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tantryl

A thought on Mass Effect 2

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I've only just played and finished it, so I didn't feel right bumping the old Jan-April thread. I like the game. It's a decent follow on from the original, but I couldn't help but be slightly bugged by the story telling.

 

It suffers from The Best syndrome.

 

The basic gameplay is the same as the original, but in the original your team mates are a well if unorthodoxically trained military psychic, a gunnery chief stationed at a small colony, a cop unsatisfied with the process of law, a tough loner merc/assassin, a tech driven by social demands, and an archaeologist with inherited powers. They're all good at their jobs, and all in need of a strong and/or compassionate leader.

 

But in the sequel, your team members powers and backstories have been HYPER CHARGED!!!!1!!

 

- The ultimate human, genetically designed to be perfect in mind and body, the exiled princess of a vast kingdom ruled by a pety king which trained her hard then self realised and trained even harder by the ultimate human shadowy organisation, her genetic twin her only link to a normal life but she doesn't even know our ultimate princess exists!

- The ultimate subject of a cruel and abusive camp of biotic child slaves and medical test subjects, a violent a vicious killer with not only a lack of respect for authority but an active hatred for it. Introduced as someone who can take down multiple huge enemies at will, bust through walls and overrun a facility solo. Haunted by her past, unstable, and with a vendetta against the ultimate human shadowy organisation.

- The ultimate krogan, genetically designed to be perfect in mind and body, brought into being by a driven and brilliant father figure who didn't care the cost of doing so, letting thousands die and eventually sacrificing his own life to see this perfect being created. Hated and attacked by some of his own kind because of it but accepted by the wise and benevolent king of the krogan.

- The ultimate medical scientist with a drive to do what he sees as right, no matter the cost. Special forces trained and experienced, head of a team that deployed the most complex virus/disease ever, fighting bands of mercinaries while he was on a mission of mercy.

- The ultimate paladin, trained and dedicated for hundreds of years, devoting her life to extend her biotic powers and uphold the ultimate in justice. Able to single handedly take down merc outfits and police stations full of other, lesser fighters and biotics. Spectres flee from her. Villages protecting those she seeks fall before her might. Her children are rare aberations, powerful and deadly and she's driven to stop the one that uses that power for evil.

- The ultimate assassin with perfect memory. Blah blah can shadow someone in well lit corridors, can kill powerful enemies with simple neck breaks, haunted by past, son in jeopardy etc.

 

 

Well, you get the idea. The only vaugley normal character is Jacob, who is basically Kaidan II, and even he is slightly hypercharged.

 

Even Shepard has been hypercharged. Not satisfied with his initial backstory (which varies, but involves some kind of heroics), becoming the first human spectre, taking down Saren, the Geth, and Sovereign and being the power behind allowing humans on the council... now he's going down with his ship, coming back from the dead and for some reason has been infected with Fable II facial features. 'cause cybernetics, uh, become, uh, aggitated by... uh... evil. They're evil sensitive implants. Moving on.

 

And Garrus and Tali are hypercharged too. The ultimate tactical strategician, leader of a doomed group of vigilantes taking on the biggest den of thieves in the galaxy, who were only doomed because of a betrayal from a person close to them, otherwise it seems likely they would have cleaned out that den. Tali wasn't quite as hypercharged, but threatened with treason and exile and her father being Mengle-esque and dead... well, it isn't exactly "find my family's armor".

 

Even your damn ship has been hypercharged. And Joker is suddenly actually a joker, whereas originally he was just a sallow and bitter bastard.

 

And after you recruit these gods among men, that can destroy villages and devestate penal ships and whatnot... they're just kind of normal in a fight. Follow your orders to the letter, have standard levels of biotic power, etc. They go from these ultimates to regular team members.

 

I realise to do the things you do in the game, you'd need people beyond the bounds of what reality can offer. A team of three taking out hundreds if not thousands of enemies, often on their own defensive territory? Yeah, you've got to be good. But they had to be good in the first one too, and no-one was worried about them not being crazy brilliant ultimate genius masters of kick assery and personal conflicts.

 

Like I said, I like the game. I like the gameplay. I like the story. I even like the characters. I just thought they were trying a bit too hard to make them interesting.

