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GlennsPref

would "you" like a tute on audio eng?

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Hi, I have wondered if it would be usefull to type up a page concerning live recording.

 

Any takers?

 

Rather a page, maybe a discussion!

 

I have some experience, both live and studio work, they are very different, but somehow similar.

 

And I am prepared to answer questions!

 

What do you want?

 

sincerely, Glenn

Edited by GlennsPref

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I'd read it, but it would only be refreshing what i already know... Done a bit of audioeng myself, live and studio... but not for quite a while now. Certainly wouldn't be happy with doing FOH on a live gig at no notice :P

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I'd read it, but it would only be refreshing what i already know... Done a bit of audioeng myself, live and studio... but not for quite a while now. Certainly wouldn't be happy with doing FOH on a live gig at no notice :P

I agree.

I'd be OK on an analog desk but the digital ones are scary!

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Not to be a wet blanket, but Nickax put up some long tutorials before... I dont think they generated much interest. Plenty of stuff on the net anyway. And of course the only real way to learn is to get your hands dirty. Then again, his tutorials were more from a musical and creative perspective rather than technical, so maybe covering new ground is good.

Edited by komuso

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I missed nickax's work.

 

I've read some of his stuff, and he knows what he's talking about.

 

But I don't intend to rewrite anything.

 

That's the problem with long posts, it sometimes leaves no questions, and the thread dies.

 

I think I've been guilty of that.

 

Anyhow, thanks for the tips, I'll prolly attack it in a conversational manner and from the musicians tech point of view.

 

Cheers Glenn

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But musos are terribly bad sound engineers.... :P

 

 

 

Vocalist: Turn the vocals up! Lets put on more effects on it!

Guitarist: Turn the guitar up! Give me a massive solo!

Drummer: More snare! Make the toms meatier!

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How about if we include acoustics .

 

Drum mic'ing, to reduce spill, and capture timbre? can do.

 

although we'll avoid drum machines (cool for guitar practice, ;) )

 

A lot of spill can be removed before it hits the mic by using acoustics.

 

We can cut down the reverberations, especially the first reflections (loudest) with a well treated room.

 

Close, directional mic placement for each instrument, and ambient, stereo capture.

 

A bit hard with only an 8 track (I had a four track for years), but you should record the fx (reverb, delays, etc) on a separate and non-adjacent track to the dry instrument. This way you don't record your over exuberence without the choice of changing it later.

 

If you're doing it in a gararge or other untreated room, chuck a couple of matresses along the walls, or in the corners.

I'm thinking really short term here.

 

Can get quite stuffy, but it will reduce spill.

 

Another classic way is to record outside.

 

Another good book,

 

The Master Handbook of Acoustice. (3rd edition, I have) F. Alton Everest

ISBN 0-8306-4437-7 (paperback)

 

That book and the speaker design book combined helped me to understand "sound in free air space"

Designing, Building and Testing Your Own Speaker System, David B Weems

ISBN 0-8306-3374-X

 

cheers

 

Oh, I meant to add, band practice techniques.

Edited by GlennsPref

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But musos are terribly bad sound engineers.... :P

 

 

 

Vocalist: Turn the vocals up! Lets put on more effects on it!

Guitarist: Turn the guitar up! Give me a massive solo!

Drummer: More snare! Make the toms meatier!

You are right, but not in all cases.

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True.

 

I have been to one performance(in my life) that didn't really fit those standards.

 

Was a Jazz performance :)

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Well there's plenty of time to go to concerts.

 

A couple of things that really stood out from My first Band was the way we practiced.

 

Well, it wasn't just practice.

 

We devised a structure for practice, rehersal and performance.

 

I learnt this from Victor Moet, who was the leader of the first band I was in. (we lived in the same block of flats, for a while)

 

When we got together with the band for a practice, we always hired a hall. 2 infact.

 

one for tuesday night and one for thursday night. Saturdays we would jam (bbq, invite anyone, byo) at the Drummers place, out in the bush.

 

Yes it got wild at times.

 

Back to the goss, At the jam, we would perform as if on stage to a paying audience.

 

But this ability came from the way we practiced.

 

Of course we all did our own research (practice-patience-persistance) out side of band hours.

 

But when we got together on Tues and thurs, we set up in a circle, all amps pointing in, with vocal PA.

 

This taught us a lot about volume and when and where to play (communication)

 

So the drums were acoustic, the vox PA was bought up to deal with that volume (drums, and how Frank played)

 

Then the bass and guitars were bought in to fill the spot.

 

The vocal mic was loudest, if required, to interject and/or make comments. Vic was the vocalist, lead guitarist, keyboardist and bandleader.

