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Ishta2000

Why is Australia becoming so dirty/unclean?

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It's never good to be pestered to do or buy anything. However there's so much stock in theses places,

if you're on a tight schedule, it can make things easier if you can get some assistance.

 

And not having anyone in the area for any fixed time, means the racks very soon become a total mess,

thereby making me feel less inclined to sift my way through the jumble.

Edited by eveln

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I think heavy fines and community service are both needed. Its like $1000USD fine in the states for littering. Australia should be higher I say. Only way to make it sink in.

 

I do agree with some of you that I think its the New Gen Y that think mum and dad will take care of it for me mentality thats fucked. I don't put up with it, if I see anyone throwing rubbish on the ground I fucking let it fly. I have even picked it up and put it in people hands and said the bin is over there mate. Nearly had a punch on with one dickhead who told me to mind my own business. I swear if he was not with his kids I would have stuffed the cigarette up his ass. I told him he was setting a great example for his kids and even turned to the kids and said your dad is a bum, don't turn out like him and walked off.

Edited by Ishta2000

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even turned to the kids and said your dad is a bum, don't turn out like him and walked off.

Hahahahaha

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I like that there aren't many staff in Myer. I hate walking into a clothes shop and having some 18 year old loitering around me asking me if I need help every five minutes. No, I don't. I'm capable of looking at jeans without assistance, thank you. If I see something I like, I will try it on and then I may pay you for it. That's all the interaction I require.

 

Lolwut.

 

"I wan't to buy my gf some new underwear.. but I dont know if they will look any good... can you try them on for me?"

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I think heavy fines and community service are both needed. Its like $1000USD fine in the states for littering. Australia should be hire I say. Only way to make is sink in.

 

I do agree with some of you that I think its the New Gen Y that think mum and dad will take care of it for me mentality thats fucked. I don't put up with it, if I see anyone throwing rubbish on the ground I fucking let it fly. I have even picked it up and put it in people hands and said the bin is over there mate. Nearly had a punch on with one dickhead who told me to mind my own business. I swear if he was not with his kids I would have stuffed the cigarette up his ass. I told him he was setting a great example for his kids and even turned to the kids and said your dad is a bum, don't turn out like him and walked off.

Behaviour like that could get you into fights.

 

Regardless, it isn't any of your business. What the guy does and the example he sets for his kids is up to him. I appreciate that you're concerned about this example, but it's still not your place to behave like that. You're not a police officer and you could end up getting yourself into serious trouble.

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Behaviour like that could get you into fights.

Could? More like will eventually.

Edited by Athiril

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the council here pays some guys to collect rubbish that accumulates along a stretch of road through a state park. seems a bit pointless to me.

The poster seem to find value in these services, and I do too.

 

This might be part of the problem - the perceived pointless'ness of cleaning up rubbish.

Edited by freespace

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I think heavy fines and community service are both needed. Its like $1000USD fine in the states for littering. Australia should be hire I say. Only way to make is sink in.

 

I swear if he was not with his kids I would have stuffed the cigarette up his ass. I told him he was setting a great example for his kids and even turned to the kids and said your dad is a bum, don't turn out like him and walked off.

If I had been with either you or the bloke you intimidated.... I would have very seriously told you where to get off.

 

How dare you talk to that or any man's children that way !! 'Specially as you don't know him/them from a bar of soap.

 

Yes he littered, and yes you probably got ' attitude ' from him in return, but seriously, do you wear a uniform or whatever

that allows you to approach strangers and verbally accost them ? And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

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He's completely within his rights to tell the guy to pick it up, and to question his example to his kids. It may get some people ruffled, but if more people stood up for what's right instead of lamenting that there are no police around to tell them off, then the world might be a better place. If someone is messing up a public space in my area, I have the right to comment.

The danger is that people can get hostile when you catch them out doing something they know is wrong. I surf, and so use the beach regularly. My mates and I were checking out the surf, when a woman walked her dogs onto the beach, and proceed to watch one take a huge dump. She made no moves to pick it up, so one of my mates went down to her and asked her if she was going to clean it up. Long story short she only had one of those green grocery bags, and my friend suggested she get it, which she did, and she picked it up. Story over? No. The woman felt that to regain some of her dignity she had to let fly that we were no good dope smokers who should get a job and she was sick of picking up our dope off the beach... wtf?