Edited by tantryl

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they designed the game with a console audience in mind is my opinion but don't get me wrong I fucking love both games.

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I can see the obvious changes in gameplay that almost all games are going through due to the console portability. Does a console audience impact the story telling and characters? If so, how?

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I can see the obvious changes in gameplay that almost all games are going through due to the console portability. Does a console audience impact the story telling and characters? If so, how?

I think what you described about the supercharged characters is just that, they make it more interesting for console players cause imo console players generally won't spend a whole lot of time playing a game that takes ages to get into the action, the same goes for the upgrades, weapons and XP points it was all simplified for the console players.

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I had zero issue with it, actually, as in this game you're being given these people to track down based on their fitness for the job.

 

The first one was more about slow discovery of a threat, and picking up strays and interesting people on the way. This one... you know the stakes, you know your employer, and he's given you a list of premium operatives to go out and get.

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I love both mass effects games (but i still need to play (buy) mass effect 1 (i only played a demo and loved it,so i got mass effect 2 off a friend....

Edited by jdog

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The first one was more about slow discovery of a threat, and picking up strays and interesting people on the way. This one... you know the stakes, you know your employer, and he's given you a list of premium operatives to go out and get.

Like I said, it makes sense that you'd need The Best. But once you've got them, usually after an impressive display of skill or power on their part, they're identical in power and function to team members in ME1 in spite of their exciting introductions and back stories. Edited by tantryl

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I really didn't feel that... I mean, anything like this always comes down to personal preference, but the late game in ME2 feels radically different to that in ME1. IMHO :)

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I'd like to re-emphasise the point of the OP as it seems to have been lost: I like the game. I like the gameplay. I like the story. I even like the characters. I just thought they were trying a bit too hard to make them interesting.

 

And that's the thing. It's not bad, it's just trying really hard to be exciting.

 

I really didn't feel that... I mean, anything like this always comes down to personal preference, but the late game in ME2 feels radically different to that in ME1. IMHO :)

Yes, it did. How would you say that hypercharging the characters with powers and backstories makes a difference to the ending? How would it be different if your ME1 team was there? On my play through Samash says any biotic should be able to do that shield thing, and that seems like the only thing amazing powers would be helpful with. Maybe if there'd been some kind of cutscene of the defensive group it'd make a little more sense. My guess is that they didn't include one because people would be more likely to ask what I am: "why couldn't I get them to do that crazy shit?"

 

Bringing up the end game does make something else apparent. There's not really a villain or an evil plan that makes much sense. OK, there's Harbinger. Who we don't know much of anything about. His plan appears to be to create a human super reaper. But he's going to need millions of humans to make it, for which he'd have to invade Earth (so said one of my team mates when on the Collector ship for the first time). So... the plan is... to invade earth... to get the humans... to make the Reaper... so they can invade earth? Again? Maybe if they put the ten or so thousand they kidnapped into a breeding program instead of insta-liquifying them, they would have had more success. And what's the point of a human shaped reaper? Why not a regular shaped reaper filled with human goo?

 

Sure, there might be answers to these questions, but the story isn't told in such a way to make them relevant.

 

In ME1 the main story line was what the game was built around. In ME2 the character plots are the most planned out, and the main story seems to be tacked on. Every single enemy of the main story is an automaton. The ultimate (popular word today) in a moral free pass - slaves with no will of their own, and no potential for it. Pure cannon fodder.

 

Again, I like the game. It's fun. But the first game was smart in a way this one isn't.

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And that's the thing. It's not bad, it's just trying really hard to be exciting.

 

Not trying too hard. It IS really exciting. ME has a very large and complex universe with exceptionally detailed backstories and the characters reflect that. With their decision to give us a wide range of teammates to complete a mission with, they're bound to reach into every corner of the universe to try to come up with different and exciting characters. And so far it worked thanks to the loyalty missions that makes them more than just replaceable human-shields. I actually pick each member not only by their abilities but also their background as relative to the mission.

 

 

On my play through Samash says any biotic should be able to do that shield thing, and that seems like the only thing amazing powers would be helpful with.

