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darklife41

Good sounding & large capacity MP3 players?

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But yes, everything goes through the best car amp in the world, the Burr Brown. :-)

Burr Brown DACs, sure, but I'm guessing that the deficiencies of the analogue stage do a good job of hiding any benefit.

 

Not to mention that this is car audio, just about the least ideal audio there is.

And as usual your remarks have absolutely nothing to do with the thread. No idea what point you're trying to make, and honestly I don't care.
I'm trying to warn you of being wary of having too much faith in the Burr Brown (or, more correctly, Texas Instruments) DACs when the analogue section of the head unit might mask the benefits of having high end DACs.

 

Granted, I do feel a small amount of (often justifiable) elitism over car audio - but my point still stands.

 

Rob.

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I would like to point out that USB drives can be formatted as FAT32 in capacities higher than 4gb. Or 32gb. Or 128gb.

 

 

 

(FAT 16 has the 4gb partition size limit, not FAT32)

 

 

 

The only 4GB limit that FAT32 has is in file size, not partition size.

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I don't think I specified whether the 4GB limitation on FAT32 was for partition size or file size, but yes that's correct (it is file size).

 

The point is that all MP3 players using the USB on these HUs need to be FAT32, and T-dog is correct that they have to be setup in certain ways for each device. I'm assuming it has to do with the fact that they use FAT32, but it wouldn't be the first time I was wrong either. :-)

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Actually, most amps distort more at lower output than at their rated output.

 

 

 

But car amps are all about power. More volume the better.

 

 

 

 

How many car audio competitions are about the quality of music, rather than actual volume?

 

 

You don't have anyone winning comps with an output of 95db, do you? ;)

Generally the car comps are split up into SQ or SPL, so you're wrong at that point at least.

 

Making a car go loud is a lot easier than getting it to sound nice...

 

 

 

I don't have much I can offer to say to the OP, however I'm running an ipod through my system in my car. I'm using an Eclipse headunit I chose specifically which bypasses the ipod's DAC (essentially it just uses the ipod as a storage medium then, but keeps the file structure intact as well).

 

I'm then running it through a Tru Tech amp to a set of Focal Utopias for the front stage :)

 

What is your setup out of curiosity?

Edited by Frizzl

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Are you trying to tell me you have WAV/FLAC files bigger than 4GB?

Dude, honestly I'm afraid to say a thing to you as so far you've twisted everything I've said into something I didn't say. :-)

 

I don't know how to be any more clear. I said: "FAT32 has a 4GB limit which needs to be overcome", which I'm assuming (rightly or wrongly) somehow ties into the reason behind these HU's using strange file structures with USB devices. I didn't say a thing about the 4GB limit being for partitions, but for whatever reason you wrongly assumed that was what I meant? Then I was just making it clear that I never said the limit was on partition size, because I didn't. Now, you think somehow that means I'm saying that I have 4GB files? Honestly, I think you're reading more into these posts than was ever intended.

 

I'm not trying to tell anyone anything, other than:

 

The point is that all MP3 players using the USB on these HUs need to be FAT32, and T-dog is correct that they have to be setup in certain ways for each device.

If you don't believe it, look it up for yourself. I've done some pretty extensive research on the Alpine HU's with USB lately. They can have up to 100 folders/files on the root, 100 folders/files in those, and 100 folders/files in those. That comes out to a possible total of 10,000 folders/files. If I were sorting by artists (which is how I usually sort), I'd have well over 100 folders on the root, so I'd have to be more creative about how to sort the folders. Some users post that they can see more than 100, but everything after the first 100 is greyed out (inaccessible). Some users post that they can only see the first 100 folders/files. Kenwoods also have limits on the folders/files, but I believe they are slightly different (most of my research was on Alpines as that's the only HU I'm interested in now).

 

Whatever the reason behind these strange HU limitations, its too bad that they exist as it detracts from the usefulness of the USB device for storage. It can still be done, just takes a bit more thought/work on how to use the folders. :-)

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I don't know how to be any more clear. I said: "FAT32 has a 4GB limit which needs to be overcome

Are you trying to tell me you have WAV/FLAC files bigger than 4GB?

darklife41: Do you have any WAV/FLAC files larger than 4GB? If not then you don't have any 4GB limit that needs to be overcome.

 

Rob.

