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Virtuoso

"Consoles Are Holding PC Games Back" - Crysis Devs

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Brilliant poem, Virt, I missed it the first time.

 

I'm glad Crytek announced this.

 

I had a huge rant in the crysis2 thread about how shit it looks and will be for PC, and how it's in the city so it can run on consoles.

 

Now they confirm it.

 

Definite bargain bin for me!

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Tis a sad time for pc gamers. The industry has grown gigantically over the past decade but with that much of the love was lost. Think of all the great games that started off as mods: portal, team fortress 2, Counter Strike, dota. I don't think there will be anymore of that.

 

The pc gaming community has also been something significant. As mentioned before, creating mods, hosting servers, keeping games that are years old and have since had many sequels alive. I still see full servers for battlefield 2 and i wouldn't be suprised if it were the same for battlefield 1942. It's things like these you won't get on a console.

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I don't know why consoles haven't taken over more of the PC world - they already support keyboard/mouse, so with a decent browser they could more or less relegate the PC to the office and "niche" gamer population. Given webmail, Google Docs and Office Live - really the reasons to have a PC would start regressing back to workstation-type applications and MMOs.

 

I wouldn't see a problem with consoles being the devs' platform of choice if kb/m controls were as available and flexible as they are on PC. Existing products like the Logitech DiNovo Edge and various stable-table "lapdesk" products make kb/m more sofa-friendly. And at a price far below that of upgrading my rig for StarCraft 2, I'd have no problem with a thoughtfully-done console port!

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In 2005 I was running an AMD XP 2800+ 1gb ram and a 6600GT, not high end, was a generation or so behind, but it would have gotten flattened by the 360.

I didn't have my own PC in 2005, used the family PC (which changed from a PIII 800 to a Celeron D 2.66 sometime around then, and recently to a Pentium E6300)

 

In 2006 I had a Pentium MMX 200, 256MB RAM, Riva TNT2 M64 PCI 32MB, 10GB HDD, CD-RW and 98SE (way behind the times)

 

In 2007, I had 2 PC's, the best being a Pentium 4 2.4GHz, 1GB RAM, Radeon 9600 Pro 256MB, 40GB HDD, DVD-RW and XP Home (still not good)

 

In 2008, I had a Pentium 4 3.0GHz, 2GB RAM, Radeon 9600 Pro 256MB, 80GB HDD, DVD-RW and XP Pro (not much better)

 

In 2009, I got my first brand new PC, being an Athlon 64 X2 6400+ (which was being phased out), 4GB RAM, Radeon HD 4670 512MB, 250GB HDD, DVD-RW and Xp Pro (something quite good in my books)

 

And you'd all know what I'm running today

 

So if anything, I personally was holding games back :P (though I do believe it is coming time for consoles to upgraded)

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I've never personally owned a console.

 

I've been waiting too long for Microsoft to release an Xbox with a blu-ray drive.

 

I can't bring myself to buy a PS3 and I don't see the point in buying an Xbox without the ability to play Blu-Rays.

 

Otherwise I'm happy with my PC, it does every damn thing I want it to. (or I can add the capability with ease)

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I think the problem that nearly everyone seems to missing is not that consoles are, at present, underpowered compared with the average gaming PC, but that gaming itself is changing in its focus.

 

PC games have, historically, been where the limits are pushed technologically. Since Ultima Underworld was released there has always, until quite recently, been at least one PC game which looks better than anything else on the market and runs like a dg on anything but the most powerful system. Crysis, the closest to this today, will now run fairly well on a low budget gaming PC, and there has been nothing to take its crown.

 

Console games are now dominant in almost every traditional genre, from shooters, to racing games. Only in the niches of hardcore sims, MMOs and Real Time Strategy does the PC remain the dominant platform. As has been previously mentioned, this is because of a generation which began gaming on PC with titles like DOOM growing up and not having the time to expend on maintaining a formidable gaming system, combined with what could be called the 'Call Of Duty generation' and its rapid uptake of this generation's shooters and other games thanks to the new accessibility to online play that the PS3 and 360 provide.

