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Aki54

GT5 delayed yet again.

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Uncharted 2 has won dozens of GOTY awards, is one of the most highly reviewed and praised games of this generation, is the benchmark of quality on the PS3 and considered a must play has sold roughly 1.5 million copies. Probably not enough for it to break even.

A quick look around at some sources seems to suggest that about $20m (maybe $30m) was spent on Uncharted 2...

http://www.vg247.com/2009/02/04/uncharted-...ion-says-wells/

 

if it sold 1.5 million copies in the US, isn't that $90m USD at $60USD/copy? Even if the numbers aren't as straight forward as that, I seriously doubt you need to worry about Uncharted 2 having broken even. It would have done that easily, and then some.

 

The fact that Halo games print money like no tomorrow doesn't mean that other lesser selling games, especially million+ sellers, aren't also profitable.

 

 

As for GT5, it's getting pretty funny. I don't do racing games anyway personally but from a development perspective it's crazy to see another delay this late in the game. And after a "demo" (that came after a "prologue") no less. Oh well.

 

I don't buy a game that has sold for more than this and that.

 

Should buy the game for the story and overall game, Halo was not my cup of tea in fact, over rated.

 

 

For once I agree with you (on the point of Halo, fun games, but rather overrated) I think the difference with Halo is though, people love it because there is so much lore behind it now. Same reason why Lord of the Rings Online has a more mature player base than the likes of wow.

 

So what part of the Gran Turismo story do you like index?

 

The part where, when nearing completion, it was delayed again. Or that little bit where it was....delayed again?

 

I'm dying to hear.

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I don't think 1.5 * 60 dollars is the answer, manufacturing, tax and then the middleman would take a chunk out of that money. I think someone said on another forum that's it's only made it into the black but I have no idea if that's verified at all, the game industry seems to be tight lipped about finances compared to the movie industry.

Yeah I know there are other costs involved and that you can't just crunch the numbers in a straight way like that, but if 2.6+ million copies sold worldworld was not going to turn a profit I doubt the project would have been greenlit at all. It's a huge number, and it'll still keep growing slowly.

 

The staggering sales of certain games this gen seems to have created a misconception that to only have a couple million sold is somehow a commercial failure.

 

I believe it only sold 1.4 million, uncharted 1 sold 2.6 million. 20 million was the development cost but the rumored 30 million is possible taking into consideration extraneous costs like advertising. Apparently that's alot of money to spend on a video game. 1 million use to be the milestone but the cost of making a video keeps getting higher and higher.

 

November could be a reason why it didn't sell as well, Modern Warfare 2 would have been eating at the audience I guess, not enough to fail uncharted but maybe enough to keep it's sales down.

Edited by King_TriTAN

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2.6 according to vgchartz. Hard to know the real number but well above 1.4, for sure... $20m is high though yeah.

 

On the topic of GT5 though - I think it's running into the vicinity of $60m, apparently ranking as the most expensive videogame in history, by a wide margin. Whether or not they break even on that one is another story entirely. I'm not that sure there are enough PS3s around yet to support the sales they'd need, although you'd think there is some kind of plan...

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Maybe they'll bundle the game with the PS3 slim. Saturate the market with the PS3 console by enticing new console owners with a racing game with a big name. Maybe that's their plan now...

Edited by morris

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2.6 according to vgchartz. Hard to know the real number but well above 1.4, for sure... $20m is high though yeah.

 

On the topic of GT5 though - I think it's running into the vicinity of $60m, apparently ranking as the most expensive videogame in history, by a wide margin. Whether or not they break even on that one is another story entirely. I'm not that sure there are enough PS3s around yet to support the sales they'd need, although you'd think there is some kind of plan...