 

He taught me heaps about band practice, he had toured eastern europe in the early eighties with an aussie (aboriginal) Regae band.

 

He still receives royalties.

 

So, with all the sound sources facing the center of the circle we could hear each other and our-selves really well, so we had an Idea what it would sound like when we played live.

 

Try it, it takes self disipline, Nobody likes to be told to turn it down, this way everybody realises where they are in relation to everyone else.

 

And, most immportantly, you can work on dynamics. This really keeps an audience involved.

 

And I don't mean pissheads who could care less, I mean Mums and dads at a 21st or a wedding, get up and dance when the rock starts.

 

If you don't practice right, on the night, it won't be right.

 

I guess I was lucky, I was a guitarist teaching audio eng at the SAE, bris.

 

But although I had all that, I still find it very hard to do it all myself.

 

I have setup my pc to record and monitor in real time, able to record 2 tracks at once, and monitoring all other tracks in real time....

 

I get cought up in the tech, and can't perform. Bit like sex in public! lol.

 

Let's keep this discussion going, I want to make a new record, Not sure what, maybe longest thread (time based)

 

I've even had my GF, pressing the buttons for me at 4am to try and capture my lead ideas.

 

You can hear the outcome here, Sheesh, headswell.

 

http://glennwaller.googlegroups.com/web/Th...1gYotyj7-X7wDON

 

Yeah, it's a long link, but it should work.

 

While recording, I was still learning, I streached the tape, My over exuberance showing.

 

Jane sheehe(vox) and Warren Huntedmark (gibson/marshal & bass) Rick McKensie on Drums and I wrote and played the rest.

 

16 track studio. Mike Quinn and Mike Glover played a huge part. Co-workers.

 

I should add, The song/theme was written from a poem by Tracy Rochelle Clark.

Edited by GlennsPref

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That's a nice song. (pity about the MP3 format)

I really think that using an acoustic guitar for the rhythm would make it more awesome.

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It does, It starts with the acoustic, and it's present through-out, bloody mp3 format. Probably down in the mix.

 

It was written purely on acoustic. But then I guess I tried to throw everything at it.

Edited by GlennsPref

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Yeah, I know the MP3 fucks with your mix when you convert.

I just thought it needed more jingle jangle acoustic and the strummed electric pushed back a bit.

That could all well be what I prefer though.

 

Wouldn't mind hearing the wav file though..........I'm guessing df69 wouldn't mind either.

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Ah, yes, I remember now, the mastering guy cut my 4 bar acoustic intro, it was meant to be thematic.

 

It's the same as the outro. Yeah, probably too much compression on the acoustic.

 

I haven't heard it in quite a while. The intro was the same as the outro.

 

But the mastering engineer said it was too long (pop music).

 

Well, I have a .wav of it, it's 45.2Mb.

 

I just had a look at my googlepages and it's too full to add this file.

 

I'm uploading the song now to another group.

 

I'll post a link when it's done and verified. Cheers, Glenn

Edited by GlennsPref

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No luck, I've let it run for ages, retried 3 times.

 

But finally an error message.

[failed] The Forest 94.wav

Unable to upload file (The Forest 94.wav) because it exceeds the maximum file size (10MB).

Any tips on where I could upload it to?

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It's not really worth all the bother, it's a good song, but the recording is not up to spec.

 

I'll check out the site anyway.

 

I have a suspician that the acoustic was completely removed from the final mix, either that or it was eq'd and compressed so much

(read, over produced) it don't sound like my acoustic. I believe the bottom end was too boomy, in the mix, so it was nutered.(nuts removed)

It was done in 1994, lol. 16track, 1" tape, basf, of course.

 

cheers, Glenn

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Yeah, I know the MP3 fucks with your mix when you convert.

I just thought it needed more jingle jangle acoustic and the strummed electric pushed back a bit.

That could all well be what I prefer though.

 

Wouldn't mind hearing the wav file though..........I'm guessing df69 wouldn't mind either.

Yes.

 

 

Yes, I would :D

 

 

I didn't even bother with the track when I saw it was mp3......sorry Glenn, but I can't even find a drug that makes the format listenable :P

 

 

I'll download the mp3 so I can compare to the wave when it comes :D

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Ok, OK!

 

If I find a space to upload it to.

 

I really like this song, but the recording could be better. In rhetrospect.

 

I signed up to guitaraustralia to night, nice idea, and a great find.

 

I could email it to you?!?

 

Is there a utube for audio?

 

or maybe you could "get" it from me. kget, wget, etc.

 

But I haven't done that before. Served.

 

cheers, and thank you for the kind words.

 

Glenn

Edited by GlennsPref

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