Jump to content
Trekker

Power bill 1300 ...say no to carbon tax

Recommended Posts

$25.00 per tonne of CO2.... I didn't realise the tax was going to be so low. (Seriously)

 

That amount of money means alot to business's like Blue scope steel. They manufacture the vast amount of their steel still in australia. They've already moved alot of their post and pre processing over seas much to the dislike of the company. Whilst I agree a Carbon tax needs to be put on place the big problem is, is that it dosnt put a tax on imports of carbon. Like steel and other imported products that have been produced in china where they have 0 guidelines and where cost is all that matters. Pretty much the government is saying they dont want manufacturing in australia and they want Australia to be a resource based economy.

 

"a lot"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$25.00 per tonne of CO2.... I didn't realise the tax was going to be so low. (Seriously)

 

That amount of money means alot to business's like Blue scope steel. They manufacture the vast amount of their steel still in australia. They've already moved alot of their post and pre processing over seas much to the dislike of the company. Whilst I agree a Carbon tax needs to be put on place the big problem is, is that it dosnt put a tax on imports of carbon. Like steel and other imported products that have been produced in china where they have 0 guidelines and where cost is all that matters. Pretty much the government is saying they dont want manufacturing in australia and they want Australia to be a resource based economy.

 

 

I think 'the worlds open pit mine' is the term you're looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$25.00 per tonne of CO2.... I didn't realise the tax was going to be so low. (Seriously)

 

That amount of money means alot to business's like Blue scope steel. They manufacture the vast amount of their steel still in australia. They've already moved alot of their post and pre processing over seas much to the dislike of the company. Whilst I agree a Carbon tax needs to be put on place the big problem is, is that it dosnt put a tax on imports of carbon. Like steel and other imported products that have been produced in china where they have 0 guidelines and where cost is all that matters. Pretty much the government is saying they dont want manufacturing in australia and they want Australia to be a resource based economy.

 

 

I think 'the worlds open pit mine' is the term you're looking for.

 

 

We already are. Have you ever seen a map with all the mine sites in Australia?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$25.00 per tonne of CO2.... I didn't realise the tax was going to be so low. (Seriously)

 

That amount of money means alot to business's like Blue scope steel. They manufacture the vast amount of their steel still in australia. They've already moved alot of their post and pre processing over seas much to the dislike of the company. Whilst I agree a Carbon tax needs to be put on place the big problem is, is that it dosnt put a tax on imports of carbon. Like steel and other imported products that have been produced in china where they have 0 guidelines and where cost is all that matters. Pretty much the government is saying they dont want manufacturing in australia and they want Australia to be a resource based economy.

 

 

I think 'the worlds open pit mine' is the term you're looking for.

 

We already are. Have you ever seen a map with all the mine sites in Australia?

 

The demand for minerals is what makes our economy strong. what would we trade with no minerals? boomerangs? lol

 

Last I heard we still had hundreds of years supply of Iron ore and it wasn't disappearing as fast as commodity like crude oil for other nations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$25.00 per tonne of CO2.... I didn't realise the tax was going to be so low. (Seriously)

 

That amount of money means alot to business's like Blue scope steel. They manufacture the vast amount of their steel still in australia. They've already moved alot of their post and pre processing over seas much to the dislike of the company. Whilst I agree a Carbon tax needs to be put on place the big problem is, is that it dosnt put a tax on imports of carbon. Like steel and other imported products that have been produced in china where they have 0 guidelines and where cost is all that matters. Pretty much the government is saying they dont want manufacturing in australia and they want Australia to be a resource based economy.

 

 

I think 'the worlds open pit mine' is the term you're looking for.

 

We already are. Have you ever seen a map with all the mine sites in Australia?

 

The demand for minerals is what makes our economy strong. what would we trade with no minerals? boomerangs? lol

 

Last I heard we still had hundreds of years supply of Iron ore and it wasn't disappearing as fast as commodity like crude oil for other nations.

