looks underage wants to buy it) then this will actually stop violent games getting into the hands of kids.

 

For the rest of it, parents should read the fucking packaging and do their own research rather than blaming those evil game developers.

 

The average age of the Australian gamer is around 28 or so last time I checked, why aren't we allowed to have our violent video games if we want them?

Edited by nukejockey

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The average age of the Australian gamer is around 28 or so last time I checked, why aren't we allowed to have our violent video games if we want them?

meowkitty's answer to this is "Because I personally don't want them, therefore you shouldn't have them, that's my opinion."

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I don't see how people can oppose this, it makes the parents life easier because they don't have to fully investigate a game, they should just know that an R game isn't for kids.

Edited by King_Of_The_Mountain

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I don't see how people can oppose this, it makes the parents life easier because they don't have to fully investigate a game, they should just know that an R game isn't for kids.

Not if you use Meowkittys example where stupid parents ignore labels and buy the game anyway :)

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I don't see how people can oppose this, it makes the parents life easier because they don't have to fully investigate a game, they should just know that an R game isn't for kids.

Not if you use Meowkittys example where stupid parents ignore labels and buy the game anyway :)

 

So it would be like going to the store and buying a porn for your kids and then complaining that they made it in the first place?

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"But I don't want an increased amount of violence in the games on the market.

I don't need to present a case, I don't want it."

 

see, as a consumer of gaming product, video entertainment and an adult I have come to the conclusion through many years of observation that there is quite enough violence. while I apreciate that other countries have r+ ratings I am quite happy to have MA as the top in australia because I want to push back at the makers of gore and say, I find your product should have no place in society. you can have your artistic expression but can you let go of the need to out do every thing on gore and sensationalsim and make it good to watch or play.

it's what living in a capitalist society does for us, money talks.

 

I know i'm saying this in the wrong community but do we really need to up the standards?

what makes the MA standard? what makes the R Standard?

See the thing is, I agree with your sentiments. There is quite a lot of violence in video games, but I feel we need to support an R18 video classification because a lot of the existing things on the market need to be rated above the MA15+ certification that they already have. Parents and society on a whole tend to have a very lax attitude toward 15+ ratings because they went to 15+ movies when they were kids or they are buying just a game. But you put an R18+ stamp on the box and people make a connection to the current stock of R18+ soft porn or graphic violence that they wouldn't let kids watch at all.

 

The point you really have to think about is that R18+ carries with it an association of needing to be an adult to view the content. The problem with the current system is that what we would classify as R18+ material is being re-badged as MA15+ and being sold to kids.

 

Edit --> grammar

Edited by bastard

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