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Haha. I hope to hear some really high end stuff and barely be able to tell the difference. I was listening to some Sanders electrostatics in a hifi shop and I’d love to get to that sort of sound. Maybe a DAC and some planar headphones. Then I’ll be done for sure........

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16 minutes ago, fliptopia said:

Haha. I hope to hear some really high end stuff and barely be able to tell the difference. I was listening to some Sanders electrostatics in a hifi shop and I’d love to get to that sort of sound. Maybe a DAC and some planar headphones. Then I’ll be done for sure........

 

sadly you will probably hear the difference, and regret that knowledge

 

once you start, i predict you won't be done till you die, or go deaf

 

 

the secret i think is to avoid too much opportunity to recognise what improvement is available

 

ha!  ozpost suggest the stoner dac arrives tomorrow - god bless a third iteration of non-soundcard dac in my possession; as i understand it the panam is a wolfson, and the stoner is texas industries, so i have a nice range of alternative families to compare

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🙂

 

The pursuit of the "Absolute Sound" can indeed be a curse scruffy.

 

That's why there is a magazine by that name, some of the stuff they review has price tags that make your eyes bleed.

 

Personally I quire deliberately stopped being so analytical about it years ago, selling such exotica as Apogee ribbon speakers and Threshold amplifiers had me more than frustrated.

 

Headphones are one was to get tantalizingly close to the real thing because you have taken away the room effect.

 

But as I recall reading in said magazine a long time ago it is very difficult to properly define what is the "real sound" anyway. The author was talking about how disappointed he was in a live performance of a particular classical piece and how he went home and enjoyed it much more on a not totally OTT Hi-Fi system.

 

In the end if you manage to extract all the detail that there is on the recording in as linear a form as possible then you can't do much more.

 

It was amusing in the early days of CD when some analogue recordings were transferred to the medium. People stated hearing such things as subway trains that had not been at all apparent in earlier vinyl releases. It had always been there but you needed a very, very good cartridge/arm/table combination to pick it out. CD had, and still has to some degree, its faults but a mediocre player could easily extract that sort of thing and if you had an ok amp and speakers you would hear it.

 

I wont get into the eternal Vinyl versus CD debate but early CDs were very harsh, clinical perhaps, good vinyl has a "warmth" to it that is very difficult to define but it does explain the resurgence of vinyl, which also has many many actual and potential problems, that is going on.

 

CD players have come a long way, even cheap ones these days do better than the early stuff, but strangely so have tables and cartridges whilst also becoming more affordable.

 

I'm not sure it matters much, most of the world is perfectly happy streaming these days anyway.

 

But there will always be some people who have the monkey on their back to get the best possible sound. It appears you are afflicted, you have my sympathies as a recovering addict  🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

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not so much afflicted as enraptured

 

funnily the purists are all busy having a pissing match on the ess line of dac chips because of a "hump" in the mid frequencies - i suspect if they got a hump they wouldn't need to be such wankers about a non-event

 

reading clinical analysis of output seems to me the "scientists" of those seeking "perfection" are too fixated on looking at the graph when ears are for hearing, not eyes

 

as the quote (attributed to martin mull) quite rightly notes :  “Writing about music is like dancing about architecture.”

 

 

my experience is not usefully able to tell someone else what they'll hear, but rather that i can hear a difference, and consider it a better experience than the comparator

 

lucky for me that after such epiphanies, i simply settle in and listen to several thousand songs and then due to my concentration span  and distractability,  have long since gone off on some other tangent completely removed from audiophile pursuits - designing a flying thing / flashing some hardware / pondering on someone's article or art

 

each of which i pursue with similar passion till the next thing surprises me

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🙂

 

Just as well you have other distractions then.

 

I know a few people for whom audio is their entire life, fortunately most of them make a living doing it.

 

Cheers

 

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20 hours ago, scruffy1 said:

 

 

mmmmmmm.... comfy lounge  💤

Hell yes!!  Last one we had was a shit modular one - do you know exactly how much stuff gets lost in between those bastard things?  And the springs went after only 6 months Grrrr - so we've been putting up with it and then this one was brought to our attention - bloody great deal we just couldn't pass up.

 

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🙂

 

Nice one Dev - you work hard, only fair you get to relax on a proper couch   🙂

 

Cheers

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yeah, my other half chose an almost $3k L shaped divan thing that converts to a passably comfy double bed with a fold out base

 

but left intact, it will sleep two people as long as one of them is short, or doesn't mind being propped up a bit

 

 

i was initially unimpressed, but time has proven it was not over-rated - it's a decade old this year and still comfy as ever

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23 minutes ago, scruffy1 said:

yeah, my other half chose an almost $3k L shaped divan thing that converts to a passably comfy double bed with a fold out base

 

but left intact, it will sleep two people as long as one of them is short, or doesn't mind being propped up a bit

 

 

i was initially unimpressed, but time has proven it was not over-rated - it's a decade old this year and still comfy as ever

 

Yeah, we bought some from plush and they were expensive and 10 years later are just as comfy and look used but not looking like they're needing anything done if yiu know what I mean. 

