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LogicprObe

For those who think MP3 is great.

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Something I find very interesting, is that here we are on a tech site devoted to squeezing every bit of performance out of our computers....yet very few want to get more than very little from there audio :P

 

Thank goodness we have dedicated audio sites elsewhere...

 

;)

Hmm, I think this is because audio quality is not a REQUIRED part of IT.

 

Graphics for games are needed.

 

Processing power, for.... processing.... is needed.

 

Connectivity, is needed.

 

Audio? Usually if its easily distinguishable, its good enough.

 

As someone whos hearing greatly improved when my eyes started to fuck up, as said earlier, I can hear the difference (please note, DIFFERENCE, not IMPROVEMENT) is it better? probably, but not amazingly so. If I go into a propper home theatre setup (eg, at the local Todds showroom) and play MP3s, Im hearing parts of the music i never knew existed thanks to my budget of less than 10k. This is awesome. Am I hearing artefacts? nope.

 

In all honesty I think a lot of what we 'miss' with MP3s and other compressed audio is so subtle we would need the $10k speakers, or, more likely, to have the volume at stupid levels to hear the 'ding' of a triangle we otherwise wouldnt even notice (as an example). Hell, it took me months of DJ practice before i learned to listen to the 'background' of a song, something the HUGE majority of people will never learn to do, this is where a lot of the loss is.

 

at 320kbps, using a developed encoder such as LAME, artefacts are close to impossible to isolate, and as someone who loves his audio (but is on a budget), no matter how hard I try to get better than average audio gear, I still dont hear 'the most' of what mp3 has to offer. Store setups still bring out quality im not achieving, as such, I'll never be comfortable spending thousands on audio, another few hundred on additional storage, then another couple of thousand replacing my music collection with 'lossless' alternatives. we're probably talking a good $15k worth of expenditure. I dont see this happening, so as much as FLAC or a better codec (ogg or ALC) would be nice, I feel its highly unneeded. We're a quantity not quality society, and those few that seek quality over quantity will always find it hard because its just not out there anymore.

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Sorry mate, I was only thinking of the mind set...

 

I'm not criticising with this point either, just an observation ;)

 

Edit: Oh! what quality is not out there?

 

Quality equipment? there is plenty out there.

 

Quality recordings? They are out there, just not in the quantity as there used to be, and a good set-up will make average recordings sound good and good recordings sound great. Bad recordings will be bad no matter :P

 

BTW, I'm on a very limited income, that means very tight budget. There are cheap ways to get a very good resolving set-up, that DAC I posted about that cost me under $350 to put together will compete very well against off the shelf DACs costing $1500 to $2000.

 

One more thing ;)

There are plenty of 10k+ stereo speakers on the market that would not show things as well as a 3k pair that I know of, and there are systems worth 10k that will show more than a lot of 30k+ systems, It's not as easy as throwing cash at a salesman.

Edited by datafast69

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i cant speak for shitepods, but my mp3 player plays 24/48 just fine

"Shitepods" can play 24/48 just fine too. What do you dislike about them?

 

meh. you really dont want to know :P

 

apart from the fact that i kind of have it in for Apple in general (yeah, i am one of those guys), its mostly due to me still resenting the way they entered the market late (by a good couple of years) and through clever (if not machiavellian) entrepreneurship managed to unmeritoriously capture the imagination of ill-informed consumers everywhere with their stupid inferior product (then at least) to the point of earmarking every stupid noob and his dog with stupid white earbuds whilst foisting a stupid new self-aggrandising synonym for "mp3 player" onto the world and generally doing Satan's bidding in his ceaseless war on hi-fidelity sound.

 

dont get me wrong, i know quite a few people who i respect for having more audio knowledge and better ears than myself, who own and love them. but i couldnt bear to own one. in fact, if i won one in a competition or something i would have great trouble giving it away to anyone i actually like.

Edited by @~thehung

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I dislike iPods because they're trying to do too much with them, despite having flaws in the basics principles of a music player. They're yet to support open source file formats, the battery life is quite lacklustre, and they tend to have a small life expectancy. I also hate iTunes on Windows, it's as if the programmers got lazy and ported it in the worst way possible. They add silly things such as cameras (because no one carries a camera phone with them) instead of focusing on the things that matter. Heck, they haven't even put FM radio in them, which is quite sad.

