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Dapper_Dan

MGS4 on 360...maybe

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Here, I'll dumb it down even further, so that you can understand:

 

 

code, geometry and texture > Loaded into RAM from Storage (BD/DVD/HDD/Internet) > CPU using code and geometry to calculate the scene, feeds GPU geometry and scene info > GPU accesses RAM and renders textures and basic lighting (pass 1) and passes scene to screen buffer > GPU accesses shader maps in RAM and feeds scene to shader pipeline > Shaders render lighting and displacement effects (pass 2) > Display is passed to post-processing pipeline where AA, AF and other post effects are rendered > Buffer is passed to display and cleared.

 

Rinse and repeat.

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Ok, you want to get technical? Expect a big wall of text :)

 

PS: There is a lot more to the word Multisampling and what it does :) Muppet? HA at least I did not use Wikipedia as my way to show you in fact, I don't think anyone should use it as a way to get a point across, becuase all the information is not creditable. Just go ask the Sunshine Coast UNI or any UNI :) Enjoy the wall of text I am about to bring :)

 

 

You do that.

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Here, I'll dumb it down even further, so that you can understand:

 

 

code, geometry and texture > Loaded into RAM from Storage (BD/DVD/HDD/Internet) > CPU using code and geometry to calculate the scene, feeds GPU geometry and scene info > GPU accesses RAM and renders textures and basic lighting (pass 1) and passes scene to screen buffer > GPU accesses shader maps in RAM and feeds scene to shader pipeline > Shaders render lighting and displacement effects (pass 2) > Display is passed to post-processing pipeline where AA, AF and other post effects are rendered > Buffer is passed to display and cleared.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

And where exactly did you C&P this info from?

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Here, I'll dumb it down even further, so that you can understand:

 

 

code, geometry and texture > Loaded into RAM from Storage (BD/DVD/HDD/Internet) > CPU using code and geometry to calculate the scene, feeds GPU geometry and scene info > GPU accesses RAM and renders textures and basic lighting (pass 1) and passes scene to screen buffer > GPU accesses shader maps in RAM and feeds scene to shader pipeline > Shaders render lighting and displacement effects (pass 2) > Display is passed to post-processing pipeline where AA, AF and other post effects are rendered > Buffer is passed to display and cleared.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

And where exactly did you C&P this info from?

 

 

My brain. It's called 'knowing what you're talking about'.

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Here, I'll dumb it down even further, so that you can understand:

 

 

code, geometry and texture > Loaded into RAM from Storage (BD/DVD/HDD/Internet) > CPU using code and geometry to calculate the scene, feeds GPU geometry and scene info > GPU accesses RAM and renders textures and basic lighting (pass 1) and passes scene to screen buffer > GPU accesses shader maps in RAM and feeds scene to shader pipeline > Shaders render lighting and displacement effects (pass 2) > Display is passed to post-processing pipeline where AA, AF and other post effects are rendered > Buffer is passed to display and cleared.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

And where exactly did you C&P this info from?

 

 

My brain. It's called 'knowing what you're talking about'.

 

Yeah, ok. If you have one :)

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Isnt the AA performed by the machine from a simple line of text? I thought it was all up to the machine performing the neccasary task instead of huge files of memory for it.

 

Essentially. After the scene is rendered, lit, shaded and post-processed, the GPU runs algorithms to remove the jaggies. Multisampling simply means that the GPU does multiple passes to further reduce the jaggies.

 

EDIT: Except on planet Index, where it does something completely different to everywhere else.

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I think the hilarious thing is that index is probably thinking of multi-texturing, but is too proud/illiterate/obnoxious/stupid to admit that he's a clueless chimp.

 

 

EDIT: I'll come back in a couple of hours, to give index some time to do his frantic googling, C+P'ing and misinterpreting.

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Is there a confirmed size of the data on the MGS4 disc? Apart from "it's bigger than a 50gb blu-ray coz they said so".

 

And if so, is there a breakdown on data/video/audio?

 

From what i can gather it doesn't seem to be whether the xbox360 can handle it (most seem to believe there would be no problem), or even disc size, as multiple discs have been done before with no detriment to the games. It seems to be more so that the developer does not want it on 360 for whatever reason.

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From what i understand it's just Kojima's personal dislike of the 360 that's the hold up, much like Gabe Newell's dislike for the PS3. It's one mans personal opinion affecting the entire install base for a system.

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Is there a confirmed size of the data on the MGS4 disc? Apart from "it's bigger than a 50gb blu-ray coz they said so".

 

And if so, is there a breakdown on data/video/audio?