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5 hours ago, DEVERE said:

Hell yes!!  Last one we had was a shit modular one - do you know exactly how much stuff gets lost in between those bastard things?  And the springs went after only 6 months Grrrr - so we've been putting up with it and then this one was brought to our attention - bloody great deal we just couldn't pass up.

 

 

tell me something, since i guess youre fresh form auditioning other options.  why do so many lounge designs have firm jutting headrests that force your head forward at an unnatural angle like they were designed by and for hunchbacks? 

 

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🙂

 

I HAD a very nice L shaped one - lent it to one of my daughters and the little bugger gave it away 🙂

 

Dunno @th, often wondered that myself.

 

Cheers

 

 

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hey,  the other dac arrived, the stoner acoustics ud110v2

 

looks for all the world like a naked usb stick with a 1/8" headphone jack perpendicular to the long axis

 

sounds ridiculously good for the simplicity, although you need software volume control, or an amp - but it drives both the ad700's and akg701  direct, and i can use the volume setting in neutron to do the honours.. and sounds better still with the cmoy amp

 

3OixilkA7LQVa-uLAdJBjalvKa1OUlqulgBY4FAz

 

 

Full Tech Specs:

  1. RECEIVER : SA9027 
  2. LDO : LP5907
  3. CLOCK: AK8133E
  4. DAC : PCM5102A - Texas Industries 2VRMS DirectPath™, 112dB Audio Stereo DAC with 32-bit, 384kHz PCM Interface
  5. OUTPUT : 2Vrms @ 10kohm load
  6. RESOLUTION : 16/32bit @ 44.1/48/88.2/96Khz
  7. SPECIAL FEATURES : Comes with ASIO driver for windows.
  8. Works with Windows 32/64 with native driver. (Plug and Play)
  9. Works with Mac Os supporting Playback @ 16/32bit:44.1/48/88.2/96kHz
  10. Works with Android devices that support OTG USB

way too much fun for the money  🙂

38 minutes ago, @~thehung said:

 

tell me something, since i guess youre fresh form auditioning other options.  why do so many lounge designs have firm jutting headrests that force your head forward at an unnatural angle like they were designed by and for hunchbacks? 

 

 

ours is low-ish at the back with no headrest, but plenty of opportunity to use the soft pillow on top, and propped by the wall behind to create neck support

 

 

i entirely agree that a headrest is useless unless it's a bespoke design

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🙂

 

 

I had to hunt around but I did find a pair of those Sanders electrostatics that you mentioned to have a listen to flip - purely academic interest, I've not heard any electrostatics for decades, probably Maggies were the last, way back when.

 

Very, very impressive, especially for the price - way out of my bracket for any foreseeable future  but actually very good value if you only use a single source or don't mind swapping cable and a lifetime warranty, on electrostats, is just incredible.

 

About the only negative I could find was they do have a very tight sweet spot.

 

However if you are in pursuit of similar sound for some tiny fraction of the cost and are happy to do that with headphones then that hardly matters 🙂

 

I don't know what a pair of really good 'phones run to these days but loose change I'm sure compared to these.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, chrisg said:

🙂

 

 

I had to hunt around but I did find a pair of those Sanders electrostatics that you mentioned to have a listen to flip - purely academic interest, I've not heard any electrostatics for decades, probably Maggies were the last, way back when.

 

Very, very impressive, especially for the price - way out of my bracket for any foreseeable future  but actually very good value if you only use a single source or don't mind swapping cable and a lifetime warranty, on electrostats, is just incredible.

 

About the only negative I could find was they do have a very tight sweet spot.

 

However if you are in pursuit of similar sound for some tiny fraction of the cost and are happy to do that with headphones then that hardly matters 🙂

 

I don't know what a pair of really good 'phones run to these days but loose change I'm sure compared to these.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes the speakers are really for one person to truly enjoy due to the very localised sweet spot so you might as well have headphones. You can get some ok planars for $600ish. A nice dac and amp and you are still talking a 10th of the cost. 

 

As for head rests I think the current lounge wisdom is pushing the head forward as you recline so you can lean back and still see the tele. Either that or it's in case your loungeroom is rear ended by a car so you don't get whiplash. 

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🙂

 

Strange - I haven't sold Hi -Fi for 30 odd years, drifted away from the pursuit of great sound maybe 25 years ago but a good pair of headphones still seem to cost about the same as they did then.