Actually no, only Jack and Samath can do it without letting one of the other teammates die. Same with whom you pick to crawl through the pipes and who to lead the fire teams which all ties back to the loyalty missions - who dies and who lives at the end.

 

 

So... the plan is... to invade earth... to get the humans... to make the Reaper... so they can invade earth? Again?

No, the plan was to create a Human Reaper which apearantly is better than regular Reapers due to the diversity of human DNA markup - the Dr's loyalty mission mentions it.

 

As to why it's human-shaped, well they had to make it obvious as to what's going on, also Reapers base their shape on whichever species they're constructed from. I.e. the older Reapers were shaped and based on a species they determined where best for their purpose the last time around, this time it's humans.

 

 

"In ME1 the main story line was what the game was built around. In ME2 the character plots are the most planned out, and the main story seems to be tacked on. Every single enemy of the main story is an automaton. The ultimate (popular word today) in a moral free pass - slaves with no will of their own, and no potential for it. Pure cannon fodder."

I agree that the main "plot" isn't as clever as that of ME1 but I think they more than made it up with the side plots.

Edited by Oracle X

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In ME1 the main story line was what the game was built around. In ME2 the character plots are the most planned out, and the main story seems to be tacked on. Every single enemy of the main story is an automaton. The ultimate (popular word today) in a moral free pass - slaves with no will of their own, and no potential for it. Pure cannon fodder.

have you read the books? collectors are a key part of the storyline in Mass effect: Ascension they are not just tacked on although the ending of no 2 felt very tacked on.

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I can see the obvious changes in gameplay that almost all games are going through due to the console portability. Does a console audience impact the story telling and characters? If so, how?

Expectations.

 

And this fits in for most of the rest of the issues, including the ending.

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In ME1 the main story line was what the game was built around. In ME2 the character plots are the most planned out, and the main story seems to be tacked on. Every single enemy of the main story is an automaton. The ultimate (popular word today) in a moral free pass - slaves with no will of their own, and no potential for it. Pure cannon fodder.

have you read the books? collectors are a key part of the storyline in Mass effect: Ascension they are not just tacked on although the ending of no 2 felt very tacked on.

 

No, I haven't read the books. And the important thing is: I shouldn't need to.

 

*EDIT*

 

OX:

- I agree it's exciting. It's also trying really hard to be exciting. The two are not mutually exclusive. Once again, I like the characters. But they were hypercharged. Again, these two things are not mutually exclusive.

- The death choices are interesting, but how does hypercharging the characters make the choices more important? If you had ME1 characters in and had Tali go through the pipes, Liara do the shield and Ash or maybe Wrex do the fire team... how would anything be different? Making characters ultimate super beings with Days of Our Lives personal lives is an indulgence.

- You don't find that explanation of the human reaper incredibly weak? And you didn't get around my main problem with the logic, which was that the amount of humans necessary would require an invasion of Earth.

- I agree, they absolutely focussed on the side plots. And that's good! I would personally prefer a solid main plot. Sub-plots are nice, character development is nice, these are good things. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to throw in a weak main plot and get them to prop it up.

Edited by tantryl

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In ME1 the main story line was what the game was built around. In ME2 the character plots are the most planned out, and the main story seems to be tacked on. Every single enemy of the main story is an automaton. The ultimate (popular word today) in a moral free pass - slaves with no will of their own, and no potential for it. Pure cannon fodder.

have you read the books? collectors are a key part of the storyline in Mass effect: Ascension they are not just tacked on although the ending of no 2 felt very tacked on.

 

No, I haven't read the books. And the important thing is: I shouldn't need to.

 

 

I'm not sure that's really true.

 

Oz misses out here, from secondary content for major titles.

 

Lets remember why and how a lot of games/comics grew up.. they where merchandising vehicles. And ME, alongside Halo and a few other franchises, is not dissemiliar.

 

Also, you don't have to. But doing so fleshes out the world.

 

You don't have to read Mort before you read Thief of Time.. but it helps.

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In ME1 the main story line was what the game was built around. In ME2 the character plots are the most planned out, and the main story seems to be tacked on. Every single enemy of the main story is an automaton. The ultimate (popular word today) in a moral free pass - slaves with no will of their own, and no potential for it. Pure cannon fodder.

have you read the books? collectors are a key part of the storyline in Mass effect: Ascension they are not just tacked on although the ending of no 2 felt very tacked on.