 

Thats my point. We have nothing else worth noting when it comes to our economy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$25.00 per tonne of CO2.... I didn't realise the tax was going to be so low. (Seriously)

 

That amount of money means alot to business's like Blue scope steel. They manufacture the vast amount of their steel still in australia. They've already moved alot of their post and pre processing over seas much to the dislike of the company. Whilst I agree a Carbon tax needs to be put on place the big problem is, is that it dosnt put a tax on imports of carbon. Like steel and other imported products that have been produced in china where they have 0 guidelines and where cost is all that matters.

Indeed, in places where they do not have such a trading scheme in place, the importer should be taxed as if the article were produced on-shore, with the additional tax of the carbon emitted in bringing it here. It'll make imports heinously expensive, but maybe it might bring manufacturing on-shore again, which will mean more jobs.

 

Pretty much the government is saying they dont want manufacturing in australia and they want Australia to be a resource based economy.

Yep, and if we keep on that path, we'll be like Nauru.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$25.00 per tonne of CO2.... I didn't realise the tax was going to be so low. (Seriously)

 

That amount of money means alot to business's like Blue scope steel. They manufacture the vast amount of their steel still in australia. They've already moved alot of their post and pre processing over seas much to the dislike of the company. Whilst I agree a Carbon tax needs to be put on place the big problem is, is that it dosnt put a tax on imports of carbon. Like steel and other imported products that have been produced in china where they have 0 guidelines and where cost is all that matters.

Indeed, in places where they do not have such a trading scheme in place, the importer should be taxed as if the article were produced on-shore, with the additional tax of the carbon emitted in bringing it here. It'll make imports heinously expensive, but maybe it might bring manufacturing on-shore again, which will mean more jobs.

 

Problem is we are less competitive on the world market by that method.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wut?

 

stop being so wasteful with electricity.

 

Why is it "wasteful" with electricity? … If you’re paying for a service why can you not consume as much as you like? What I disagree with is the mentality that “heavy users” should be taxed harder just because they consume more. My power bill was around $1200 a quarter also when i lived in NSW.. 2 story house.. 20kw of aircon running 24/7 most of the year.. Spa ect..

Smart meters are a "joke".. And it’s only going to get worst.. The electricity companies have been gouging money from everyone for years and neglected to invest in the infrastructure to meet the supply and demand. So rather than invest in improving the infrastructure so that everyone can be a “heavy user” ..or simply turn the aircon on when its a hot day.. They are pushing for everyone to reduce their usage and “encouraging” them by charging ridicules peek usage fees during peek time.. could you imagine if they did this for your other utility’s.. Like the internet? Imagine if all of a sudden your ISP started to charge you more every time there network go congested.. in blocks of 15mins.. All of a sudden you started paying $2 a meg rather than 20cents a meg .. Just because everyone wanted to download something at the same time and they didn’t have a network that could handle it. Think summer time when everyone wants to use .. an aircon .. these changes are coming .. and it will affect everyone.. big-time

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

 

the smart meters are just the begin.. how fun will it be when the power company tells you that you can’t use your aircon on a 40+ degree day because the network can’t handle it.. or if you do use it .. they will charge you $1000’s of dollars .. for the privilege .. as power consumption is no longer a right.. since the government sold that right to private companies :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My family's bill this quarter was $1111.31 (If it were only 20c cheaper...), but that's because of the hectic use of ducted AC. I think the single ones are better in some situations - like when the whole family is in one room.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

what if people were compelled to build and buy houses that were appropriately designed for the environment they inhabit so as to use passive cooling and heating ?

 

i recognise not everyone is living in such a position, but even in australia the climate is capable of being "adjusted" without ducted aircon to every room of a sealed macmansion without eaves or any natural shade or through flow ventilation - why cool or heat a fucking warehouse when you could all settle into a common area - and at night maybe learn to lie under a wet sarong with a ceiling fan - works really really effectively at a fraction of the power use

 

even simple shit like good seals on the doors and windows, some insulation and sarking, leaving the thermostat to 24c rather than under 20 "because it's hot"

 

sorry, no sympathy for poor choices in efficiency - the cost of insulation is way less than simple ongoing overuse of aircon in a bad building

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wut?

 

stop being so wasteful with electricity.

 

Why is it "wasteful" with electricity? … If you’re paying for a service why can you not consume as much as you like? What I disagree with is the mentality that “heavy users” should be taxed harder just because they consume more. My power bill was around $1200 a quarter also when i lived in NSW.. 2 story house.. 20kw of aircon running 24/7 most of the year.. Spa ect..