 

But even now I'm noticing this generations console gamers getting frustrated. Sure, they're getting a new shooter or six catering to them primarily every year, platform specific DLC by the boatload, and a whole lot more.

 

But, the console developers, Sony and Microsoft, are even neglecting them. Instead, the focus is on the emerging casual market, dominated by the Wii, DS and iPhone. So, instead of getting improvements in their periphery or their hardware, they're getting motion control gimmicks with no relevance to them, and online services with no relevance to, well, anyone, really (Playstation Home, anyone?)

 

In reference to the comments from Crytek, while the PC may be a generation ahead, is the next generation going to see a huge improvement in hardware? Sure, Full HD support will improve. Graphics will probably improve a bit. But if current trends continue, the focus won't be on improving the services valued by the 'hardcore' market, but on improving accessibility by the casual market.

 

Now, I'm not too worried by the present state of PC gaming. Why? Because if the next generation of consoles does focus on the casual market, you know where this generation's 'hardcore' will migrate? The PC. In the same way that, in the late 90s, games like Quake and the emerging competitive multiplayer scene caused a boom in PC gamers, I'm expecting these gamers to take up the PC eagerly. The PC has everything they have with the current generation, plus everything they want and that Sony and Microsoft are not supplying.

 

The argument that the PC will fall to being a platform of browser games and simple titles, to me, falls flat. There is always someone who is willing to push a platform. Even now, the hardcore simulation developers would never migrate to the console. The platforms are too underpowered and lack the versatility needed for a realistic experience. Similarly, the most complex independent titles are those which embrace the idiosyncrasies of the PC. Minecraft would never have worked on console. And modding communities, despite what the general opinion in this thread seems to be, are as successful as ever. Games now are more complex, so mod development cycles will be longer. But the popularity of modding with games like Oblivion and Half Life 2 is proof that modding certainly isn't 'dieing'.

 

To conclude simply. Consoles aren't holding PC games back, any more than the casual market is holding hardcore gaming back.

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thank goodness im studing game devlopment...so i can one day make games for PC that are modable,are able to push PC's limits etc...

 

the one thing i hope is that game devs start to realise that PC is the "place to be" for orginal game ideas! and isnt just a small "niche" market!

Edited by jdog

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PC games have, historically, been where the limits are pushed technologically. Since Ultima Underworld was released there has always, until quite recently, been at least one PC game which looks better than anything else on the market and runs like a dg on anything but the most powerful system. Crysis, the closest to this today, will now run fairly well on a low budget gaming PC, and there has been nothing to take its crown.

I personally don't think crysis looks that great, take for example some parts of the Stalker games look much more realistic especially with sunshafts, rain actually interacts with the game world ect like some parts of Pripyat in COP look stunning, you could almost take a screenshot and it would look like a picture.

 

thank goodness im studing game devlopment...so i can one day make games for PC that are modable,are able to push PC's limits etc...

 

the one thing i hope is that game devs start to realise that PC is the "place to be" for orginal game ideas! and isnt just a small "niche" market!

the most you'll be coding for short term is probably whatever replaces Xbox360 as a lot of PC games now are direct ports to save money.

 

I tried my hand at coding and thought fuck this its to hard especially with a teacher that thought java was my main language and I was born knowing how to code for it -_-

Edited by nesquick

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In 2005 I was running an AMD XP 2800+ 1gb ram and a 6600GT, not high end, was a generation or so behind, but it would have gotten flattened by the 360.

OMG, I was running that too. till about a month ago.

actualy, I had maxed out the ram at 2GB.

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PC games have, historically, been where the limits are pushed technologically. Since Ultima Underworld was released there has always, until quite recently, been at least one PC game which looks better than anything else on the market and runs like a dg on anything but the most powerful system. Crysis, the closest to this today, will now run fairly well on a low budget gaming PC, and there has been nothing to take its crown.

