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mark84

The little big project

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Im really interested in these kind of builds Mark, keep on it. Post some pictures of it too when you're finished. :)

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ah yes that looks good with the bay pump and slim odd

the gt fans are a good balance of pressure noise airflow although there bearings are not as quiet as the s-flex they wont be much louder than a lot of 7200rpm hdd

and with that much airflow into a little case it may become the limiting factor putting pressure on the fans more than the rad itself trying to move air around the psu and optical drives although if the psu fan is facing up it would swallow some air fairly well its hard to say from pics

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Some dodgy MS paint concept mock ups:

 

Don't want to drill holes in the top of case for fans/air as that'll make the case massively negative in pressure, so it'll just raise them up with rad boxes.

 

Side fan needed to create positive pressure in the case and get some air movement happening. Case air flow will probably be fail otherwise.

Posted Image

 

 

Probably the simplest loop layout. Gets messy trying to get pump+res in before rads then on to CPU. See what you think.

Posted Image

 

 

 

Not sure if I should go dual rads though, that is a sh*t load of rad area. How much of a temp difference would an extra rad make?

Edited by mark84

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looks very nice

silverstone 180mm fans on the side would probably work well

any reason you dont want the air from the rads blowing into the case? other than it may be a restriction to it s airflow

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looks very nice

silverstone 180mm fans on the side would probably work well

any reason you dont want the air from the rads blowing into the case? other than it may be a restriction to it s airflow

Hot air rises? :)

 

Dumping the heat from the rads back into the case? Don't like that idea.

That and the whole right side will have PSU and 5.25" bays restricting air flow completely.

 

Just doing some calculations, the case is 0.0225m³, a FN181-BL allegedly pushes 100cfm (2.832m³), so even at 40% of that cfm, all the air in the case should be replaced 50 times every minute almost once a second! mmm excessive? Noisy?

 

A modest 140mm fan pushing 17cfm would replenish case air 21 times per minute.

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Just doing some calculations, the case is 0.0225m³, a FN181-BL allegedly pushes 100cfm (2.832m³), so even at 40% of that cfm, all the air in the case should be replaced 50 times every minute almost once a second! mmm excessive? Noisy?

 

A modest 140mm fan pushing 17cfm would replenish case air 21 times per minute.

nah 50 times very second ftw really :P just put a filter on :P

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fair enough that case would restrict airflow a fair bit with the rads blowing in

this is the 180mm fan i was thinking of but i guess there wont be much left creating heat in the case anyway so yer its overkill when i quiet 120mm fan would be heaps

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_p...oducts_id=15257

 

so maybe some 800rpm fans on one rad

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_p...roducts_id=3489

and some 1900rpm fans on the other with a speed controller and a off switch

http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_p...roducts_id=7570

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I thought that might have been what you're suggesting with the penetrator. But thinking about it the GFX card will be right in front of it and I need the air to mostly go around it, either up over the top or around the side/bottom to get the the rest of the case so a non penetrator fan would be best. And with a 180mm fan it'll have good air flow up the top and bottom of the case, just run it as lowest speed possible.

 

So I'm sorted for fans, just need to decide on which 3x120mm rads to get..

/looks for reviews

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Did some reading and after looking at results for the four most common ones the XSPC seems the best overall so I'll go with a pair of those.

 

 

Also had another go at a tubing arrangement. More complicated but it would mean the pump won't be dumping heat into the water before hitting a block and cooling will happen in travels between blocks. Thoughts?

Posted Image

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that is the ideal layout as far as water temps to the blocks goes but its hard to know how much difference it will make there may only be ~.5c difference in the water temp after its been past the pump and cpu if the flow rate is good

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that is the ideal layout as far as water temps to the blocks goes but its hard to know how much difference it will make there may only be ~.5c difference in the water temp after its been past the pump and cpu if the flow rate is good

+1

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oh and dont get those 800rpm s-flex i suggested above apparently they make a ticking noise that the rest of the s-flex dont make

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Do have a squiz at this.

 

http://www.techreaction.net/2010/09/24/gaming-in-tight-spaces-part-2%E2%80%93-max11l-featuring-corsair-and-gigabyte/

 

When I end up with some money I need a NAS box, then I'll consider converting my desktop to SFF with a H70 on it or something and a new gpu (poor ol 4890).

 

@tunsky The limit isn't just lack of knowledge. Water cooling is so costly $_$. And decent gear seems even more costly again. Pre-built water can't hold a flame to big air so unless you build custom (yay expensive), you're just throwing money down the drain (except for special circumstances like this :p).