I don't understand why I'm getting conflicting sales reports but I'm using data reported from NPD and not VGchartz, I have no idea which is right.

http://www.criticalgamer.co.uk/2009/12/14/...les-lacklustre/

 

From what I know the most exspensive video game in history was GTA 1V

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/181688...expensive-game/

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I don't understand why I'm getting conflicting sales reports but I'm using data reported from NPD and not VGchartz, I have no idea which is right.

http://www.criticalgamer.co.uk/2009/12/14/...les-lacklustre/

 

From what I know the most exspensive video game in history was GTA 1V

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/181688...expensive-game/

Well, who the fuck knows...it did nearly 600,000 in October alone according to NPD. VGchartz are often wrong in preliminary numbers but then adjust as sources come together. They currently have Uncharted 2 at 1.3 million in North America (the only region covered by NPD), 1.23 million in "others" (mainly being Europe), and 0.11 in Japan.

 

Worldwide sales are nearly impossible to get an exact figure on though.

 

edit: oh and I stand corrected RE GTA4. $100m is just insanity.

Edited by xfu

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I don't understand why I'm getting conflicting sales reports but I'm using data reported from NPD and not VGchartz, I have no idea which is right.

http://www.criticalgamer.co.uk/2009/12/14/...les-lacklustre/

 

From what I know the most exspensive video game in history was GTA 1V

http://www.gamepro.com/article/news/181688...expensive-game/

Well, who the fuck knows...it did nearly 600,000 in October alone according to NPD. VGchartz are often wrong in preliminary numbers but then adjust as sources come together. They currently have Uncharted 2 at 1.3 million in North America (the only region covered by NPD), 1.23 million in "others" (mainly being Europe), and 0.11 in Japan.

 

Worldwide sales are nearly impossible to get an exact figure on though.

 

edit: oh and I stand corrected RE GTA4. $100m is just insanity.

 

Actually the NPD states 950, 000 copies sold in North America so far, when they include world wide figures they don't elaborate on what countries they have included, that maybe cause of the discrepancy.

 

GTA IV had a great world shame about the gameplay.

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Uncharted 2 has won dozens of GOTY awards, is one of the most highly reviewed and praised games of this generation, is the benchmark of quality on the PS3 and considered a must play has sold roughly 1.5 million copies. Probably not enough for it to break even.

A quick look around at some sources seems to suggest that about $20m (maybe $30m) was spent on Uncharted 2...

http://www.vg247.com/2009/02/04/uncharted-...ion-says-wells/

 

if it sold 1.5 million copies in the US, isn't that $90m USD at $60USD/copy? Even if the numbers aren't as straight forward as that, I seriously doubt you need to worry about Uncharted 2 having broken even. It would have done that easily, and then some.

 

The fact that Halo games print money like no tomorrow doesn't mean that other lesser selling games, especially million+ sellers, aren't also profitable.

 

 

As for GT5, it's getting pretty funny. I don't do racing games anyway personally but from a development perspective it's crazy to see another delay this late in the game. And after a "demo" (that came after a "prologue") no less. Oh well.

 

I don't buy a game that has sold for more than this and that.

 

Should buy the game for the story and overall game, Halo was not my cup of tea in fact, over rated.

 

 

For once I agree with you (on the point of Halo, fun games, but rather overrated) I think the difference with Halo is though, people love it because there is so much lore behind it now. Same reason why Lord of the Rings Online has a more mature player base than the likes of wow.

 

So what part of the Gran Turismo story do you like index?

 

The part where, when nearing completion, it was delayed again. Or that little bit where it was....delayed again?

 

I'm dying to hear.

 

I just like to race and have a good time and its been a long time since I got my hands on some GT.

 

Halo has a fun concept, cool weapons and has potential of being a hardcore movie if one was made. I just find Halo to be over rated by story and how they over hype the Halo games when in fact feel and play as a standard FPS is/ or should.

 

I don't think your dying to hear otherwise you would not be typing :P jks.

 

Look, the game is delayed again after what 3 - 4 years of the original release date, I just think Poly want to ensure and create one of the most realistic driving simulators of all time that would in fact try to out do anything its competition such as Forza does. I just think we should rather appreciate what poly are trying to do.