I personally don't think crysis looks that great, take for example some parts of the Stalker games look much more realistic especially with sunshafts, rain actually interacts with the game world ect like some parts of Pripyat in COP look stunning, you could almost take a screenshot and it would look like a picture.

 

Yeah, I mainly used Crysis as an example. I personally think the engine gives everything a very plastic look, even more than Unreal Engine 3. That's why I said 'the closest to this today', since it's got the highest system requirements of anything on the market, even though opinions on its actual appearance vary.

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PC games have, historically, been where the limits are pushed technologically. Since Ultima Underworld was released there has always, until quite recently, been at least one PC game which looks better than anything else on the market and runs like a dg on anything but the most powerful system. Crysis, the closest to this today, will now run fairly well on a low budget gaming PC, and there has been nothing to take its crown.

I personally don't think crysis looks that great, take for example some parts of the Stalker games look much more realistic especially with sunshafts, rain actually interacts with the game world ect like some parts of Pripyat in COP look stunning, you could almost take a screenshot and it would look like a picture.

 

thank goodness im studing game devlopment...so i can one day make games for PC that are modable,are able to push PC's limits etc...

 

the one thing i hope is that game devs start to realise that PC is the "place to be" for orginal game ideas! and isnt just a small "niche" market!

the most you'll be coding for short term is probably whatever replaces Xbox360 as a lot of PC games now are direct ports to save money.

 

I tried my hand at coding and thought fuck this its to hard especially with a teacher that thought java was my main language and I was born knowing how to code for it -_-

 

C++ and java is a pain in the ass to get your head round if you have never dont it before,kinda fun once you do!

 

lucky for me im focusing on animation instead...much easier

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Is it a matter of the PC market reducing or that the consol market has exploded.

All the PC gamers I know play Consol.

Lots of people I know that would not know the front of a PC fromt he back, play consol.

 

it's piss easy to access the fun.

and consol game developers are caterign to the computer iliterates and getting lots more cash out of them.

there is no stigma associated with them. Consol games are not nerdy like the PC port is.

 

http://www.amazingsuperpowers.com/ee/2009-11-09.jpg

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PC games have, historically, been where the limits are pushed technologically. Since Ultima Underworld was released there has always, until quite recently, been at least one PC game which looks better than anything else on the market and runs like a dg on anything but the most powerful system. Crysis, the closest to this today, will now run fairly well on a low budget gaming PC, and there has been nothing to take its crown.

I personally don't think crysis looks that great, take for example some parts of the Stalker games look much more realistic especially with sunshafts, rain actually interacts with the game world ect like some parts of Pripyat in COP look stunning, you could almost take a screenshot and it would look like a picture.

 

thank goodness im studing game devlopment...so i can one day make games for PC that are modable,are able to push PC's limits etc...

 

the one thing i hope is that game devs start to realise that PC is the "place to be" for orginal game ideas! and isnt just a small "niche" market!

the most you'll be coding for short term is probably whatever replaces Xbox360 as a lot of PC games now are direct ports to save money.

 

I tried my hand at coding and thought fuck this its to hard especially with a teacher that thought java was my main language and I was born knowing how to code for it -_-

 

C++ and java is a pain in the ass to get your head round if you have never dont it before,kinda fun once you do!

 

lucky for me im focusing on animation instead...much easier

 

Java is easy ;)

C++ is harder; I think I get my first unit of that next semester.

Ugh, forced to do memory management and built in functions that are in shorthand, as well as the many different ways to access stuff.

 

Give me Java/C#/AS3 withTheAbilityToHaveStupidlyLongVariableAndFunctionNamesThatAreVeryDescriptiveAn

dPartiallyNegateTheNeedForComments

Edited by Charcoal

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that is true,but the one thing you have to whatch out for is spelling and grammer!