 

I run my i5 750 at 70 degrees 24/7 (which is a 4ghz oc). I'm waiting for any degradation. Doubt I'll see any for a few years though and then it'll be obsolete. Electromigration happens no matter what you do. Dunno why you need lower temps unless you're going for really high clocks. I wouldn't bother watercooling my chip at all. It wont boot past 4.6 (though this is probably my mobo bitching about 216bclk) at < 1.5 vcore and I probably wouldn't give it any more than that. Anything less, big air handles regardless. Water is about the last upgrade I'd get I think. It gives the least performance for the money invested ($300+). Having said that - apparently Gulftown degrades hell fast when OC'd. Perhaps it's worth having on water.

Edited by turk

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Interesting find turk. Looks like he kinda used the idea I had with my SG05 to mount a HDD over the mobo area.

 

@Dasa - Nah I'm going the 1800rpm GTs and turn them down, I think the s-flex's had sleeve bearings, so low life spans which I don't want.

 

Started ordering some things yesterday. Case, mobo, rads, fans, PSU, rad+pump bay thing, ODD and some other things. Will post up some images when I get them all. Between now and HD6990 launch (not to mention waiting for full cover block) will give me some time to lay it out and hopefully get things measured and fitted.

 

Haven't ordered tubing yet, want to get a nice colour scheme going in it, but I suck at doing that sort of thing. Seeing as most components I'm ordering are black I'm thinking black everywhere with red highlights (red being on the mobo already I guess I'll just run with it). Bad yeah, going by my previous sad efforts and the confined space it may still turn out fugly. Any suggestions on this area?

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s-flex have a fluid dynamic bearing while it may be similar to a sleeve in that it makes less noise than a ball bearing fan it has a longer lifespan than most fans including the gentle typhoon

i have tried turning down my 1850gt a bit they dont really get much quieter as the bearing noise is still there

 

gt

MTBF 100,000 h / 35°C or 60,000 h / 60°C

*1,850 rpm Model 55,000 h / 60°C

s-flex

* 150,000 hours of MTBF is measured under the 25C (77F) ambient temperature.

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:S so the GTs don't get quieter when you turn them down? Is the bearing noise still rather noticeable over just HDDs/PSU etc? How much did you turn them down by?

 

My Ultra Kaze 2000rpm fans I tested out by themselves the other day, and at 5v they're pretty quiet.

Oh, just had a look and they're sleeve bearing apparently :\

 

I'll do some more reading on the s-flex's. Good thing PCCG has just introduced their new change order before it ships feature on their site :)

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its not much louder than the hdd if you turn them down then you can hear the hdd but only just

not sure how much i slowed them down just stuck them on a old fan controller with 2 out of 4 dead channels but they didnt seem to slow down much so maybe it doesnt work well with fans that draw so little power

also have some 1450rpm gt and they sound much the same just slightly quieter difference between them is very small

dont get me wrong i love my gt's they provide a good amount of pressure thew a 10fpi rad then threw my case and there not loud there just not quiet

might try one at 5v away from my pc

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might try one at 5v away from my pc

If you could that'd be great. Have you an s-flex to compare against?

 

 

I'm just wanting some fans that I can set to barely audible and get away with regular gaming, without having to turn them up. Having two 3x120mm rads I'd imagine will help due to surface area. OC/benching obviously I'd turn them up briefly but that's ok.

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ok at 5v they are both very quiet

the 1600rpm s-flex makes a deep sound slightly pulsing it can only be heard from ~ 1 foot away after than i cant hear it

the gt 1850rpm i can hear from ~4 meters away it makes a slightly higher pitch ball bearing noise and is so free spinning that even at 5v after its turned off it keeps spinning for several seconds

wonder what rpm they do at 5v

 

edit

gt 1850rpm 5v 740rpm

s-flex 1600rpm 5v 570rpm

Edited by Dasa

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Nice, thanks Dasa. The PC will be at arms length from me so I guess I need to revise my fan choice.

 

Just read this.

The caveats against sleeve bearing fans are...

 

* Don't use them in any orientation other than vertical. Not only do they not last as long, they quite often make more noise in positions other than vertical.

* Don't expect them to last as long in very hot conditions. Ball bearing fans in the same hot conditions will last longer though they get noisier

Does the s-flex get louder when horizontal (pushing air upwards)? (the way I'll be mounting them)

Maybe the fluid dynamic bearings aren't affected as much as pure sleeve bearings?

 

Edit: also found this. Ultra Kaze 2000 at 5v makes about 20 dBA@ 1m @1060 RPM and pushes 29 CFM

Mine at 5v was pretty darn quiet.

