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Goth

US forces currently bombing the crap out of Libya.

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http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/africa/03/19...T1&iref=BN1

 

I should stress that this is French and British and US forces, acting with approval from the UN.

 

Tripoli, Libya (CNN) -- Hours after French, British and American military forces unleashed cruise missiles and fighter jets, a defiant Moammar Gadhafi said Libya will fight back against undeserved "naked aggression."

A coalition that includes Canada and Italy made good Saturday on international warnings to Gadhafi, hammering Libyan military positions in the first phase of an operation that will include enforcement of a no-fly zone.

More than 110 Tomahawk missiles fired from American and British ships and submarines hit about 20 Libyan air and missile defense targets in western portions of the country, U.S. Vice Adm. William Gortney said at a Pentagon briefing.

The U.S. will conduct a damage assessment of the sites, which include SA-5 missiles and communications facilities. A senior U.S. military official, who was not authorized to speak on the record, said the missiles landed near Misrataand Tripoli, the capital and Gadhafi's stronghold.

 

The salvo, in an operation dubbed "Odyssey Dawn," was meant "to deny the Libyan regime from using force against its own people," said Gortney, who declined to detail future operations.

Earlier, French fighter jets deployed over Libya fired at a military vehicle Saturday, the country's first strike against Gadhafi's military forces, which earlier attacked the rebel stronghold of Benghazi.

Prime Minister David Cameron said late Saturday that British forces also are in action over Libya. "What we are doing is necessary, it is legal and it is right," he said. "I believe we should not stand aside while this dictator murders his own people."

While there were no U.S. warplanes flying over Libya late Saturday, the coalition was preparing for enforcement of a no-fly zone, Gortney said.

Edited by Goth

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110 missles for only 20 targets. I'd say those targets are in very bad shape at the moment.

 

Out of curiosity doesn't Libiya have anti missle sam sites to shoot down those incoming missles?

Edited by smakme7757

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This lol - and yeah I don't know exactly how much military power Libya has but I would have thought they'd have some missile protection

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Interesting that you choose to title the thread 'US forces...', when a big part of the story is just how reticent Obama was to be actively involved for fear of the 'World's Police' tag (especially in the Middle East), and that French fighter bombers have done all the combat flying so far.

 

And yes, while many many cruise missiles were fired, as the story you posted shows, they were fired from French and UK vessels as well as US.

 

Just interesting to see if the perception that it's a US endeavor remains regardless of the coalition leadership balance.

 

On another note, for a 'no fly zone' they've sure been hitting ground targets and tanks heavily... Fascinating how they expect the end game to play out, obviously this is the kill him or oust him push.

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"Don't stop the rebellion we started in your own country or we'll bomb the shit out of you and nab all your oil, love and kisses the NWO"

 

On Friday, the teleprompter reader in chief and NCAA basketball picker Obama bellied up to the podium in the East Room of the White House and read his script. He said Libyan thug Moammar Gadhafi has to stop attacking civilians or face military retaliation. “Left unchecked, we have every reason to believe that Gadhafi would commit atrocities against his people. Many thousands could die. A humanitarian crisis would ensue. The entire region could be destabilized, endangering many of our allies and partners,” Obama read from the teleprompter.

 

“These terms are not subject to negotiation,” said Obama, sounding like a Mafia don in a back room meeting between crime families. “If Gadhafi does not comply with the resolution, the international community will impose consequences, and the resolution will be enforced through military action.”

 

In other words, there will be blood. Meanwhile, the wife of the man who bombed civilians in Serbia and Iraq with depleted uranium said nothing short of a “decision by Colonel Gadhafi to leave” will prevent cruise missiles from raining down on Libya. The Voice of America – otherwise known as the voice of the U.S. government and the CIA – said Madame Clinton was skeptical of any attempt by Gadhafi and crew to avoid shock and awe.

 

Translation: the Europeans and their quisling Arab partners will attack Libya no matter what its thug leader in designer Bedouin clothes does.

 

Obama’s pretend concern for Libyan civilians is especially disgusting considering his inheritance of the neocon campaign to slaughter Iraqi and Afghan civilians.

 

Following the US-lobbied UN authorization of military murder in Libya, the death-dealing regime of Colonel Gaddafi said immediately that it would stop all killing. That put Obama’s war on hold, for a little while. The crazy Colonel has learned a thing or two about American foreign policy. If you pretend to favor the stated goals of the empire and comply with its stated dictates, you can otherwise do what every government in the world is structured to do: stay in power at all costs.

 

Gaddafi learned this lesson about a decade ago, when, with much fanfare, he announced that he would stop his nuclear weapons program and join the war on terror. The US then decided to rank him and his regime among the world’s good guys, and proceeded to hold him up as an example of wise statesmanship. Then he proceeded to dig in more deeply and tighten his despotic control over his citizens, all with the implied blessing of the US.