 

No, I haven't read the books. And the important thing is: I shouldn't need to.

 

 

I'm not sure that's really true.

 

Oz misses out here, from secondary content for major titles.

 

Lets remember why and how a lot of games/comics grew up.. they where merchandising vehicles. And ME, alongside Halo and a few other franchises, is not dissemiliar.

 

Also, you don't have to. But doing so fleshes out the world.

 

You don't have to read Mort before you read Thief of Time.. but it helps.

 

yea I agree I have read all 3 mass effect books the first is probably the most important (revelations) as it details Saren's downward spiral into evil and how he allied himself with Sovereign whereas when I first played ME1 I had no idea who Saren was or what sovereign was... eventually I found the codex but still your left kind of in the dark, probably to make the scene where you talk to sovereign on virmire and talk to vigil on ilos that much more of a omgwtfbbq moment.

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I'm not sure that's really true.

I'm fairly certain.

 

What's better: a story that is satisfying within itself that can be enhanced by other stories in other mediums (such as your Mort/ToT example), or a story that isn't satisfying unless you read a specific book that isn't mentioned in the story in question?

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- The death choices are interesting, but how does hypercharging the characters make the choices more important? If you had ME1 characters in and had Tali go through the pipes, Liara do the shield and Ash or maybe Wrex do the fire team... how would anything be different? Making characters ultimate super beings with Days of Our Lives personal lives is an indulgence.

That's interesting - I actually can't see Ash keeping up with ME2's mission!

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I agree it's exciting. It's also trying really hard to be exciting. The two are not mutually exclusive. Once again, I like the characters. But they were hypercharged. Again, these two things are not mutually exclusive.

I don't understand what your point is. If it is exciting then whatever they're doing succeeded. Isn't "trying hard to be exciting and succeeding" a good thing? Would you rather them to have not tried hard and the characters not hypercharged? Isn't the end result that matters?

 

 

 

 

The death choices are interesting, but how does hypercharging the characters make the choices more important? If you had ME1 characters in and had Tali go through the pipes, Liara do the shield and Ash or maybe Wrex do the fire team... how would anything be different? Making characters ultimate super beings with Days of Our Lives personal lives is an indulgence.

well I did have Tali go through the pipes. :-P Liara has her own little DLC and she too has gone more "hyper". But the point is, old characters move on or develope new skills, new characters are brought in. ME2 has a more desparate and edgy atmosphere than ME1, I mean the whole thing is suppose to be a suicide mission and the kind of people who go on suicide missions tend to be srsly committed or bat-shit insane.

 

They're not super beings. Just very good at their jobs and very committed. You seem to be forgetting that ME is essentially a giant space opera and their flashy personal lives is what makes the whole thing interesting. Would Mordin be so interesting if he weren't part of the initial Genophage effort? By having turbulant personal histories, the characters help fill out the universe with their stories that tells of backstories behind the conflicts. IMO that's what makes the ME series so strong.

 

 

You don't find that explanation of the human reaper incredibly weak? And you didn't get around my main problem with the logic, which was that the amount of humans necessary would require an invasion of Earth.

The intention has always been for the Collectors to invade Earth to finish off the construction of the Human Reapers.

 

 

 

I agree, they absolutely focussed on the side plots. And that's good! I would personally prefer a solid main plot. Sub-plots are nice, character development is nice, these are good things. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to throw in a weak main plot and get them to prop it up.

Think of it as a build up. ME1 was the Reaper's first try using their usual method, ME2 was the Reaper's second try by branching out using experienmental Human Reaper and Collector, ME3 will be the grand finale where they stop tiptoeing around and go all in.

 

 

or a story that isn't satisfying unless you read a specific book that isn't mentioned in the story in question?

I find the story just fine without reading the books. Books are just fillers that explains things a bit more than what the games can cover without making it a long lecture.

 

 

 

That's interesting - I actually can't see Ash keeping up with ME2's mission!