 

People say and do stupid things when they are caught out doing something they shouldn't do. That does not mean that you should just let them get away with breaking the law.

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I think heavy fines and community service are both needed. Its like $1000USD fine in the states for littering. Australia should be hire I say. Only way to make is sink in.

 

I do agree with some of you that I think its the New Gen Y that think mum and dad will take care of it for me mentality thats fucked. I don't put up with it, if I see anyone throwing rubbish on the ground I fucking let it fly. I have even picked it up and put it in people hands and said the bin is over there mate. Nearly had a punch on with one dickhead who told me to mind my own business. I swear if he was not with his kids I would have stuffed the cigarette up his ass. I told him he was setting a great example for his kids and even turned to the kids and said your dad is a bum, don't turn out like him and walked off.

Behaviour like that could get you into fights.

 

Regardless, it isn't any of your business. What the guy does and the example he sets for his kids is up to him. I appreciate that you're concerned about this example, but it's still not your place to behave like that. You're not a police officer and you could end up getting yourself into serious trouble.

 

Yes, it could get you into fights but what the hell does it have to do with being a police officer?

 

If some retard is being rude or inconsiderate or breaking a minor law and I want to bring it to their attention then I don't have to go find a police officer to back me up or do it for me.

 

FFS, it's littering. That, being polite, not spitting in public and being a well mannered member of polite society requires said society to police itself occasionally and pull people up on their behaviour...especially in front of kids.

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I think heavy fines and community service are both needed. Its like $1000USD fine in the states for littering. Australia should be hire I say. Only way to make is sink in.

 

I do agree with some of you that I think its the New Gen Y that think mum and dad will take care of it for me mentality thats fucked. I don't put up with it, if I see anyone throwing rubbish on the ground I fucking let it fly. I have even picked it up and put it in people hands and said the bin is over there mate. Nearly had a punch on with one dickhead who told me to mind my own business. I swear if he was not with his kids I would have stuffed the cigarette up his ass. I told him he was setting a great example for his kids and even turned to the kids and said your dad is a bum, don't turn out like him and walked off.

Behaviour like that could get you into fights.

 

Regardless, it isn't any of your business. What the guy does and the example he sets for his kids is up to him. I appreciate that you're concerned about this example, but it's still not your place to behave like that. You're not a police officer and you could end up getting yourself into serious trouble.

 

The downfall of Social Responsibility.

 

It is *everybodies* responsibility as to how children are raised, and everybodies business how people behave in public.

This *must* be balanced against the ability for people to tell others to get fucked.

Currently, it is apparent that gestalt is all for littering. For it to change more people have to care.

Edited by VannA

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Maybe this culture of "not my business" is part of the problem.

 

They are some one else's kids, but they live in the same society as us. If their parents are setting bad examples, the kids should know so they don't grow up emulating it.

 

We crow about how parents these days don't take responsibility for raising their children. Maybe we as a society can, after some introspection, take some responsibilities as well.

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And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

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And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

 

That's true, but it's still not his right to tell a father how to raise his children. He's not an educator, a Department of Community Services official, a police officer or a judge. Therefore, it's not his job to tell the father what's appropriate and what's not.

 

I don't think that "we as a society" should be taking responsibility for this sort of thing. I think that the people whose job it is - i.e. the police and the lawmakers - should be taking responsibility for it.

 

Also, regardless of what your view is about whose place it is and whether society should be taking responsibility, you still can't argue that telling people off in front of their children is a good idea. If the father in question happened to be a bogan who already had a few assault convictions and didn't care about getting another one, then Ishta2000 could have ended up with a black eye or worse. Also, if the guy went to court over the black eye, he would have received a sentence mitigation because Ishta2000 provoked him. See my point?

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Maybe this culture of "not my business" is part of the problem.

 

They are some one else's kids, but they live in the same society as us. If their parents are setting bad examples, the kids should know so they don't grow up emulating it.