 

That being said, I can understand why the general public likes them. They're pretty and they output music. But when you see people 'upgrading' every 12 months because 'my other one broke', it makes me cringe. There's something seriously wrong if this is the case. I know quite a few people that have had this happen, so I can only assume this is commonplace.

 

On the other hand, I can get a Cowon D2 which does everything I need at a good price. They have a good reliability track record, the battery lasts me over 50 hours on a single charge, it supports several formats including FLAC, APE, and OGG, and it can play/record radio. Sure, it's not as pretty or compact as the iPod range, but it's not too shabby either. Both come with shit headphones, but I prefer it that way to keep production costs down so I can buy a decent pair. If Apple would do the same (which let's face it, they won't) I'd be happy to get an iPod. As long as iTunes DIAF.

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Why would Apple want to support open source file formats when they have their own variants of them (AAC and ALAC) ?

 

P.S. The current Nano has an FM radio.

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apart from the fact that i kind of have it in for Apple in general (yeah, i am one of those guys), its mostly due to me still resenting the way they entered the market late (by a good couple of years) and through clever (if not machiavellian) entrepreneurship managed to unmeritoriously capture the imagination of ill-informed consumers everywhere with their stupid inferior product (then at least) to the point of earmarking every stupid noob and his dog with stupid white earbuds whilst foisting a stupid new self-aggrandising synonym for "mp3 player" onto the world and generally doing Satan's bidding in his ceaseless war on hi-fidelity sound.

See, I can get disliking them because of some of Apple's shadier business practices, but most of that is just good business practice. These days, quality is pretty top notch too provided you don't use the bundled ear-phones (as I think you realise).

 

Tall Poppy Syndrome, perhaps?

 

I dislike iPods because they're trying to do too much with them

That seems like an odd reason. I know you put this together with music player ability, but on its own the features that Apple has added to its iPod line have made it a much more functional and useful device in general, and I can't see that it's ever been at the expense of its ability to play music.

 

They're yet to support open source file formats, the battery life is quite lacklustre, and they tend to have a small life expectancy.

The "other formats" thing is damn annoying, but part and parcel of doing business with Apple -- or, indeed, and big-name manufacturer with dreams of content distribution (namely Microsoft and Sony). Battery life is good though, given that what reduction there is is a trade-off for size, and life expectancy is fine in my experience. I've got an old ipod that must be going on 5 years, and it still works just dandy (although, of course, the battery is shot and the irreplaceable battery crap -- which is certainly a genuine and legitimate annoyance -- makes it pretty much unusable in a practical manner).

 

I also hate iTunes on Windows, it's as if the programmers got lazy and ported it in the worst way possible.

See, I hear this a lot. I've never really had a problem with the Windows version of iTunes, although admittedly I don't really use my PC for playing music.

 

They add silly things such as cameras (because no one carries a camera phone with them) instead of focusing on the things that matter. Heck, they haven't even put FM radio in them, which is quite sad.

Again, something that I hear a lot. I have no interest in an FM radio, which would just add to the bulk of the device. For those who do, you can purchase an add-on and still have all your FM radio controls right there on your iPod. Seems like a fair enough (if expensive) compromise to me. Can't see much point for the camera, but some people seem to like the idea. What other features is it missing?

 

when you see people 'upgrading' every 12 months because 'my other one broke', it makes me cringe. There's something seriously wrong if this is the case. I know quite a few people that have had this happen, so I can only assume this is commonplace.

I know a few people with iPods, and none of theirs has broken. Some have been around for years, and used quite frequently.

 

On the other hand, I can get a Cowon D2 which does everything I need at a good price. They have a good reliability track record, the battery lasts me over 50 hours on a single charge, it supports several formats including FLAC, APE, and OGG, and it can play/record radio. Sure, it's not as pretty or compact as the iPod range, but it's not too shabby either. Both come with shit headphones, but I prefer it that way to keep production costs down so I can buy a decent pair. If Apple would do the same (which let's face it, they won't) I'd be happy to get an iPod. As long as iTunes DIAF.

Fair enough.

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I dislike iPods because they're trying to do too much with them

That seems like an odd reason. I know you put this together with music player ability, but on its own the features that Apple has added to its iPod line have made it a much more functional and useful device in general, and I can't see that it's ever been at the expense of its ability to play music.