Smart meters are a "joke".. And it’s only going to get worst.. The electricity companies have been gouging money from everyone for years and neglected to invest in the infrastructure to meet the supply and demand. So rather than invest in improving the infrastructure so that everyone can be a “heavy user” ..or simply turn the aircon on when its a hot day.. They are pushing for everyone to reduce their usage and “encouraging” them by charging ridicules peek usage fees during peek time.. could you imagine if they did this for your other utility’s.. Like the internet? Imagine if all of a sudden your ISP started to charge you more every time there network go congested.. in blocks of 15mins.. All of a sudden you started paying $2 a meg rather than 20cents a meg .. Just because everyone wanted to download something at the same time and they didn’t have a network that could handle it. Think summer time when everyone wants to use .. an aircon .. these changes are coming .. and it will affect everyone.. big-time

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

 

the smart meters are just the begin.. how fun will it be when the power company tells you that you can’t use your aircon on a 40+ degree day because the network can’t handle it.. or if you do use it .. they will charge you $1000’s of dollars .. for the privilege .. as power consumption is no longer a right.. since the government sold that right to private companies :).

 

again stop being so wasteful, open a fucking window for a change instead of running aircon 24/7...

 

sorry to sound harsh but if your powerbill for a single house is $1200 than you need to take a serious look at what is using it all, mine is only ever $15-160 per quater and I don't go to easy on things like clothes dryers, computers tv's ect.

Edited by nesquick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think the power bill around here gets anywhere near the $1000 mark. Apparently ours is around the $300, maybe $400 a quarter. That's with several computers running 24/7, a few incandescent lights and CRT monitors of various kinds.

 

One air conditioner in the study area (single unit) which rarely gets used, and the hot water is bottle gas.

 

What are people doing so heinously wrong to be paying so much for their electricity?

Edited by Redhatter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our bill went from $300 ish per quarter to $850ish when the meter was changed over from an extension we did. Admittedly we did have 3kW worth of off peak slab heating, so that must have added quite a bit, but we werent ready for such a big bill. (the plan is to put an extra timer for the slab heating, so we can pare down its power consumption)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how fun will it be when the power company tells you that you can’t use your aircon on a 40+ degree day because the network can’t handle it.. or if you do use it .. they will charge you $1000’s of dollars .. for the privilege .. as power consumption is no longer a right.. since the government sold that right to private companies :).

 

how fun will it be when you don't have enough power to keep your food from rotting because of enforced brownouts due to idiots squandering power to pamper themselves with aircon because they were too self indulgent to consider environmentally conscious house design ?

 

whinge all you like, because the ability to want something doesn't equate with the need for infrastructure to supply it as a right

 

the descriptor "greedy" seems apt

 

and the planet can hardly wait for the indian subcontinent to expect aircon as a standard item

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

how fun will it be when the power company tells you that you can’t use your aircon on a 40+ degree day because the network can’t handle it.. or if you do use it .. they will charge you $1000’s of dollars .. for the privilege .. as power consumption is no longer a right.. since the government sold that right to private companies :).

 

how fun will it be when you don't have enough power to keep your food from rotting because of enforced brownouts due to idiots squandering power to pamper themselves with aircon because they were too self indulgent to consider environmentally conscious house design ?

 

whinge all you like, because the ability to want something doesn't equate with the need for infrastructure to supply it as a right

 

the descriptor "greedy" seems apt

 

and the planet can hardly wait for the indian subcontinent to expect aircon as a standard item

 

pretty much, the way its getting electricity is now a privilege not a right. Edited by nesquick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is it "wasteful" with electricity? … If you’re paying for a service why can you not consume as much as you like? What I disagree with is the mentality that “heavy users” should be taxed harder just because they consume more. My power bill was around $1200 a quarter also when i lived in NSW.. 2 story house.. 20kw of aircon running 24/7 most of the year.. Spa ect..