Edited by robzy

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I don't have much I can offer to say to the OP, however I'm running an ipod through my system in my car. I'm using an Eclipse headunit I chose specifically which bypasses the ipod's DAC (essentially it just uses the ipod as a storage medium then, but keeps the file structure intact as well).

 

I'm then running it through a Tru Tech amp to a set of Focal Utopias for the front stage :)

 

What is your setup out of curiosity?

The trick may well be to do as you are, and avoid the iPod's DAC. I really don't know, and I doubt my Alpine has the ability to bypass anything. I'm happy with using anything as a storage device, I just don't want it to ruin the sound in the process. Since the CD player and Creative sounded so much better than the iPod, I think the iPod DAC has to be the weak link. Hell, even the FM radio sounds significantly better than these iPods on my system. So your setup may be a touch of brilliance. Well done. :-)

 

I've been intentionally avoiding listing my system, because I don't want to read someone go on about how its shit.... blah blah blah. I know its a dinosaur compared to newer systems, but I also know I'm pretty fussy about my tunes quality and really like this system (liked it much more when the Creative was working tho lol). Its all about personal preference. Some people like the sound of 15" subs. I prefer tight bass and clear highs and midrange, more like being there (as that's what I'm used to). Its easy to find one or the other (clarity or tight bass), but took a lot of experimenting to find the balance I was after. The last thing I want to do is start over. :-)

 

My main cage in Australia is a '95 Jeep Cherokee Limited, that we bought used here in '2002. (Usually I'm on a BMW motorcycle though.) Only 70k on the Jeep at the time and well taken care of, so I didn't want to cut holes in my leather interior which made speaker options pretty limited. As I mentioned, I pulled the amp and speakers out of a Jeep I had in the USA. But I sold that with the speakers and HU (all Alpine). As much as I really didn't like the idea of Eclipse anything (had never heard of them at the time), I have to say they that I've been very happy with the results.

 

So I have an Alpine CDA-9827 with 4 x Eclipse speakers (5 1/4" 3-way, SE8353). The speakers just run through the HU (which I was surprised to see is only 4 x 18Wrms, 50w x 4 total output). They provide the highs and midrange with no distortion and quite clear (I like to hear whether a drummer is using Zildjian or Paiste cymbals). My MTX MXA4001 (class D monoblock) amp is mounted on the subs box, attached to a HU pre-out, and powers 2 x 10" MTX speakers @ 2 x 200w 2ohms in the same vented box (not sure of the model numbers, but I think Thunder 5500s - I have 4 of them, 2 now sitting in a box in the shed). I gave my son a 750w Kenwood amp as the MTX is much better sounding (in my opinion, maybe just a better match for the MTX speakers though). Prior to the Kenwood I had a 1000w Sony, that kept frying every other day (Sony amps = junk, went through 3 different amps in a month). One thing I've learned the hard way is that total RMS wattage has little to do with total volume, until a point at which I don't care to listen anyway.

 

There's better sound around, but considering that I have under $1000 total stuck into this system, and its survived many years of off road driving, I'm a happy camper. :-)

 

Every time I think I'm ready to get out the credit card, the wife looks into another option. Its now down to a Cowon O2 32GB with additional 32GB SDHC, or a Vosonic (several models still being considered).

 

But I read on another forum today that the Cowon would sound great as a stand alone player, but no better than an iPod through my HU. If that's the case, I'd be seriously disappointed. :-(

 

 

I don't know how to be any more clear. I said: "FAT32 has a 4GB limit which needs to be overcome

Are you trying to tell me you have WAV/FLAC files bigger than 4GB?

darklife41: Do you have any WAV/FLAC files larger than 4GB? If not then you don't have any 4GB limit that needs to be overcome.

 

Rob.

 

You still have a 100 folder/file on the root, 100 folder/file in those, and 100 folder/files in those limit to overcome on an Alpine HU, regardless of the reason for it. If/when these HUs take NTFS, it will be interesting to see if these limits disappear too.

 

A difference in quality, or sound? Different audio enhancements can trick you into thinking it's a quality difference, because you prefer your sound a particular way. I personally prefer the BBE+ algorithm.

Sorry CG, I missed that post.

 

The highs and midrange through the iPods were weak. I don't know a better way to describe it. They sounded like a 96bitrate file. They weren't clear and the volume just wasn't there. :-s

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Those limits of files/folders have nothing to do with the file system.