 

From what i can gather it doesn't seem to be whether the xbox360 can handle it (most seem to believe there would be no problem), or even disc size, as multiple discs have been done before with no detriment to the games. It seems to be more so that the developer does not want it on 360 for whatever reason.

 

 

Kojima's probably just sick to death of working on it. And he knows that if it's going to be converted properly, Konami won't want to farm it out to a third party, but instead will want Kojima to optimise it.

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The End: Take a deep breath and chill out. If you get too worked up over index you might get fed up, and not bother having these wonderful discussions with him, in which case I would lose a very enjoyable source of entertainment :P

 

index: It sounds as though you really need to think a bit more.

 

As for the topic in question, when people say that most of MGS4 on the BD is uncompressed, do you mean totally-uncompressed, or lossless-compression?

 

Rob.

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The End: Take a deep breath and chill out. If you get too worked up over index you might get fed up, and not bother having these wonderful discussions with him, in which case I would lose a very enjoyable source of entertainment :P

 

index: It sounds as though you really need to think a bit more.

 

As for the topic in question, when people say that most of MGS4 on the BD is uncompressed, do you mean totally-uncompressed, or lossless-compression?

 

Rob.

 

I'm having a ball. Watching him squirm as he desperately tries to bluff his way through a technical discussion is hilarious. Especially when he decides to go on the attack half cocked, knowing he is in over his head.

 

 

 

 

 

Index, you've had hours. You could've copied and pasted a whole textbook by now. If you could have found one for your alternate reality, that is.

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The End: Take a deep breath and chill out. If you get too worked up over index you might get fed up, and not bother having these wonderful discussions with him, in which case I would lose a very enjoyable source of entertainment :P

 

index: It sounds as though you really need to think a bit more.

 

As for the topic in question, when people say that most of MGS4 on the BD is uncompressed, do you mean totally-uncompressed, or lossless-compression?

 

Rob.

 

I'm having a ball. Watching him squirm as he desperately tries to bluff his way through a technical discussion is hilarious. Especially when he decides to go on the attack half cocked, knowing he is in over his head.

 

 

 

 

 

Index, you've had hours. You could've copied and pasted a whole textbook by now. If you could have found one for your alternate reality, that is.

 

Good luck with that TE, it's been five days and counting since I asked for the link saying Heavingly Bored was nominated for best gaming script and nada. Nothing. Zip.

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His disbelief that anyone could know how the rendering pipeline works is awfully cute. Given the sort of things being discussed in this thread, it's kinda like being amazed someone knows how a gearbox works when you're talking about cars.

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I think Index is talking about mips? =|

I think?

That makes sense, except no. The low detail textures don't take up that much memory.

I'm still waiting on that wall of text, it should be amusing if nothing else.

 

I guess it would be possible to have all the data on DVD's, as I said before, I think the sheer number of DVD's needed would put people off. There's stuff that's used over multiple scene's that, as I said before, are too big to fit in the 360's memory, and would likely make having as many as 10 DVD's perhaps a neccessity if compression isn't used. I don't see Hideo compressing it. And, as I mentioned before, there's a lot of breaking the 4th wall humour that is specifically targeted for PS3. It'd be weird not having it there. Hideo developed it for Sony, because that's where MGS, MGS 2, and MGS 3 were done, and I honestly believe that first link where he wishes people would just shut up about it and talk about the game instead of the system.

 

I don't care either way. If it does, 360 gets one of the best games released this year. If not, well, buy a PS3 if you want to play it, it's no biggie.

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Games have been multidisc for decades.

 

Lost Odyssey - 4 discs and a magnificent game

Final fantasy VII, VIII and IX were multidisc (albeit on CD, still technically outstanding for their time)

Blue Dragon - 3

Infininte Undiscovery - 2

Metal Gear Solid - 2

Oblivion GOTY - 2

Parasite Eve??

 

Not only do I not mind changing discs (I've been changing discs for over a decade on PC installs), some 360 games that are multidisc grant you some sort of achievement for reaching the end of a disc. And to be fair, to play a game like MGS4 on my 360, I'd happily change discs 5 or 6 times, but I think it's feasable to say that a game like MGS4 shouldn't require more than 2 or 3 discs.

 

index: I think you'll find that it's the audio that takes up the most amount of space.

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Like I said, given that MGS4 has long pauses to install the next bit, the experience would be identical.

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Personally i think the rumour is being spread and perpetuated to get folks to hang onto their 360's and to not buy a PS3 to play MGS 4.

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Personally i think the rumour is being spread and perpetuated to get folks to hang onto their 360's and to not buy a PS3 to play MGS 4.

 

Given that the latest 'rebirth' of the rumour was because of something a Konami PR guy said, I think that's a bit too 'tinfoil hat' brigadish.

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