Jump to content
MrFriendly

To ban or not to ban.

Recommended Posts

There has recently been some discussion in our media about banning the burqa in Australia.

 

I've been pondering this issue a lot, because to be honest, I don't know how I feel about it. To be begin with, I was dead set against any banning, I didn't think any political debate about it was even worthy of peoples time, and it struck me as just populist politics. To be fair, to bring the issue up at this point in time with an election on the horizon is populist politics.

 

But I want to try an explore this.

 

The burqa unsettles me in the sense that I feel the cultural ideal behind it is incredibly sexist and degrading to women. I personally feel more comfortable with being able to see a persons face. So much of our communication is body language, so much of that comes from facial expression alone. A part of me feels that to allow the burqa to be a slap in the face for womens rights and equality, but also of the right for people to know to whom they're speaking, after all, the face is the mirror of the soul.

 

However, a policy to do so, in all realistic terms, is profiling and targeting Muslim women. There's no question this will piss Muslim communities off. But, what if Muslim women actually want to wear the burqa? Does the government have the right to tell people what they can and can't wear?

 

If the political line is that the burqa is to be banned to protect womens equality, not only does this unfairly treat women who choose to wear the burqa, but without this policy marginalising a minority group, the government would also be obliged to step in and interfere with other minority groups or society at large to ban anything deemed sexist. The question must be asked, where is the line drawn?

 

We are a secular society, and a law, and the spirit of that law, can't just apply to one section of society, it must apply to all, for we should all be equal under the eyes of the law.

 

If the government is to ban certain fashion because a section of that society feels it's offensive or confronting, is it not only fair that the same thing can happen to other sections of society because others find their dress and behavior offensive or confronting? Hey, I can't fucking stand white middle class outer suburb shits who wear Fubu because they think they're black. But do I or the government have the right in a free society to tell them that they can't wear those clothes?

 

So do we accept that immigration and foreign policy has allowed people to come here and wear the burqa, as is their right to. Or, because some take offense, do we risk allowing government to encroach too far into our lives?

 

It's a tricky issue to be sure. My only hope is that if this issue gains more media, public, or political attention that the deeper issues and implications are considered and properly debated.

 

Your thoughts?

 

Edit - typos and shit

Edited by MrFriendly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't particularly like the idea of the things for some of those reasons and also find them a bit offensive towards other people.

 

Kind of like how Michael Jackson used to wear his surgical masks as if to say "I'm better than all you and am wearing this to sheild myself from you".

 

But, aside from such places as banks or secure areas where you must be identifiable, I don't see any justification to ban them.

 

If they ban them, then go and ban those fucken hoodie jackets too. Then have some public consultation and we'll ban everything else that looks kitch or offensive. Don't limit it to clothes either, may as well include furniture, ornaments and decorations that offend. Ban beanbags, pouffes, fluffy dice and ducks on the walls for starters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's stupid. What's next? Lets ban gloves. Obviously only criminals wear gloves. Lets ban coats too, you could be carrying a bazooka under there. And don't forget shoes, you could have a bomb. And underware too for the same reason.

 

 

It feels very much like a poorly masked attempt to attack the muslim faith. People need to get over it.

 

I'm fairly sure people have lost thier fucking minds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm yet to actually hear a good reason to ban them.

 

Sure there are reasons, sometimes even a little bit logical, but rarely any more logical than banning denim shorts.

 

Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember seeing something on telly where they interviewed two muslim women wearing burqas... They were Australian, accent and all.

 

They said that the majority of women who wear the burqa in Australia were Aussie women who had converted their faith to islam, so actually chose to wear it.

 

 

Personally, i found that interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimately I do not like the idea of an enforced dress code. I understand that there are cases where women are forced to wear the burqa, but I don't believe we can solve the problem by effectively fighting fire with fire. And yes, it raises the question - what if wearing it is a free and unpressured choice? I don't like the idea of keeping people from wearing something that they want to wear.

 

Obviously, in cases where security is a factor, that is different. I'm sure I wouldn't be allowed to make a withdrawal dressed up as a ninja, and for good reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ultimately I do not like the idea of an enforced dress code. I understand that there are cases where women are forced to wear the burqa, but I don't believe we can solve the problem by effectively fighting fire with fire. And yes, it raises the question - what if wearing it is a free and unpressured choice? I don't like the idea of keeping people from wearing something that they want to wear.

 

Obviously, in cases where security is a factor, that is different. I'm sure I wouldn't be allowed to make a withdrawal dressed up as a ninja, and for good reason.

 

I'll give you $100 is you do this. :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I don't like the idea of an enforced dress code either. But. I can see the govt's point, too. And, you are already not allowed to wear some items in some places: a balaclava or motorcycle helmet in a bank, for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that there are cases where women are forced to wear the burqa

 

And we need to target those, as what they are, abuse.

 

We don't do that be enforcing the same level of systematic abuse against those that choose to wear it.