Agreed. Zaeed is so much cooler. And his stories are fucking brilliant! lol

Edited by Oracle X

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Another thing I must point out... in the interests of, well, actual roleplaying in an RPG, I didn't do all the character sidequests. I didn't do Mordin's, or Jacks'. I didn't like them, particularly, and I didn't want them on my team.

 

Subsequently, and because of some other decision I made in the game... I lost a LOT of my crew on the approach to the final mission. To be honest, I think that's what made the game, for me, what it was. I needed everyone who survived to be at the top of their games, and they delivered. For me, Shepherd, and often at great personal sacrifice.

 

Maybe with all characters present, it feels different, but for me it was one of the most satisfying endings of any game I've ever played.

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I didn't do Mordin's... I didn't like them, particularly, and I didn't want them on my team.

:-O

 

I never pegged you for a Krogan-lover! Mordin is freaking awesome! Easily one of the funniest characters in the game, giving Joker a run for his money. I piss myself laughing everytime he opens his mouth.

 

"Not at the moment. Think I've unlocked Collector interest in humans. Wait. No. Only one heart. Krogan have two. Scratch that."

 

"Later. Updating crew dental records. All Cerberus personnel have cyanide capsules in molars. Primitive. Ocular nerve flashbangs harder to disarm."

 

"Not a good time. Trying to map contamination vectors. Requires focus. Ship-wide infection of human-tailored virus possible if I slip."

 

"Later better. Think I've cured Joker's condition. Simple treatment would... No, no, no, no. Would cause liver failure. Never mind. Start from scratch."

 

"Not now. Working on Collector data. Have ruled out artificially intelligent virus. Unless it's very intelligent. And toying with me. Hmm. Tests..."

 

"Perhaps later. Trying to determine how scale-itch got onto Normandy. Sexually-transmitted disease. Only carried by varren. Implications unpleasant."

 

"Some other time. About to test new bio-weapon. Not on us, of course. Didn't think I had to specify, but Joker got nervous."

 

"Having trouble working between your interruptions and EDI's insistence that 'insane' experiments endanger entire crew. Hard to concentrate. Affecting morale."

 

 

 

 

And that's the stuff he says when he DOESN'T want to talk to Sheperd!

Edited by Oracle X

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You see... that's the thing. I shot Rex in my ME1 playthrough, so I ended transferring my guilt to Mordin!

 

That's why I love Mass Effect - one of the few RPGs which really is about the roleplaying :)

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I agree it's exciting. It's also trying really hard to be exciting. The two are not mutually exclusive. Once again, I like the characters. But they were hypercharged. Again, these two things are not mutually exclusive.

I don't understand what your point is.

Yes, I can see that. And you don't seem to be trying to understand it either. You want it to be wrong because you see it as a slight on the game and you like the game so it must be wrong... even if I like the game too.

 

It's OK to like something in spite of oddities.

 

If it is exciting then whatever they're doing succeeded. Isn't "trying hard to be exciting and succeeding" a good thing? Would you rather them to have not tried hard and the characters not hypercharged? Isn't the end result that matters?

It's neither a good thing nor a bad thing. What I'm saying is that it's a noticeable thing. It's something that jumped out at me, as if the game were grabbing me by the collar and yelling in my face. Once again, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, just a noticeable thing. That's all I really said until people started pigeon holing me and trying to get me to say it's bad (which they succeeded manipulating me into doing, to a degree).

 

 

The death choices are interesting, but how does hypercharging the characters make the choices more important? If you had ME1 characters in and had Tali go through the pipes, Liara do the shield and Ash or maybe Wrex do the fire team... how would anything be different? Making characters ultimate super beings with Days of Our Lives personal lives is an indulgence.

well I did have Tali go through the pipes. :-P Liara has her own little DLC and she too has gone more "hyper". But the point is, old characters move on or develope new skills, new characters are brought in. ME2 has a more desparate and edgy atmosphere than ME1, I mean the whole thing is suppose to be a suicide mission and the kind of people who go on suicide missions tend to be srsly committed or bat-shit insane.