 

After all, you would want to appreciate the game being so much realistic after all and I would rather wait until they think its okay to release the title, I just call it smart thinking and if they want to fix all the bugs and flaws then yeah, you would wait no?

Edited by index680i

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GT is the benchmark, I'm sure no matter when it's released, people will buy it.

 

If it's good, more people will buy it.

 

I like GT more than any racing sim, many other people still feel that way.

 

In closing, I doubt they will have any breaking even or any other financial worries.

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Look, the game is delayed again after what 3 - 4 years of the original release date, I just think Poly want to ensure and create one of the most realistic driving simulators of all time that would in fact try to out do anything its competition such as Forza does. I just think we should rather appreciate what poly are trying to do.

No one delays a game by such a long time (especially such a high profile one) unless it has significant problems.

 

By your reasoning, I appreciate everything 3D Realms were doing by making sure Duke Nukem Forever was the best possible FPS ever created.

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GT is the benchmark, I'm sure no matter when it's released, people will buy it.

 

Only full games get to be benchmarks. Unless you think a demo is somehow the high water mark of sim racing.

 

Forza 3 is the benchmark. GT4 was better than Forza 1, but it has been passed long ago by F2, and F3 is a masterclass in sim racing.

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Yes I was talking about previous GT, I've had a good go of the prologue of GT5 and I like it, but as you say...

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GT is the benchmark, I'm sure no matter when it's released, people will buy it.

 

Only full games get to be benchmarks. Unless you think a demo is somehow the high water mark of sim racing.

 

Forza 3 is the benchmark. GT4 was better than Forza 1, but it has been passed long ago by F2, and F3 is a masterclass in sim racing.

 

End, ill admit I can't pick out the flaws of Forza 3 becuase I simply don't own the game but I can say from people who own the game let alone friends of mine who own Forza 3 say its easily flawed and some say over hyped from the flaws they found.

 

Like Forza 3 is the best racing sim 'now' until GT5 gets released because I can just see poly doing something even better than the Forza company, if I am correct they are now going back and re doing or making one of the most realistic damage system and this could be apart of the delay.

 

I rather see something extremely spectacular and all time best ever come out, even if I have to wait for a delay, I rather pick up a title that has no flaws (Sadly all games have them and yes I know GT5 will have very few) but even then.... We have to wait and see.

Edited by index680i

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Well then you can't know it will have very few :P

 

You can only assume based on their previous product, which is usually good.

 

Only gripe I had was the upgrade system was sooooo stupid "Stage 2 gearbox, add 600hp!"

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GT is the benchmark, I'm sure no matter when it's released, people will buy it.

 

Only full games get to be benchmarks. Unless you think a demo is somehow the high water mark of sim racing.

 

Forza 3 is the benchmark. GT4 was better than Forza 1, but it has been passed long ago by F2, and F3 is a masterclass in sim racing.

 

End, ill admit I can't pick out the flaws of Forza 3 becuase I simply don't own the game but I can say from people who own the game let alone friends of mine who own Forza 3 say its easily flawed and some say over hyped from the flaws they found.

 

Like Forza 3 is the best racing sim 'now' until GT5 gets released because I can just see poly doing something even better than the Forza company, if I am correct they are now going back and re doing or making one of the most realistic damage system and this could be apart of the delay.

 

I rather see something extremely spectacular and all time best ever come out, even if I have to wait for a delay, I rather pick up a title that has no flaws (Sadly all games have them and yes I know GT5 will have very few) but even then.... We have to wait and see.

 

I'm going to be honest, this is one of the poorest, most sycophantic and willfully ignorant things you've ever written index. You've never played Forza but you take as gospel it's flawed because that's what you were told. Obviously it's flawed, all games are but you're trying to make it sound like it's broken. Maybe experience it for yourself and your opinion might be worth more than piss in a boot. They're redoing the damage model in GT5 "If I am correct." No you're not. It has already been stated the only known change at this point is that they're adding 3D. Anything else is pure speculation.