 

We crow about how parents these days don't take responsibility for raising their children. Maybe we as a society can, after some introspection, take some responsibilities as well.

My problem with this is....

If you ' tell off ' the dad ( the respected father-figure ) in front of his ' impressionable ' children, at least two things result...

 

1: Kids ' natural respect ' for their dad may wane - which in turn could lead to issues of further parental control in areas

unconnected with the present scenario...

 

2: Dad's ' natural instinct ' to be in control against the stranger could lead to further disruptions in which the kids witness even

more potentially harmful shit .

 

If someone needs telling off, isn't it better done out of sound ( at least ) of others. Or does the teller off need an audience /

witness ?

 

Sure you can say the guy deserves whatever happens 'cause he was an idiot anyway for littering....* shrugs *

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And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

 

That's true, but it's still not his right to tell a father how to raise his children. He's not an educator, a Department of Community Services official, a police officer or a judge. Therefore, it's not his job to tell the father what's appropriate and what's not.

 

I don't think that "we as a society" should be taking responsibility for this sort of thing. I think that the people whose job it is - i.e. the police and the lawmakers - should be taking responsibility for it.

 

Also, regardless of what your view is about whose place it is and whether society should be taking responsibility, you still can't argue that telling people off in front of their children is a good idea. If the father in question happened to be a bogan who already had a few assault convictions and didn't care about getting another one, then Ishta2000 could have ended up with a black eye or worse. Also, if the guy went to court over the black eye, he would have received a sentence mitigation because Ishta2000 provoked him. See my point?

 

No, actually.

 

I see a lot of seperation of responsibility and wrapping people in cotton wool.

 

Ishta runs a risk. So does the other guy.

 

How, exactly, EMI, do you hold such interventionalist views on social policy, and such far right libertarian views in economic policy. Both should share the same philosophical start point. What is it?

 

People have to take responsibility for themselves, their place in society, their expectations *of* society, and their responsibilities *to* society.

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And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

 

There are some places I believe, where verbal assault is a crime also...

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[My problem with this is....

If you ' tell off ' the dad ( the respected father-figure ) in front of his ' impressionable ' children, at least two things result...

 

Sure you can say the guy deserves whatever happens 'cause he was an idiot anyway for littering....* shrugs *

I wouldn't have escalated with the Bum bit.

 

And, if I were (and have done) this part before, I would have asked the child, where they older than about 8 or so, to pick up their parents rubbish, and put it in the bin.

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And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

 

That's true, but it's still not his right to tell a father how to raise his children. He's not an educator, a Department of Community Services official, a police officer or a judge. Therefore, it's not his job to tell the father what's appropriate and what's not.

 

It is when what is right and what is wrong is blatantly obvious. If you take this argument to the extreme, you shouldn't tell a thief to stop stealing because you are not a police officer or a judge, even though he is stealing from you.

 

I don't think that "we as a society" should be taking responsibility for this sort of thing. I think that the people whose job it is - i.e. the police and the lawmakers - should be taking responsibility for it.

I disagree. There aren't nearly enough police to enforce the law. If we don't want a society where you can get away with anything as long as you aren' caught by the police, then we have to start accepting the idea of social responsibility.

 

Also, regardless of what your view is about whose place it is and whether society should be taking responsibility, you still can't argue that telling people off in front of their children is a good idea. If the father in question happened to be a bogan who already had a few assault convictions and didn't care about getting another one, then Ishta2000 could have ended up with a black eye or worse. Also, if the guy went to court over the black eye, he would have received a sentence mitigation because Ishta2000 provoked him. See my point?

If your point is simply you shouldn't do it because the other guy might hurt you, then you are simply advocating the strong can do whatever they like while the week should meekly accept it.

 

Telling people off in front of their children would at least show the children their role model is broken.

 

Maybe this culture of "not my business" is part of the problem.

 

They are some one else's kids, but they live in the same society as us. If their parents are setting bad examples, the kids should know so they don't grow up emulating it.

 

We crow about how parents these days don't take responsibility for raising their children. Maybe we as a society can, after some introspection, take some responsibilities as well.

My problem with this is....