Smart meters are a "joke".. And it’s only going to get worst.. The electricity companies have been gouging money from everyone for years and neglected to invest in the infrastructure to meet the supply and demand. So rather than invest in improving the infrastructure so that everyone can be a “heavy user” ..or simply turn the aircon on when its a hot day.. They are pushing for everyone to reduce their usage and “encouraging” them by charging ridicules peek usage fees during peek time.. could you imagine if they did this for your other utility’s.. Like the internet? Imagine if all of a sudden your ISP started to charge you more every time there network go congested.. in blocks of 15mins.. All of a sudden you started paying $2 a meg rather than 20cents a meg .. Just because everyone wanted to download something at the same time and they didn’t have a network that could handle it. Think summer time when everyone wants to use .. an aircon .. these changes are coming .. and it will affect everyone.. big-time

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_demand_management

 

the smart meters are just the begin.. how fun will it be when the power company tells you that you can’t use your aircon on a 40+ degree day because the network can’t handle it.. or if you do use it .. they will charge you $1000’s of dollars .. for the privilege .. as power consumption is no longer a right.. since the government sold that right to private companies :).

Just a few things to point out, I don't know why you think smart meters are a joke, they are very effective and useful passing on the cost to the consumer is a bit frustrating but its unlikly to be sponsored by the government or distribution companies.

Smart meters help lower the effect of a middleman between consumers and retailers. Which far outweights any slight negatives i can see.

 

When you say electricity companies do you mean retailers or distributers because they are completly different and this is what causes alot of frustration.

 

Retailers buy electricty whole sale from distribution companies and onsell it to consumers, they are the people that you talk to and pay bills to and if anything goes wrong they try to fix the problem by communicating with the distribution company on your behalf.

Distributers buy electrricity from power stations and sell it to retailers, they are also responsible for maintaining power lines and reading meters and any maintenance, they also happen to own the electricity meters.

 

Distributers are also notoriously lazy, their systems are outdated and they spend alot of money on wages for meter readers or doing things in ways that could be done simpler and faster if they woudl invest in their own systems.

Smart meters will change this, distributers have to update their systems in order to read the meters to their full potential and they will be spending less on wages for meter readers once they are able to read them remotly and especially in NSW now the distribution companies have been sold off the retailers that have bought them will be spending money on improving their efficiency and effectivness.

 

Amusing that you compare the internet and electricty supply, currently the internet it more restrictive, although the smart meters will be making them very similar.

Internet

peak and off peak times - usage monitored differently

shaping if you use too much

automatic disconnection if you don't pay your bills,

 

currently your electricty doesn't function like that (although it is moving towards that)

 

At least with electricity you can't be disconnected based on how you are using it, you don't get a reduction in supply if you share your electricity with lots of friends.

 

Also why is energy demand management a bad thing?

Its better for the environment and more effient - base load power stations are better than peak stations

America doesn't have smart meters - but they do have rolling blackouts, personally I'd prefer not to use my aircon for an hour (or pay a slight premium) rather than my entire street/suburb looking power becuase they switched off the power grid to maintain supply to everyone else.

 

Or would you prefer to pay a premium to build extra (unnessisary) power stations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AFAIK California already has Thermostat control .. And as for putting up a premium on power to cover the cost of more power stations I would support that too, if it was to increase the base load power available with technology like TerraPower

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405...1231899264.html

as for carbon tax.. I have no problem with it at all.. its just another rich tax like everything else in this country now days anyway. Rather than do something smart like convert all the dirty coal fire power stations to something like GAS or invest in nuclear.. all they are doing is taxing the rich and giving the people on the gravy train money when the cost of living goes up.. just like every thing else this government does.. flood tax.. free $1000 to stimulate the poor.. I know what will stimulate them .. a job.

Don’t get me started on useless solar and wind power.. base load is where the problems at no amount of “green” energy is going to solve the base load power problem we have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

drago13666, I think you overplay the advantages of smart meters. the main benefit appears to be for the provider, not the consumer. As for your comment here :

 

"Also why is energy demand management a bad thing?

Its better for the environment and more effient - base load power stations are better than peak stations

America doesn't have smart meters - but they do have rolling blackouts, personally I'd prefer not to use my aircon for an hour (or pay a slight premium) rather than my entire street/suburb looking power becuase they switched off the power grid to maintain supply to everyone else.