 

I haven't played Forza, I haven't played GT5 prologue or the recent demo. I can't speak to the quality of either product, but the general rule of thumb in console game development is anything that takes longer than 2 -3 years to develop and publish is because it has serious, serious problems. So maybe some healthy skepticism about the quality of GT5 is warranted. I know logical and objective discussion isn't your strong point index, but I personally would really appreciate it if you'd at least try sometimes, for my sanity please.

 

Edit: Formatting/Speeleng.

Edited by Aki54

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GT is the benchmark, I'm sure no matter when it's released, people will buy it.

 

Only full games get to be benchmarks. Unless you think a demo is somehow the high water mark of sim racing.

 

Forza 3 is the benchmark. GT4 was better than Forza 1, but it has been passed long ago by F2, and F3 is a masterclass in sim racing.

 

End, ill admit I can't pick out the flaws of Forza 3 becuase I simply don't own the game but I can say from people who own the game let alone friends of mine who own Forza 3 say its easily flawed and some say over hyped from the flaws they found.

 

Like Forza 3 is the best racing sim 'now' until GT5 gets released because I can just see poly doing something even better than the Forza company, if I am correct they are now going back and re doing or making one of the most realistic damage system and this could be apart of the delay.

 

I rather see something extremely spectacular and all time best ever come out, even if I have to wait for a delay, I rather pick up a title that has no flaws (Sadly all games have them and yes I know GT5 will have very few) but even then.... We have to wait and see.

 

I'm going to be honest, this is one of the poorest, most sycophantic and willfully ignorant things you've ever written index. You've never played Forza but you take as gospel it's flawed because that's what you were told. Obviously it's flawed, all games are but you're trying to make it sound like it's broken. Maybe experience it for yourself and your opinion might be worth more than piss in a boot. They're redoing the damage model in GT5 "If I am correct." No you're not. It has already been stated the only known change at this point is that they're adding 3D. Anything else is pure speculation.

 

I haven't played Forza, I haven't played GT5 prologue or the recent demo. I can't speak to the quality of either product, but the general rule of thumb in console game development is anything that takes longer than 2 -3 years to develop and publish is because it has serious, serious problems. So maybe some healthy skepticism about the quality of GT5 is warranted. I know logical and objective discussion isn't your strong point index, but I personally would really appreciate it if you'd at least try sometimes, for my sanity please.

 

Edit: Formatting/Speeleng.

 

See I have played Forza 2.

 

And see what I mean? I type something negative about Forza 3 and yet you jump to the point of how stupid my posts are when in fact, its factual that Forza 3 does have major flaws and to 'some' to over hyped to what its meant to be.

 

*Edit.

 

I do understand I might not have played Forza 3 but I buy a game based on peoples opinions ;)

Edited by index680i

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See I have played Forza 2.

 

And see what I mean? I type something negative about Forza 3 and yet you jump to the point of how stupid my posts are when in fact, its factual that Forza 3 does have major flaws and to 'some' to over hyped to what its meant to be.

 

*Edit.

 

I do understand I might not have played Forza 3 but I buy a game based on peoples opinions ;)

Then please tell us what these flaws are.

 

There's no problem with getting opinions from others. As long as it's backed up by fact.

 

 

For example: If I was to say "There's some serious flaws in the story line of Avatar. I haven't seen it, but a few of my friends told me"

I have my friends opinions, but no facts to back it up with. In this case I was better off not saying anything at all because so far it's all speculation to me.

 

 

So far I haven't seen or heard about many flaws in Forza 3. Nothing huge anyway. All response I've seen has been rather positive.

EDIT: I buy games based on peoples opinions too (reviews, word of mouth from people that have already played etc.) but I don't just ask if it's good or bad. I ask for reasons too.

Edited by morris

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See I have played Forza 2.

 

And see what I mean? I type something negative about Forza 3 and yet you jump to the point of how stupid my posts are when in fact, its factual that Forza 3 does have major flaws and to 'some' to over hyped to what its meant to be.