 

For sure. I just dislike the fact that they're happy to add a tonne of bells and whistles, and yet there's other more important factors which are yet to be attended to. Battery life is a big one, as is the range of file formats. I guess what I'm saying is I prefer Portable Media Players (PMPs) that do their core purpose very well. But that's just my opinion, of course.

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yeah, 'inferiority' has many aspects Cyb3r and youve just covered a few of the main ones. iTunes especially. separate to my bad attitude and idiosyncratic preferences here, iTunes really is an unconscionably bloated and unaccommodating middleman.

 

i usually carry around a tiny little microUSB-to-USB adapter that fits in the palm of my hand. with that i can transfer anything to and from my mp3 player, to and from any Mac/PC, plus its useful for several other devices.

 

if i only i had a dollar for every time i couldnt get/give this or that file from/to somebody's shitepod because they don't have their [stupid] proprietary cable with them AND/OR the computer we would need doesnt have [stupid] iTunes installed. talk about moving backwards! i always thought technology was meant to be utilitarian LOL.

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You certainly don't need iTunes installed to use an iPod as a mass storage device.

I used (and still use) my old 60GB iPod as a mass storage device, and was one of the main reasons why I got it. I was damn pissed off that disk mode was removed from the iTouch/iPhone line. Still, that's the price of moving everything to the cloud I suppose. The upside is that, with a simple little app installed and so long as I'm in range of a 3g/wifi network, I can stream any photo I've ever taken to my device and then email it off to anyone around the world. Get something like MobileMe, and your options become much, much wider.

 

Despite that though, yeah, I'd still much rather an easy disk mode.

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I was damn pissed off that disk mode was removed from the iTouch/iPhone line.

There's an app for jailbroken iPhones that makes it sorta behave like a USB Mass Storage device. http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=5437

 

To access the iPhone's actual filesystem, there are programs like DiskAid. http://www.digidna.net/diskaid/

 

An app to combine the functionality of the two is probably not too far off, if it doesn't already exist!

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I was damn pissed off that disk mode was removed from the iTouch/iPhone line.

There's an app for jailbroken iPhones that makes it sorta behave like a USB Mass Storage device. http://www.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=5437

 

To access the iPhone's actual filesystem, there are programs like DiskAid. http://www.digidna.net/diskaid/

 

An app to combine the functionality of the two is probably not too far off, if it doesn't already exist!

 

Shouldn't need to do it.

 

I recently had to sit through a 4 hour Apple propaganda drive for work as we are an apple reseller.

 

The Apple nazi told me that Apple iPods now took up 80% of the mp3 market.

He then went to say 80% of people chose to use iTunes over other computer audio players.... thats maybe because you cant bloody use any other program with a dam ipod/iphone assholes!!!!

 

Anyway enough of the raging, I could happily go on all day but this is about sound quality.

 

Personally I don't mind mp3s because all my audio equipment is currently crap. Truth is the majority of people are in the same boat. As long as you can hear the beat and make out the lyrics your usually good to go.

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The Apple nazi told me that Apple iPods now took up 80% of the mp3 market.

Reductio ad Hitlerum much?

 

He then went to say 80% of people chose to use iTunes over other computer audio players.... thats maybe because you cant bloody use any other program with a dam ipod/iphone assholes!!!!

People use iPods without ever touching iTunes (Sharepod, Winamp, and so on).

 

People use iTunes without owning iPods (since ITMS is DRM free now).

 

Not liking a brand is one thing, but some of you lot take it way too far.

 

Yes, back to sound quality.

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I can't stand the retards who just have to play sound engineer and offer up MP3s, only to find that they've changed the original recording sound.

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I can't stand the retards who just have to play sound engineer and offer up MP3s, only to find that they've changed the original recording sound.

ive read this a number of times but cant figure out what you are getting at. who?

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They usually up the bass, or try and "improve" the sound quality. Downloaded some metal tracks once and the twit up'd the treble so you could "hear the guitars more clearer ...."

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All that kind of manipulation leads to smearing of the whole bloody track :(

 

So you end up with other instruments that should be audible, that aren't...

 

Butchery!

 

:P

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whilst i can see why that would be annoying, pandemonium, if you are talking about illegal file sharing, there are many here who would lack sympathy.

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