 

They're not super beings. Just very good at their jobs and very committed. You seem to be forgetting that ME is essentially a giant space opera and their flashy personal lives is what makes the whole thing interesting. Would Mordin be so interesting if he weren't part of the initial Genophage effort? By having turbulant personal histories, the characters help fill out the universe with their stories that tells of backstories behind the conflicts. IMO that's what makes the ME series so strong.

They're not super beings? So you disagree with my rundown on their abilities and history using them in the OP? That doesn't qualify as a super being?

 

Once again, I agree that you aren't seeing my point. I don't think it's a bad thing that they're hypercharged. It's just something I noticed that lacked any subtlety. That's it. hawkeye's comments made me realise that the main plot was a bit weak too, but that's incidental. You can have hypercharged characters and a good main plot too.

 

Minor clarification, Mordin wasn't part of the initial Genophage effort. That was something like a few hundred years ago, and Salarian's only live 40ish years. He led the team that re-tooled it.

 

You don't find that explanation of the human reaper incredibly weak? And you didn't get around my main problem with the logic, which was that the amount of humans necessary would require an invasion of Earth.

The intention has always been for the Collectors to invade Earth to finish off the construction of the Human Reapers.

Always, eh? Interesting. And how was this revealed to you? I wonder why they started with colonies then, giving ample warning to humans. Even the head-stuck-in-the-sand Alliance was paying attention. Since it seems they're going to have to go after Earth anyway. Seems like fairly poor strategy. But from what I can tell, you're inferring this strategy as it didn't seem to be in the game. We had no concept of the Collectors numbers but it seemed like a pretty small number of ships. 1? 2? Possibly more, I guess. We aren't really given any definitive indication. And that's sort of the point - the plan didn't seem to exist.

 

But this is, as mentioned, completely irrelevant to the OP.

 

 

I agree, they absolutely focussed on the side plots. And that's good! I would personally prefer a solid main plot. Sub-plots are nice, character development is nice, these are good things. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea to throw in a weak main plot and get them to prop it up.

Think of it as a build up. ME1 was the Reaper's first try using their usual method, ME2 was the Reaper's second try by branching out using experienmental Human Reaper and Collector, ME3 will be the grand finale where they stop tiptoeing around and go all in.

OK. Well, their usual method had already failed pre-ME1 thanks to the Protheans disabling the ability for Sovereign to remotely open the big Citadel relay. ME1 was about Sovereign trying to remedy problem, manipulating allies to help him and bring back the Reaper horde. ME2 was about Collectors kidnapping a million or so humans, including an invastion of Earth at some unknown point, and then making a human shaped reaper that was going to... we don't know. Do something. Something bad. Get back the other reapers, I guess. Or kill everyone first, then get them. Or something. We don't really know.

 

 

or a story that isn't satisfying unless you read a specific book that isn't mentioned in the story in question?

I find the story just fine without reading the books. Books are just fillers that explains things a bit more than what the games can cover without making it a long lecture.

So you felt like ME1 was just a long lecture, with it's villain that had a clear and simple goal? And hypercharged characters aren't just filler?

 

Once again, fine with hypercharged characters. I'd prefer a modicum of subtlety, yes. But it doesn't ruin the game or anything. It's just something that I couldn't help but find very noticeable.

 

 

 

 

 

That said, the characters and what you do with them are an excellent source of replayability. The game is incredibly well structured to take advantage of that. Which is nice.

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i really want a Mass effect collect to come out.....they deserve game of year for sure....

 

and what about the mass effect movie?...now that will be interesting...

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It's OK to like something in spite of oddities. It's neither a good thing nor a bad thing. What I'm saying is that it's a noticeable thing. It's something that jumped out at me, as if the game were grabbing me by the collar and yelling in my face. Once again, that isn't necessarily a bad thing, just a noticeable thing.

Well it's an action game. Isn't that what an action game is suppose to do? I realize that your complaint is with the "weak main story" (which imo is only weak because the side stories are so much more interesting). That's a result of perception because of the contrast between what you perceive as the strong and weak points of the game. If both were equal then you wouldn't notice it.

 

 

 

They're not super beings? So you disagree with my rundown on their abilities and history using them in the OP? That doesn't qualify as a super being?