If you ' tell off ' the dad ( the respected father-figure ) in front of his ' impressionable ' children, at least two things result...

 

1: Kids ' natural respect ' for their dad may wane - which in turn could lead to issues of further parental control in areas

unconnected with the present scenario...

 

2: Dad's ' natural instinct ' to be in control against the stranger could lead to further disruptions in which the kids witness even

more potentially harmful shit .

 

If someone needs telling off, isn't it better done out of sound ( at least ) of others. Or does the teller off need an audience /

witness ?

 

Sure you can say the guy deserves whatever happens 'cause he was an idiot anyway for littering....* shrugs *

 

Do it in such a way so neither 1 nor 2 results? I mean you don't have to confrontational about it.

 

"Sir, you appear to have dropped your cigarette butt." would be one way to do it. If he doesn't pick it up, I would pick it up somehow, and say "sir, you shouldn't litter" and that would be the end of it. If possible I would put it in the bin in view of the kids, if not, dispose of it later.

 

If I earn a black eye for that, then well, that's the risk I wear.

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And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

 

There are some places I believe, where verbal assault is a crime also...

 

Are any of those places here? Two wrongs dont make a right in the law, physical assault is a much more serious crime than verbal assault could possibly be. It will always be his right to 'come away unscathed'.

 

That is also not verbal assault

Edited by Athiril

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There are implications associated with tellling people to pick up their rubbish....anyone remember this?

http://archive.atomicmpc.com.au/forums.asp...c=1&t=95292

Oooo that sounds like a fun drive !

Do it in such a way so neither 1 nor 2 results? I mean you don't have to confrontational about it.

 

"Sir, you appear to have dropped your cigarette butt." would be one way to do it. If he doesn't pick it up, I would pick it up somehow, and say "sir, you shouldn't litter" and that would be the end of it. If possible I would put it in the bin in view of the kids, if not, dispose of it later.

 

If I earn a black eye for that, then well, that's the risk I wear.

Pretty much this.

 

And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

 

There are some places I believe, where verbal assault is a crime also...

 

Are any of those places here? Two wrongs dont make a right in the law, physical assault is a much more serious crime than verbal assault could possibly be. It will always be his right to 'come away unscathed'.

 

That is also not verbal assault

 

No, what he posted doesn't sound like verbal assault, but his " fucking let fly " comment seems to suggest more...

but then again, that's down to interpretation ;)

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And do you expect as your god-given right to come away

from these verbal skirmishes unscathed ?...I bloody hope not.

I dont care what you think about it, but it IS his right to come away unscathed, assault is criminal after all.

 

That's true, but it's still not his right to tell a father how to raise his children. He's not an educator, a Department of Community Services official, a police officer or a judge. Therefore, it's not his job to tell the father what's appropriate and what's not.

 

I don't think that "we as a society" should be taking responsibility for this sort of thing. I think that the people whose job it is - i.e. the police and the lawmakers - should be taking responsibility for it.

 

Also, regardless of what your view is about whose place it is and whether society should be taking responsibility, you still can't argue that telling people off in front of their children is a good idea. If the father in question happened to be a bogan who already had a few assault convictions and didn't care about getting another one, then Ishta2000 could have ended up with a black eye or worse. Also, if the guy went to court over the black eye, he would have received a sentence mitigation because Ishta2000 provoked him. See my point?

 

No, actually.

 

I see a lot of seperation of responsibility and wrapping people in cotton wool.

 

Ishta runs a risk. So does the other guy.

 

How, exactly, EMI, do you hold such interventionalist views on social policy, and such far right libertarian views in economic policy. Both should share the same philosophical start point. What is it?

 

People have to take responsibility for themselves, their place in society, their expectations *of* society, and their responsibilities *to* society.

 

I don't hold interventionist views in social policy.

 

I don't know where you got that from.

 

My view is that people should mind their own business and that people shouldn't tell parents how to raise their kids. How's that interventionist? It's quite the opposite.

 

My reference to the Dept of Community Services, judges, etc. was a reference to the people in our society who do currently have the legal right to tell parents how to raise their children. I wasn't commenting on the desirability of this state of affairs.

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