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Read my lying lips: Abbott admits you can't believe everything he says

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This isn't a court of law. We don't lessen their sentence if they confess. Lying politician who confesses to lying afterwards is just as one who doesn't.

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This isn't a court of law. We don't lessen their sentence if they confess. Lying politician who confesses to lying afterwards is just as one who doesn't.

No he's not. The one who doesn't admit it is holding the Australian public in contempt.

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This isn't a court of law. We don't lessen their sentence if they confess. Lying politician who confesses to lying afterwards is just as one who doesn't.

 

Your context is wrong. As explained, it's more matter of saying more than should, or saying things that aren't agreed on or fully understood, not outright deliberate lies. Context.

 

This isn't a court of law. We don't lessen their sentence if they confess. Lying politician who confesses to lying afterwards is just as one who doesn't.

No he's not. The one who doesn't admit it is holding the Australian public in contempt.

 

 

Yep. And I don't even like the guy.

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This isn't a court of law. We don't lessen their sentence if they confess. Lying politician who confesses to lying afterwards is just as one who doesn't.

No he's not. The one who doesn't admit it is holding the Australian public in contempt.

 

 

 

So... we should vote for the one who confesses to lying?

 

Hate to break it to you but a politician who doesn't holding the Australian public in contempt WOULD NOT HAVE LIED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

I think you're confusing forced confession with honest regret and resolve to NEVER DO IT AGAIN.

 

That's right. Forced confession, not a volunteered confession. Abbot was basically caught PANTS DOWN lying, the fact that he went "oh shit, yeah I lied cos I was in the heat of the moment." and then said "so what, all politicians do it" doesn't make him a better man, just more nonchalant about it.

 

 

I mean if people starting to vote for politicians based on who confesses to wrong doing then they'd all start doing it just to appear "honest" even though it's a fake honesty.

 

 

:-P

 

Your context is wrong. As explained, it's more matter of saying more than should, or saying things that aren't agreed on or fully understood, not outright deliberate lies. Context.

 

That's a cope out. If something is not agreed on or fully understood then it shouldn't be made as a promise in order to get votes. Which is essentially what he's done. Lying is lying anyway you put whether if it's calculated lie or making rash promises that you knew you aren't able to keep.

 

I'd consider the leader of the opposition a liar if he said on day 1 "Vote for the Coalition! We WON'T increase taxes!" then goes "oh yeah, I might have misquoted that, we ARE going to raise taxes" on day 2.

Edited by Oracle X

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We already know that all politicians lie though, and never or rarely admit mistakes.

 

I mean, you don't see Rudd saying, "Yeah fair enough, I personally bolloxed up the insulation scheme, sorry, I'll fix it and do better next time."

 

That would be the honest thing to do, but he'd probably be lynched by the electorate.

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How is that honesty? Honesty would have been not lying in the first place.

 

And yes he WAS lying, when you make a promise that you can't fulfill in order to garner support, you lied. Regardless of whether the promise was "carefully prepared, scripted" or not.

 

Not to mention that Abbot has not admitted to lying nor actually apologized for misleading the public. He only made excuses, which is what politicians do.

 

If you think that makes him a better candidate than Rudd then go ahead, vote for him. I guarantee you that once the pollies catches on, everyone of them would be start being similarly "honest"...

 

"oh, vote for me! I oppose the internet filter proposal!" 2 weeks latter "Did I say I oppose it? Well that wasn't a scripted statement, so you shouldn't have taken it seriously."

 

 

 

Abbot is no more honest than any other politicians around, Rudd or otherwise. He might be more CANDID about it, but he's not more honest. Just as an openly corrupt official is no better than a secretly corrupt official.

Edited by Oracle X

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I'm not saying Abbot is totally devoid of the weaselly aspects of politics. Just that admitting that he and everyone else takes liberties with the truth is reasonably honest. I mean we know this anyway - it happens right here on the forum in almost every thread...

 

It puts him up in my eyes, but not enough to vote for the Libs.

 

At this stage, I honestly think I will be putting the Greens first, if there isn't a viable independant in my electorate.

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"Say what you mean and mean what you say"

http://www.leadershipturn.com/say-what-you...n-what-you-say/

 

Leadership 101.