IMO they're not. They just have a richer history and stronger abilities than that of the characters in ME1 possess. Which is perfectly understandable since it's a sequel and they need to up the ante. They're not unstoppable, they're just some of the best in their already elite field. e.g. STG, Justicars, Krogan Warlords etc etc They're elite and they're should be but they can still be stopped. The only superbeing here is Sheperd who pwns everyone he/she meets lol

 

Being part of an elite group also means they were probably in the thick of things hence more turbulant backstories. I don't find that HYPER-charged.

 

 

Minor clarification, Mordin wasn't part of the initial Genophage effort. That was something like a few hundred years ago, and Salarian's only live 40ish years. He led the team that re-tooled it.

I stand corrected. :-)

 

 

 

 

ME2 was about Collectors kidnapping a million or so humans, including an invastion of Earth at some unknown point, and then making a human shaped reaper that was going to... we don't know. Do something. Something bad. Get back the other reapers, I guess. Or kill everyone first, then get them. Or something. We don't really know.

Actually it is about procreation. This is how Reapers are made/born. That and destroy the rest of the galaxy with Human Reapers and/or othe Reapers.

 

 

 

 

 

So you felt like ME1 was just a long lecture, with it's villain that had a clear and simple goal? And hypercharged characters aren't just filler?

 

No, ME1 was fine. Still plenty of lore and background all self-contained in the game. MW2 took it a step further and goes into more detail with its characters and subplots, again, all self-contained in the game. Books on the game are outside the game. So to a game-player they're fillers.

 

 

 

Anyways it's obvious even from their earlier games that BioWare's strongest suit is their character developements, so I'm not surprised if other aspects of the game doesn't stand up to comparison.

Edited by Oracle X

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Well it's an action game. Isn't that what an action game is suppose to do? I realize that your complaint is with the "weak main story" (which imo is only weak because the side stories are so much more interesting). That's a result of perception because of the contrast between what you perceive as the strong and weak points of the game. If both were equal then you wouldn't notice it.

So you're suggesting it's impossible to have both a good story and strong characters?

 

Again, this is irrelevant to the OP and is a side discussion, but OK. I disagree.

 

 

They're not super beings? So you disagree with my rundown on their abilities and history using them in the OP? That doesn't qualify as a super being?

IMO they're not. They just have a richer history and stronger abilities than that of the characters in ME1 possess. Which is perfectly understandable since it's a sequel and they need to up the ante. They're not unstoppable, they're just some of the best in their already elite field. e.g. STG, Justicars, Krogan Warlords etc etc They're elite and they're should be but they can still be stopped. The only superbeing here is Sheperd who pwns everyone he/she meets lol

 

Being part of an elite group also means they were probably in the thick of things hence more turbulant backstories. I don't find that HYPER-charged.

I do. There's a thread about it around here somewhere.

 

Minor clarification, Mordin wasn't part of the initial Genophage effort. That was something like a few hundred years ago, and Salarian's only live 40ish years. He led the team that re-tooled it.

I stand corrected. :-)

Damn straight! Bam, right in the kisser! :P

 

 

ME2 was about Collectors kidnapping a million or so humans, including an invastion of Earth at some unknown point, and then making a human shaped reaper that was going to... we don't know. Do something. Something bad. Get back the other reapers, I guess. Or kill everyone first, then get them. Or something. We don't really know.

Actually it is about procreation. This is how Reapers are made/born. That and destroy the rest of the galaxy with Human Reapers and/or othe Reapers.

It is? How do you know that? So the plan is to make lots of Reapers after this one then? How do you know that? Is this in the game? Did I miss it?

 

 

So you felt like ME1 was just a long lecture, with it's villain that had a clear and simple goal? And hypercharged characters aren't just filler?

No, ME1 was fine. Still plenty of lore and background all self-contained in the game. MW2 took it a step further and goes into more detail with its characters and subplots, again, all self-contained in the game. Books on the game are outside the game. So to a game-player they're fillers.

 

Anyways it's obvious even from their earlier games that BioWare's strongest suit is their character developements, so I'm not surprised if other aspects of the game doesn't stand up to comparison.

 

As I've said, I think they're seperate problems. You can have compelling characters on the bad guy side as well as the good guy side. The villain having a clear goal is not going to ruin good guy characters.

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