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that is true,but the one thing you have to whatch out for is spelling and grammer!

Which you should still be looking out for when typing comments!

 

Also, autocomplete ;)

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“[The] PC is easily a generation ahead right now. With 360 and PS3, we believe the quality of the games beyond Crysis 2 and other CryEngine developments will be pretty much limited to what their creative expressions is, what the content is. You won’t be able to squeeze more juice from these rocks.”

The Xbox 360 was released in November 2005. And its only one generation behind? I'd say thats pretty impressive.

 

[edit]

 

I just googled "Typical PC specs from 2005" and got this:

 

Windows XP

1ghz - 2ghz Processor

256mb - 512mb RAM

2nd or 3rd gen video card

15" - 17" monitor

dvd or dvd/r/rw (older would have a cd/r/rw)

40gb - 80gb Harddrive

1024x768 screen res

 

That is hilarious.

 

 

'

 

Easily a generation behind. So could be two!

 

And to look at the current average setup:

 

http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey

 

If you want to get a better idea on what specs were "average" in 2005

 

http://gigaom.com/valve-steam-survey-repor...eir-components/

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back when the xbox came out i was really hopping it wouldnt take as much from pc gaming as it did but i dont think it was alone as i know a lot of pc gamers got swallowed up by wow for a fair while which could have hurt the sales of other pc games

 

as for how many gen behind they are

xbox360 and ps3 are at dx9 level of graphics we have now moved from dx10 to dx11 so its about two gen behind there

the improvement of dx10 wasnt much other than more natural lighting but dx11 is mind blowing thanks mostly to tessellation

 

xbox 360 is x1900 based and ps3 is 7900gt based both with ~ 256-512m memory total im not real sure how they balance it

in comparison to the standard for high end gpus is currently 1-1.5g and is moving to 2g now with 4g ram currently moving to 8g as a standard (mmm sexy sharp textures)

since the x1900 there as been 2900xt 3870 4870 5870 6870 from ati and similar a lineup from nvidia so a lot more than 2 gen behind on the gpu front even if they weren't all huge changes

 

3 months after the release of the xbox 360 i was running a opteron 170 x1900xtx 512m 2x1g ram so one less cpu core but faster over all especially with overclocking

using my 1920x1200 24" monitor that i had for ~ a year at that stage and before that it was a 19" 1600x1200 crt

Edited by Dasa

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Both 7 and Vista are horrible for things like hardware acceleration MS is killing us to replace with a console Need Xp64 on DX11 be nice shame about drivers etc cause I miss Xp directx Hardware Sound in games and whats happend to games Opengl or Directx in games now, Its all about XBOX or its Ps3 only really FPS games need a Blend,

A game that unites all 3 PC XBOX PS3 in one Giant FPS battle and see where the chips fall and see what's the best hardware to play on and win.

 

Also...

Since Project Offset traitors sold up to INTEL (Child Labour Camp Owners) me hopes Fractiv llc(Old offset team) builds again, The whole Idea of using all available Techniques in moderation to achieve renders with more life and to balance out performance for the weaker Gpus/Cpus instead of just having SUPER MASSIVE BLACKHOLE type textures in games would've been great on PC but that ended thank you all mighty dollar,

And whats with Nvidia anybody using an AMD card without a FizX or Cooda on a Nshitia GPU as secondary with Driver hack gets ripped off in performance or quality with some titles because Nshitia wants to dominate what we buy Control FREAKS,

Nvidia caused a divide in gaming by funding game creators and giving game creators hardware to use and theres no doub't their using INTELS Dirty tricks by putting in a condition for use like If the game is made on Nvidia hardware or with Nvidia funding it must contain Nvidia FizX and or Cooda plus the Video HIMTBP or they must cripple other Manufacturers cards by adding performance inhibiting code which seems to get patched a while after release so a magical patches always appears when sales are down Nvidia Controlling anyone ???????.

What?

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