 

If you can't commit to something, *don't* come out and say "I'm commited to this".

 

If you make a mistake, come out and just admit it, without being called out on it (like Abbott was).

 

I'd have thought a skillful politican was someone who could keep their cool under pressure, not come out with what ever pops into their head at the time.

 

Do politican sometimes lie? Sure. Does that mean the rest of us should suddenly drop our standards and simply accept they're all corrupt, dishonest pricks?

 

The man basically came out and said "When in the heat of an argument, I loose my cool and say things I have no intension of following through on". That is an increditably poor quality to have in someone whom we expect to lead the country.

 

I'm actually surprised at the number of people who seem keen to just let him off the hook.

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The man basically came out and said "When in the heat of an argument, I loose my cool and say things I have no intension of following through on". That is an increditably poor quality to have in someone whom we expect to lead the country.

I also have problem with this.

 

On the surface it does appear to look like Abbott is more "honest" than Rudd. But what is he really saying? That it's OK to lie when he's not working under a script? Didn't he just not only gave himself excuse for lying in first place, but also any lies he will spout in the future?

 

If he's caught pants down lying around, he could just quote this and say "hey, I did say not everything I said should be taken as the gospel truth."

 

 

 

Now look at what Rudd did. When he was pressed by the 7:30 Report on the issue, he was forced to put his back to the wall and defend himself thereby coming across as desperate and angry. And that's how it should be.

 

When pollies get caught lying, they NEED TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. They don't get to play the "Not A Core Promise" Card! There should not be such a card in the first place.

Edited by Oracle X

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I agree with Oracle X and neowulf. It makes me shudder to think of Abbott as PM.

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This isn't a court of law. We don't lessen their sentence if they confess. Lying politician who confesses to lying afterwards is just as one who doesn't.

No he's not. The one who doesn't admit it is holding the Australian public in contempt.

 

 

 

So... we should vote for the one who confesses to lying?

 

Hate to break it to you but a politician who doesn't holding the Australian public in contempt WOULD NOT HAVE LIED IN THE FIRST PLACE.

 

I think you're confusing forced confession with honest regret and resolve to NEVER DO IT AGAIN.

 

That's right. Forced confession, not a volunteered confession. Abbot was basically caught PANTS DOWN lying, the fact that he went "oh shit, yeah I lied cos I was in the heat of the moment." and then said "so what, all politicians do it" doesn't make him a better man, just more nonchalant about it.

 

 

I mean if people starting to vote for politicians based on who confesses to wrong doing then they'd all start doing it just to appear "honest" even though it's a fake honesty.

 

 

:-P

 

Your context is wrong. As explained, it's more matter of saying more than should, or saying things that aren't agreed on or fully understood, not outright deliberate lies. Context.

 

That's a cope out. If something is not agreed on or fully understood then it shouldn't be made as a promise in order to get votes. Which is essentially what he's done. Lying is lying anyway you put whether if it's calculated lie or making rash promises that you knew you aren't able to keep.

 

I'd consider the leader of the opposition a liar if he said on day 1 "Vote for the Coalition! We WON'T increase taxes!" then goes "oh yeah, I might have misquoted that, we ARE going to raise taxes" on day 2.

 

 

WTF is a "cope out"? And no, you're still lacking context. I'm hardly one to defend him, I'm simply correcting a false impression you keep pushing. You hate the Liberals, it's well known, and I'm no fan of them, but you're blowing this way out of proportion, just like the current shit in the news. Again, context. You're pretty clever until you let your temper blind you. Like now.

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No I'm not angry. Amused, bewildered at the fact that by admitting to lying and excusing himself without actually apologizing nor promising that he won't do it again, Abbott has somehow made himself appear more "honest" to some people.

 

 

I'm calling it a cop out (spelingphail before) because "saying more than should, or saying things that aren't agreed on or fully understood" is BS-speak. Aren't agreed on or fully understood" by whom? By us the voters? By the interviewer? By the listeners? By himself? Can't that excuse be used for anything? e.g.