 

 

Which is what led me to my questioning regarding 4gb files.

 

 

A logical step, once you realise that there is no 4gb limit.

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My logic works a little differently. Some of these HUs with USB (EG: Alpine IVA-W505) also do DVDs and videos. To me, it makes sense that each manufacturer would create 1 format that covers both HU DVD players and HU CD players with USB connectors. Anything to keep production costs down is understandable (but then I come from a production backround). And for the record, it would be easy to have a HD video file over 4GB.

 

As for why they use FAT32 rather than NTFS or something else: They probably didn't consider people using removable HDD when designing the USB slots, and assumed it would only be USB memory sticks being used with them. Most memory sticks come formatted to FAT32.

 

I've yet to see where someone explains the reason for these HU limitations with folders/files. I'm not insulting anyone here, but all of this is speculation on both your parts and mine until the reason is provided.

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I think you'll find that they probably don't use NTFS due to licensing issues, rather than anything else.

 

 

Now you're throwing high def video(or video of any kind) into the mix?

 

 

Better be careful of those goal posts! :P

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Just a siderail, but I see no mention of whether you tried iRiver or not.

Not up to your requirement, or haven't been suggested it?

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Just a siderail, but I see no mention of whether you tried iRiver or not.

Not up to your requirement, or haven't been suggested it?

My son has a dead iRiver H320 (20GB) sitting here, which lasted about a year. It just sat in his car, so not like it was abused. Kind of turned me off of iRiver. But thanks for the heads up.

:-)

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I've got a second-hand one which has been going strong for, god, over four years I think. Battery life leaves a little to be desired, but that's all.

 

The drive is upgradeable, it can be RockBoxed (If that's what rocks your socks), the only thing that'll break the deal is whether or not the sound quality is up to your requirement. Give one a try if you can :)

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Hey mate, been having a bit of a read on a few things :)

 

First question though, are you sure the 9827 has the Burr-Brown DACs? I can't seem to find a link supporting that.

 

Second thing, here's a link of a few of the more popular HUs that bypass the ipod DAC.

 

http://community.crutchfield.com/blogs/av_...-converter.aspx

 

Only reason I prefer ipod over any other option (excluding CD of course) is that using the ipod in this manner retains the full menu, such as playlists and sorting options (artist/album) whereas most USB hard drives will have you building directories of folders in a less intuitive manner.

 

Most MP3 players won't play as well with the head unit either, as they'll either interface with the headunit through usb (which gives you the folder option) or through AUX which is bypassing the headunit's DAC.

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I appreciate the replies.

 

Go ahead and burst my bubble by making me read my specs (1 bit regulated DAC). Damn, I thought all Alpines for the last several years were Burr Brown DAC. Ok, I'm over it now.

 

Also didn't know that using AUX was bypassing the DAC, which is how my Creative was setup. I guess its the lossless files that are making the difference then.

 

The H320 here is really dead. I let it charge all night... still nothing. Without at least having some spare parts to use I don't think its worth messing with.

 

On the other hand... I didn't find any Creative Jukebox Zen Xtra on ebay.com.au when I've looked, but found plenty of them on ebay.com over the last couple days. I have a few bids going. Figure I can clone the hard drive and upgrade it to 160GB again easily and that'll solve the sound and storage problems. It might or might not make mine playable again too, as it powers up but won't go past the recovery screen. I might buy 3 or 4 of these things at $50USD apiece so don't have this problem again for a long time. That's by far the cheapest option, and I know I'll be happy with the results if I can get one working. :-)

Edited by darklife41

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Also didn't know that using AUX was bypassing the DAC, which is how my Creative was setup. I guess its the lossless files that are making the difference then.

 

o_0

 

 

Really?

 

I would have thought this to be the single most OBVIOUS thing about the whole ordeal. Ofcourse it's the lossless files. And ofcourse it bypasses the DAC!

 

It's an analogue audio signal... you can't just put it back through an ADC and then the DAC for a sudden improvement in sound quality. It will only EVER degrade sound quality. It will never come out as it was originally intended, specially not if it is sending via a lossy format.

 

 

 

Glad you've come to a decision though. May your car be filled with (almost) audiophile quality soundwaves.

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