 

But this time it may not work. For weeks, American officials have been decrying Gaddafi’s bloody attacks on his people, but does the US really have a problem with dictatorship of his sort? This fact is unknown to Americans, but in the Middle East, and in Arab nations in particular, American commercial interests are regarded as a force for liberation but not the US government. The US has been the key to the power of Middle East dictatorships for decades, among which are Saudi Arabia, Jordan, and Yemen. I leave aside the killing of hundreds of thousands of Iaqi civilians to liberate them.

 

So it is something of a joke that the US would push a war against Libya in order to save that country from dictatorship. More likely, the real issue here is the same one that inspired the wars against Iraq: the ownership and control of the oil. And even if freedom were the driving motivation, when in modern history has war ever actually brought that to people? All war by nation states today ends in massive civilian deaths, destruction of infrastructure, political upheaval without end (see Afghanistan and Iraq), vast expense, and bitterness all around.

President Obama probably looks at the prospect of war rather lustily, just as Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, et al. did before him. But this time, there is a problem. The US simply cannot afford to be seen as attacking yet another Muslim country, though that is what it is doing, at a time when all the world knows that US foreign policy is primarily based on whipping up anti-Islamic feelings the world over, and taking over the oil.

 

For this reason, the Obama administration must seek the cover of the UN and the cooperation of other Arab states. England and France have been reliable, but not Germany and not other Arab states, so the operation could end up more tricky than he initially supposed.

 

Let’s just pretend for a moment that the US government really does want to free the people of Libya from a wicked man. What is the right way to go about it? There is the assassination option, which I oppose but which would nonetheless be a much better choice than war. What of the US’s legendary CIA hitmen that can take down anyone on the planet following a few orders from on high? Where are they now?

 

Recall that in the last days before the last war on Iraq, a spokesman for Saddam actually did propose a duel between Bush or Cheney and Saddam or his vice president. It was not an unserious suggestion. This would have been a much better option for both Iraq and America, but then the government doesn’t really get what it wants out of war, which is a chance to blow things up, spend gobs of money, whip up the population in war frenzy, and inspire another bout of nationalistic hysteria that helps consolidate power for the war-making regime.

Edited by Director

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Good to see you, Flouncy. You're quite right... is it even possible to edit the thread title around here?

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Interesting that you choose to title the thread 'US forces...', when a big part of the story is just how reticent Obama was to be actively involved for fear of the 'World's Police' tag (especially in the Middle East), and that French fighter bombers have done all the combat flying so far.

 

And yes, while many many cruise missiles were fired, as the story you posted shows, they were fired from French and UK vessels as well as US.

 

Just interesting to see if the perception that it's a US endeavor remains regardless of the coalition leadership balance.

 

On another note, for a 'no fly zone' they've sure been hitting ground targets and tanks heavily... Fascinating how they expect the end game to play out, obviously this is the kill him or oust him push.

A couple of points:

 

1) Journalists don't know their elbow from their asshole at the best of times so don't expect what is being reported to have any relation to reality.

 

2) To enforce a No-Fly Zone, you need complete air dominance. You can't have complete air dominance if you allow the other side to retain their anti-aircraft missiles/guns and associated C2 systems so you must target them. These things generally sit on the ground and thus can be called ground targets.

 

3) Noting point 2, striking a ZSU-23-4 or a S-300 is a very good idea however noting point 1, these would probably be reported as tanks.

 

4) Since the French are the only ones at the moment to have aircraft over Lybia at the moment, if tanks really are being plinked then it would have to be the French doing the plinking (the French are the only government to have switched recognition to the rebel 'government').

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Interesting that you choose to title the thread 'US forces...', when a big part of the story is just how reticent Obama was to be actively involved for fear of the 'World's Police' tag (especially in the Middle East), and that French fighter bombers have done all the combat flying so far.

 

And yes, while many many cruise missiles were fired, as the story you posted shows, they were fired from French and UK vessels as well as US.

 

Just interesting to see if the perception that it's a US endeavor remains regardless of the coalition leadership balance.

 

On another note, for a 'no fly zone' they've sure been hitting ground targets and tanks heavily... Fascinating how they expect the end game to play out, obviously this is the kill him or oust him push.

A couple of points:

 

1) Journalists don't know their elbow from their asshole at the best of times so don't expect what is being reported to have any relation to reality.

 

2) To enforce a No-Fly Zone, you need complete air dominance. You can't have complete air dominance if you allow the other side to retain their anti-aircraft missiles/guns and associated C2 systems so you must target them. These things generally sit on the ground and thus can be called ground targets.

 

3) Noting point 2, striking a ZSU-23-4 or a S-300 is a very good idea however noting point 1, these would probably be reported as tanks.

 

4) Since the French are the only ones at the moment to have aircraft over Lybia at the moment, if tanks really are being plinked then it would have to be the French doing the plinking (the French are the only government to have switched recognition to the rebel 'government').

 

So the French are attacking the rebels then? :P

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So the French are attacking the rebels then? :P

I wouldn't be surprised if the rebels got on the receiving end of some NATO standard munitions. Picking out 'friend' from foe would be a nightmare in Lybia right now.