 

Or would you prefer to pay a premium to build extra (unnessisary) power stations."

 

Are you suggesting that the advent of smart meters means we won't have blackouts and won't need to build more power stations?

 

If you are, I doubt very much that smart metering will achieve this. Our demand for power is massive and only increasing.

 

Like Apple products, people will pay through the nose...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Electricity is dirt cheap.

Suggested reading: http://www.renovateforum.com/f216/power-to...391/#post833799

 

 

And OP, it's very lovely that you're very well off and can afford so many things, but was there genuine need for you to show it all off to begin the opening of your point?

 

 

ps Can't remember what billing period I have, 30 or 60 days, but I've never had a bill greater than $110. Is it more expensive over East, or are people robots over there like Bender and are hooked on getting some raw volts into themselves?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

drago13666, I think you overplay the advantages of smart meters. the main benefit appears to be for the provider, not the consumer. As for your comment here :

 

"Also why is energy demand management a bad thing?

Its better for the environment and more effient - base load power stations are better than peak stations

America doesn't have smart meters - but they do have rolling blackouts, personally I'd prefer not to use my aircon for an hour (or pay a slight premium) rather than my entire street/suburb looking power becuase they switched off the power grid to maintain supply to everyone else.

 

Or would you prefer to pay a premium to build extra (unnessisary) power stations."

Are you suggesting that the advent of smart meters means we won't have blackouts and won't need to build more power stations?

 

If you are, I doubt very much that smart metering will achieve this. Our demand for power is massive and only increasing.

 

Like Apple products, people will pay through the nose...

 

I'm saying that If smart meters encorage people to spread out their power usage away from peak times so that more baseload and less peak power is needed then there would be a much much lower chance of blackouts and a reduced need for more power stations.

If you take turns to share a resource you don't need as much and it lasts longer than if people all grab for it all at once.

 

Also Id say there are only 3 main reasons someone calles there electricty retailer.

debt - calling for an extension / payment assistance

change of premisis

issues concerning the meter - high bills / consumption / meter readings / etc

 

get more accurate and regular readings, eliminate human error caused by meter readers, enable remote turning on and off of meters and you significantly reduce the potential for customers to call their retailers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You believe in extreme capitalism then, BobTheMonkey?

 

Clearly you must have skills that are in a high-demand sector, you happen to be in the right place for the demand, and you're in a demographic people are interested in employing. You never find yourself unemployed because either you're in a truly "permanent" position that you'll have until you retire, or you've got employers queuing up for your services. That, or you've retired already, and have a decent amount in superannuation to live out your years on.

 

Good for you.

 

Some of those public housing tenants are in public housing because they can't afford rentals elsewhere. Often they are people who are on old-age pensions, or have disabilities/conditions that make finding work difficult. Maybe they were victims of the Great Financial Crisis, their employment finished up rather suddenly, and they've found there's little going in their area now.

 

Ever been made redundant at mid-age and tried to find another position? My father was faced with this in 95. He went back to uni and studied IT, it then took him another two years to find another position.

 

"You're overqualified" the employers would say. "You're an old fart and we're not interested in hiring you" is what they meant, reading between the lines. Yes, age discrimination is illegal, but try and prove that's what they're doing. They have a list of excuses as long as an orangutang's arm that sound "plausible", but we know the truth.

 

Perhaps they do have some skills, but they can't afford the cost of moving, and/or need the support of friends and family that are in the area. This was my situation… Electrical Engineering positions aren't exactly thick on the ground here in Brisbane. Much of the action I see is in Sydney or Melbourne, neither location I care to move to because my family is up here. I found one position with a company, currently I am working under contract for them, and doing casual work for a second. That was after a few months off due to the previous position finishing up.

 

I never claimed unemployment benefits, I'll die a pauper in the gutter before I talk to Centrelink.

 

Luckily I'm in a position to take that point of view. I have some cash reserves and while I certainly can't afford to be too complacent, I can get by. Not everyone is in this position, and that is why the governments put this sort of package together for the less fortunate.

 

I agree that extreme communism isn't a good thing. It is not a binary switch however, it's an analogue dial. The extremes do us no service, we need to be somewhere in the middle.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×