 

*Edit.

 

I do understand I might not have played Forza 3 but I buy a game based on peoples opinions ;)

Then please tell us what these flaws are.

 

There's no problem with getting opinions from others. As long as it's backed up by fact.

 

 

For example: If I was to say "There's some serious flaws in the story line of Avatar. I haven't seen it, but a few of my friends told me"

I have my friends opinions, but no facts to back it up with. In this case I was better off not saying anything at all because so far it's all speculation to me.

 

 

So far I haven't seen or heard about many flaws in Forza 3. Nothing huge anyway. All response I've seen has been rather positive.

EDIT: I buy games based on peoples opinions too (reviews, word of mouth from people that have already played etc.) but I don't just ask if it's good or bad. I ask for reasons too.

 

Well the crash system for example, I was told by everyone it is like one of the most realistic yet I see some pretty buggy animations.

 

AI, Was told the AI is meant to be very smart thinking when in fact I see (On vids by the way) I see some stupid AI racing in the game.

 

Graphics, looked great at E3 and I swear I have seen better graphics man and take a look at what GT5 already looks like.

 

Perhaps I am going to try it and probably will change my statements a bit so ill re post on Forza 3 until I tried it :)

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I've played Forza 3. I've also played the GT5 demos. I've also played pretty much every major racing sim released since GT1. Forza 3 is the best so far. Yes, it has areas for improvement, but where it counts - i.e. the sensation of recreating the feel of a driving a car around a circuit and creating a compelling reason to do so - Forza 3 gets it the most right.

 

And for someone to be citing GT's AI as a club with which to beat Forza... well, you'd have to be high. Every release of GT has been accompanied with the claim 'oh, the AI will be much better this time' and each time it's like scalextric racing.

 

F3 hasn't got the best physics, or the most cars or the best damage model, but it does manage to do each of those things to such a high degree in a single package, and then add some brilliant multiplayer and community features, elevating it to the top. If Simbin were ever to slap together a game with 100 tracks and 400 cars, F3 might have a very scary rival. In the meantime, it's the top of the pile. No ifs or buts.

 

I'd love for GT5 to actually be better, but only a fool would claim that it will be with any certainty, especially given Polyphony's track record of disappointment. GT is a series that has gotten worse since GT2, without fail. As much as I admire Kazanori Yamauchi, I get the sense that he doesn't play other sims. Maybe, for the first time, a rival sim has him rattled enough that he's concerned about his product. Whilst that's a good sign, it doesn't bode well for a game that is started to sound like a cobbled together mess. Feature creep may well mean that whilst GT5 has it all, none of it will be any good... apart from its graphics.

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Well this thread is fucked....I'll say it again Index, you do the SDF a dishonour and that is a hard thing to do.

 

GT5 will be amazing, we all know that, but it has taken far too fucking long to make.

 

Still gunna sell like hotcakes though, and still going to make my gf leave me

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Well the crash system for example, I was told by everyone it is like one of the most realistic yet I see some pretty buggy animations.

 

I don't think it was ever lauded as the most realistic. Maybe the most realistic for it's type of game (i.e. GT clone), a genre which, up until now, has had piss poor damage. DIRT 2 and Richard Burns Rally probably share the honour of most realistic damage.

 

 

AI, Was told the AI is meant to be very smart thinking when in fact I see (On vids by the way) I see some stupid AI racing in the game.

 

Yeah, videos are exactly the same as playing the game. You do know there are three difficulty settings, right?

 

 

Graphics, looked great at E3 and I swear I have seen better graphics man and take a look at what GT5 already looks like.

GT5 is prettier. That is true enough. F3 looks good, however, and maintains 60fps. Plus all 400 car interiors are modelled.

 

 

Perhaps I am going to try it and probably will change my statements a bit so ill re post on Forza 3 until I tried it :)

 

That would be what any person with half a brain might do.

Edited by The End

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