 

I have a pair of Sennheiser (sp ?) HD-414s that I bought about then, they still sound pretty good to me 🙂

 

You are quite correct of course, only one person at a time can really enjoy those speakers, they beam somewhat too much for me.

 

My brother who is probably more of a fanatic for good sound that I am bought some Sonabs way back, perhaps 40 years ago. They've had drivers replaced,  padding re-packed, been painted etc but he just will not part with them they are just too good in his view and their sound stage is enormous.

 

To each their own, in my case I built my own long time back and they suit me - however it is quite possible I'm a leedle bit deaf, even though hearing tests say otherwise - too much time around jets I suspect has impacted my awareness of upper registers  🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/12/2019 at 5:26 AM, chrisg said:

Headphones are one way to get tantalizingly close to the real thing because you have taken away the room effect.

 

well yeah, but its ever a double-edged sword, innit!

 

unfortunately with most mixes, which have not been created exclusively for cans, you are closer to the "true" sound when a requisite amount of direct left speaker sound is able to enter your right ear, and vice versa.  all things being equal, that can be the most significant factor for fidelity, even beyond the positives/negatives of your meatsack body in the acoustics of your own particular listening space (sure to add variously delayed and low-pass filtered reflections from either speaker to each ear).  its a fucking mess!

 

a mix EQed and panned with surgical precision over studio monitors can sound gobsmackingly good in the room whilst astoundingly narrow and lifeless over headphones.   conversely, a perfect headphone mix played through speakers is often a blurry cacophony of bullshit that is far worse.  it sucks, but good mixing and mastering is the science of degrading the studio sound in the least worst way to please everyone — and headphone listeners tend to get the rawest deal.

 

not to mention the most obvious missing ingredient with cans: sweet LF goodness.

 

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🙂

 

Unfortunately true @th. Some of the best classical in particular recordings from the early era of stereo in particular are positively bizarre in terms of the stage being all over the place and the better the speakers the more peculiar it can  become.

 

It took sound engineers a long time to learn that in general the simpler the mix the better.

 

Cans certainly do also have, because of pure physics really, to forgo some of the lowest registers. I'd be the first to admit that is the case with my Senheisers.

 

It's very instructive to actually be there during a recording and see engineers at work. I've only ever managed it once but it was very eye-opening. Mixing so it all sounds wonderful on a pair of, I think they were Yamaha NS10s, or some such "near-field monitor" is all very well but hardly anybody actually listens that way.

 

The weakest link in a chain is sadly always the deciding factor in performance and all too often when pursuing the heights of audio Nirvana that will be the source, as in the recording itself.

 

Cheers

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near-fields themselves are even a partial 'real-world' compromise, versus full range far field speakers.  but for classical music in particular, whats even less achievable for most of us at home, is a pristine lack of ambient noise — so even very high quality recordings tend to get some of their full dynamic range squashed before mastering.  

 

as for simplicity, in many cases just the completely untouched recording from a single pair of hard panned mics, of say, an orchestra with taiko drums, would sound pretty great in most ordinary rooms with half decent speakers.  but the very same wouldnt sound so great played off a shitty stereo while moving about a house, or in a car, or over headphones.  versatility would demand, at a minimum, probably some room mics mixed in to liven up the reverb (at the cost of muddying the stereo image) and compression, compression, compression (until the recording is a shadow of its former glory).  again, compromises 😕

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🙂

 

Always compromise, although if you are willing, patient and have the wherewithal a lot can be done to improve the "ambience " of the room itself. I don't think it is really feasible to trick a room into being The Albert Hall, but you can improve the "sound" of the room, if you care to.

 

Personally I called a halt to that endeavour years ago and it may well explain why when push comes to shove I prefer very simple folk music or even acapella over most other forms.

 

Not always, as an old friend of mine used to say I have little taste in music, I like it all  🙂

 

(Not quite, no big fan of punk or rap.)

 

But if in the dark of the night I can listen to for example Joni Mitchel, close my eyes and almost touch her nose I assume my system and the recording are at least partly in synch  🙂

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

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On 9/13/2019 at 3:55 PM, @~thehung said:

 

tell me something, since i guess youre fresh form auditioning other options.  why do so many lounge designs have firm jutting headrests that force your head forward at an unnatural angle like they were designed by and for hunchbacks? 

 

Haha yes - I've auditioned a couple like that.  This one looks a little forward jutting, but once your head lays upon it, it is at a perfect angle.  Since we three are tall - husband 6ft 4, myself 5ft 10 and 15yr old son 6ft 4 we have very specific requirements that include head rests that are firm and upright so there is no head lolling back unless you have the recliner initiated and the length of the 3 seater must be long enough for one of us to be horizontal without being cramped. 

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