 

Edit 2: 1,600rpm s-flex seems to push more air too at the 20dBA point.

 

I'll just go some 1600rpm s-flex's and try em out. If they're not good enough I'll look at other fan options later. People seem to suggest the FDB fans are ok horizontally so they should be ok.

Edited by mark84

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hey mark ive got 2 3000 rpm scythe Ultra Kaze's if you need, no i idea what they sound like turned down tho.

 

edit: they're fucking quiet turned down, wow. i re-like them lol

 

and i just bought another two antec tri cool green led fans for my new rad gah.

Edited by tunksy

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Nice, thanks Dasa. The PC will be at arms length from me so I guess I need to revise my fan choice.

 

Just read this.

The caveats against sleeve bearing fans are...

 

* Don't use them in any orientation other than vertical. Not only do they not last as long, they quite often make more noise in positions other than vertical.

* Don't expect them to last as long in very hot conditions. Ball bearing fans in the same hot conditions will last longer though they get noisier

Does the s-flex get louder when horizontal (pushing air upwards)? (the way I'll be mounting them)

Maybe the fluid dynamic bearings aren't affected as much as pure sleeve bearings?

 

Edit: also found this. Ultra Kaze 2000 at 5v makes about 20 dBA@ 1m @1060 RPM and pushes 29 CFM

Mine at 5v was pretty darn quiet.

 

Edit 2: 1,600rpm s-flex seems to push more air too at the 20dBA point.

 

I'll just go some 1600rpm s-flex's and try em out. If they're not good enough I'll look at other fan options later. People seem to suggest the FDB fans are ok horizontally so they should be ok.

 

Could always get Noctua's for around the same price. Not sure what kind of bearing Noiseblockers are on either, but they do 53CFM@~20dB if I recall correctly.

 

EDIT: I think its because they come in good 4packs for 60 bucks. And are comparable to p12's etc.

Edited by turk

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Nice, thanks Dasa. The PC will be at arms length from me so I guess I need to revise my fan choice.

 

Just read this.

The caveats against sleeve bearing fans are...

 

* Don't use them in any orientation other than vertical. Not only do they not last as long, they quite often make more noise in positions other than vertical.

* Don't expect them to last as long in very hot conditions. Ball bearing fans in the same hot conditions will last longer though they get noisier

Does the s-flex get louder when horizontal (pushing air upwards)? (the way I'll be mounting them)

Maybe the fluid dynamic bearings aren't affected as much as pure sleeve bearings?

 

Edit: also found this. Ultra Kaze 2000 at 5v makes about 20 dBA@ 1m @1060 RPM and pushes 29 CFM

Mine at 5v was pretty darn quiet.

 

Edit 2: 1,600rpm s-flex seems to push more air too at the 20dBA point.

 

I'll just go some 1600rpm s-flex's and try em out. If they're not good enough I'll look at other fan options later. People seem to suggest the FDB fans are ok horizontally so they should be ok.

 

Could always get Noctua's for around the same price. Not sure what kind of bearing Noiseblockers are on either, but they do 53CFM@~20dB if I recall correctly.

 

oh yea that reminds me everyone on ocau seems to rave about noise blockers as rad fans.

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Nice, thanks Dasa. The PC will be at arms length from me so I guess I need to revise my fan choice.

 

Just read this.

The caveats against sleeve bearing fans are...

 

* Don't use them in any orientation other than vertical. Not only do they not last as long, they quite often make more noise in positions other than vertical.

* Don't expect them to last as long in very hot conditions. Ball bearing fans in the same hot conditions will last longer though they get noisier

Does the s-flex get louder when horizontal (pushing air upwards)? (the way I'll be mounting them)

Maybe the fluid dynamic bearings aren't affected as much as pure sleeve bearings?

 

Edit: also found this. Ultra Kaze 2000 at 5v makes about 20 dBA@ 1m @1060 RPM and pushes 29 CFM

Mine at 5v was pretty darn quiet.

 

Edit 2: 1,600rpm s-flex seems to push more air too at the 20dBA point.

 

I'll just go some 1600rpm s-flex's and try em out. If they're not good enough I'll look at other fan options later. People seem to suggest the FDB fans are ok horizontally so they should be ok.

 

Could always get Noctua's for around the same price. Not sure what kind of bearing Noiseblockers are on either, but they do 53CFM@~20dB if I recall correctly.

 

EDIT: I think its because they come in good 4packs for 60 bucks. And are comparable to p12's etc.

 

the f12s you can get for $8.80 each, so $35 for 4.

 

and they're rated slightly better by according to the manufacturer.

 

 

 

 

 

also great quoting there, normco

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