 

Yeah, I don't like the idea of an enforced dress code either. But. I can see the govt's point, too. And, you are already not allowed to wear some items in some places: a balaclava or motorcycle helmet in a bank, for example.

That's not a law, as far as I'm aware. Its a term of service.

 

I'm happy to be corrected, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are going to ban them then you need to ban all items of clothing that cover the face imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We are a secular society, and a law, and the spirit of that law, can't just apply to one section of society, it must apply to all, for we should all be equal under the eyes of the law.

No, we're not all equal under the eyes of the law, nor should we be. Just look at drivers, for example. Look at women. A guy can walk down the street topless. Can a woman? Nope.

 

I think the government should keep out of the burqa debate, let's not go down the road that Italy has.

 

 

I'm all in favour of banning the burqa.

This is Australia, not the Middle East.

Burqa's aren't worn in only the Middle East. Just look at Afghanistan.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think anything should be banned clothing-wise "In Australia"...

 

But I think that if motorcyclists are asked to remove their helmets when entering banks, so should wearers of the burqa be asked to remove it in the same situations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm personally in favour of banning any headwear that completely obscures the face. Hoodies and the "normal" burqas are fine, but the full-face ones I don't like. For much the same reason I'd think it's dodgy if I saw someone with their car number plate purposefully obscured, or wearing a balaclava.

It's stupid. What's next? Lets ban gloves. Obviously only criminals wear gloves.

It's not the same. Wearing gloves, or coats or hand-knitted kashmir willie-warmers doesn't obscure your face and make you unidentifiable, unlike burqas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a society health and safety issue. Just how much peripheral vision do you think these women have when they are wearing their letter box disguises? It's hard enough weaving around them at Westfield Carousel, I shudder to think what they can't see when they are changing lanes in their get up.

 

Ladies of Middle Eastern descent, please understand that I do not find you attractive. You may rest assured that I will not look upon you as a sexual object, and that your belief-based modesty issues are irrelevant to me. Also, your husbands who wear what seems to be oversized night shirts, please make them stop, otherwise I will be forced to give them a striped nightcap, a candle, and force them to sing "Wee Willy Winky" whilst so garmented.

 

Thank you for your attention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Banning burqa = infringement of human rights.

 

Prohibit persons from driving whilst wearing them = smart safety move.

 

Imo, wear what you want but don't try and drive with a letterbox on your head or you will kill some poor bastard.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I look at it from a different point of view. I am a motorcycle courier and wear a full face helmet. During the course of my work day I have to enter banks, government buildings (courts, parliament etc.), military bases and other highly secure private companies.

 

In all of these places I have to remove my helmet due to security protocols. I do as I am asked because it is not worth the consequences and the hassle not to comply.

When I get pulled over by the boys in blue they ask me to remove my helmet.

 

A lot of petrol stations will not turn the pump on until I remove my helmet.

 

When I deliver to private addresses I find that people are a lot less receptive to a person on their doorstep wearing a full face helmet, especially the elderly.

Some of you my say then why don’t you just wear an open face helmet instead?

 

Well I like to have maximum protection first and other guys I work with that wear open face helmets still have to through the same procedure of removing their helmets as well.

 

I’m not saying we should ban it but, I do believe that the burqa should not be allowed in certain places just like motorcycle helmets.

 

Just an interesting side note. I believe that the burqa is banned in Tunisia and in Egypt. Two Muslim countries. Food for thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The burqa unsettles me in the sense that I feel the cultural ideal behind it is incredibly sexist and degrading to women.

The thing is, there are probably a lot of clothes and magazines that one could say are incredibly sexist and degrading to women (and I'm thinking women's magazines fall into this category) and we aren't looking at banning them.

 

 

But, aside from such places as banks or secure areas where you must be identifiable, I don't see any justification to ban them.

This about sums it up for me.

Edited by Mac Dude

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the government have the right to tell people what they can and can't wear?

The government does this all the time.

 

I'm not allowed to wear the uniform of an Air force officer, and women are not allowed to wear see-through tops in public.

 

Personally, I would rather see a law passed that noone may be compelled to wear the burqa, nor discriminated or ostracized based on the decision to wear it or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I would rather see a law passed that noone may be compelled to wear the burqa, nor discriminated or ostracized based on the decision to wear it or not.

Don't we already have those laws?

 

Rob.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the government have the right to tell people what they can and can't wear?

The government does this all the time.

 

I'm not allowed to wear the uniform of an Air force officer, and women are not allowed to wear see-through tops in public.

 

Personally, I would rather see a law passed that noone may be compelled to wear the burqa, nor discriminated or ostracized based on the decision to wear it or not.

 

I'm sure most of us would agree with that. But how do you tell whether they are wearing it because they choose to, or because they are being forced to? Especially when those who are being forced to may not even tell you they are being forced to, for fear of later repercussions from those forcing them to do so?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×