 

"well I said the internet filter wasn't going to slow down connection speeds, but that's only cos it wasn't fully understood and agreed on. Not everything I said should be taken as gospel."

 

Believe it or not, "I was in a hurry and couldn't explain every detail so you misunderstood, what I actually meant was..." is a pretty well-used argument by liars.

 

That fact that he didn't plan to say it beforehand to say it doesn't make it any less of a lie. A politician who makes this kind of grand declarations without knowing or consolidating his policy is a liar.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but I don't care if he planned to lie before the interview or just decided to say something he doesn't know for sure on the spot. A lie is a lie. And I won't think better of him just cos he admitted to it... oh I'm sorry, I meant admitted to "saying more than should, or saying things that aren't agreed on or fully understood"... :-P

Edited by Oracle X

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I have to agree that it would be best if pollies conducted themselves with a minimum of decency that included being reserved when it came to comments, to help ensure they only ever said things that were properly considered, and rarely dishonest.

 

But, that's never really going to happen, is it?

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I have to agree that it would be best if pollies conducted themselves with a minimum of decency that included being reserved when it came to comments, to help ensure they only ever said things that were properly considered, and rarely dishonest.

 

But, that's never really going to happen, is it?

 

Nope. But the least I can do is refuse to reward them for saying "yep, I do it, so does everyone else. So what?". :-P

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You've never once gotten caught up in the heat of the moment and said stuff you duidn't mean, or couldn't follow thru on? You must be super-human if so.

 

And I'm not claiming he's "better", or "more honest". Just that's he's being realistic, and admitting he can make mistakes. Most will back themselves into a corner and still try and make someone elses fault, or blame a junior staffer, etc.

 

None of them are "better", but some are more willing to show they are human than others. It's a refreshing change is all. That's how i see it.

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Nope. But the least I can do is refuse to reward them for saying "yep, I do it, so does everyone else. So what?". :-P

*shrug* I find that marginally better than someone who insists they are perfect. I never heard Howard or Costello ever say they made a mistake, or Rudd or Swan, or even Turnbull, even after the massive f-up he made with the ute-gate affair.

 

P.S. Just to be clear, I actually think all your points are valid. I just don't think we'll see the day in my lifetime where pollies act better than they do now.

Edited by Kothos

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Nope. But the least I can do is refuse to reward them for saying "yep, I do it, so does everyone else. So what?". :-P

*shrug* I find that marginally better than someone who insists they are perfect. I never heard Howard or Costello ever say they made a mistake, or Rudd or Swan, or even Turnbull, even after the massive f-up he made with the ute-gate affair.

 

P.S. Just to be clear, I actually think all your points are valid. I just don't think we'll see the day in my lifetime where pollies act better than they do now.

 

 

[nods]

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the old joke of "how can you tell when a politician is lying ? their lips are moving" is non-partisan

 

no-one is a statesman these days; it's all about pretence and presentation rather than representation

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the old joke of "how can you tell when a politician is lying ? their lips are moving" is non-partisan

 

no-one is a statesman these days; it's all about pretence and presentation rather than representation

 

I think I love you. :p

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You've never once gotten caught up in the heat of the moment and said stuff you duidn't mean, or couldn't follow thru on? You must be super-human if so.

 

And I'm not claiming he's "better", or "more honest". Just that's he's being realistic, and admitting he can make mistakes. Most will back themselves into a corner and still try and make someone elses fault, or blame a junior staffer, etc.

 

None of them are "better", but some are more willing to show they are human than others. It's a refreshing change is all. That's how i see it.

 

Did he admit that he made a mistake though? Or offer an apology? From what I've seen, he only admit that he lied and that it's common.

 

He didn't actually come out and say "I was wrong, I shouldn't have said that, I apologize to the public for misleading them and I will try to avoid doing it again in the future." Had he said that or something along those lines, I would have been satisfied to leave it along.

 

I guess I'm a little jaded with Howard's "not-a-core-promise" card and this sounds very similar.

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There is a substantial difference between a mistake in fact and an outright lie.

 

Soooo he didn't outright lie, he was only mistaken because as the leader of the opposition, his own people gave him incorrect information on whether or not it's their own policy to raise taxes?

Edited by Oracle X

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