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"Don't stop the rebellion we started in your own country"

Got a source on this? or are you worried the lizard men might come after you?

 

 

Open your eyes, join the dots, you don't even need to be very clever to put 2 and 2 together these days. When I get the memo from the CFR I'll be sure to post it here for you.

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"Don't stop the rebellion we started in your own country"

Got a source on this? or are you worried the lizard men might come after you?

 

 

Open your eyes, join the dots, you don't even need to be very clever to put 2 and 2 together these days. When I get the memo from the CFR I'll be sure to post it here for you.

 

Right, so it IS the lizard people!

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"Don't stop the rebellion we started in your own country"

Got a source on this? or are you worried the lizard men might come after you?

 

 

Open your eyes, join the dots, you don't even need to be very clever to put 2 and 2 together these days. When I get the memo from the CFR I'll be sure to post it here for you.

 

Right, so it IS the lizard people!

 

 

That's 'Visitors' to you!

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Too bad the rebels aren't really going to win.

 

They've no leadership, no plan and now, no momentum. The UN intervention might keep them alive a bit longer, but I very much doubt they would achieve what they set out to do - oust Gadhafi. At best we're talking about a split country mired in bloody skirmishes for some time to come.

 

What a bloody mess.

 

 

In the meantime, everybody seems to be ignoring the Bahrainese government shooting peaceful protesters on the streets and the Saudis openly backing them to do it.

 

This just goes to show that unless you the army on your side, any popular uprising will be put down no matter how many civilians you have on your side.

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Too bad the rebels aren't really going to win.

 

They've no leadership, no plan and now, no momentum. The UN intervention might keep them alive a bit longer, but I very much doubt they would achieve what they set out to do - oust Gadhafi. At best we're talking about a split country mired in bloody skirmishes for some time to come.

 

What a bloody mess.

 

 

In the meantime, everybody seems to be ignoring the Bahrainese government shooting peaceful protesters on the streets and the Saudis openly backing them to do it.

 

This just goes to show that unless you the army on your side, any popular uprising will be put down no matter how many civilians you have on your side.

That is only true if the vast majority of the civilian population are unarmed.

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Too bad the rebels aren't really going to win.

 

They've no leadership, no plan and now, no momentum. The UN intervention might keep them alive a bit longer, but I very much doubt they would achieve what they set out to do - oust Gadhafi. At best we're talking about a split country mired in bloody skirmishes for some time to come.

 

What a bloody mess.

 

 

In the meantime, everybody seems to be ignoring the Bahrainese government shooting peaceful protesters on the streets and the Saudis openly backing them to do it.

 

This just goes to show that unless you the army on your side, any popular uprising will be put down no matter how many civilians you have on your side.

That is only true if the vast majority of the civilian population are unarmed.

 

 

And if the vast majority of the population were a threat to Gaddafi why is he arming them?

 

Gaddafi said the Mediterranean has turned into a "real battlefield" after Western air strikes and opened arms depots for his people to defend the country.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/gaddafi-vows-r...0320-1c1si.html

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"Don't stop the rebellion we started in your own country"

Got a source on this? or are you worried the lizard men might come after you?

 

It's just him taking his usual "Everything bad that happens in the Middle East was caused by the US" conspiracy stance.

 

It's as predictable as the sun coming up.

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And if the vast majority of the population were a threat to Gaddafi why is he arming them?

 

Gaddafi said the Mediterranean has turned into a "real battlefield" after Western air strikes and opened arms depots for his people to defend the country.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/gaddafi-vows-r...0320-1c1si.html

 

You think he's just handing out weapons to anyone that rocks up to an army base asking for an AK-74?

 

lol

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And if the vast majority of the population were a threat to Gaddafi why is he arming them?

 

Gaddafi said the Mediterranean has turned into a "real battlefield" after Western air strikes and opened arms depots for his people to defend the country.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/gaddafi-vows-r...0320-1c1si.html

 

You think he's just handing out weapons to anyone that rocks up to an army base asking for an AK-74?

 

lol

 

 

Kinda sounds that way. ;P Who knows though, if my country was being invaded I'd probably be arming the population too, people fighting to protect their homes and loved ones are probably a better for of resistance anyway, of course the west will just call them 'insurgents' and proceed to wipe them out as per the usual M.O.

 

But yeah I'd like to see more info or some independent confirmation of it cos we all know how unreliable and totally compromised the MSM is.

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It's been a very well planned operation, similar to '91, but even better handled politically.

 

The US was not going to move unless it had a proper coalition and even then it was not going to take the lead, very politically astute.

 

The toms came off only UK and US assets, and only hit military targets, the French flew top cover but stayed out of range. UK, Italian and very likely Spanish air assets are available as soon as the ground capability is degraded. Their comms is already a mess now they are losing their ground defenses in terms of counter-air. There are US aircraft available, but as back up right now, not sensible to have htem leading it, much as the pilots want to.

 

The fools have been firing at nothing - useful, we now know where a few unannounced AAA locations are and the sats have them pin-pointed for round two.

 

I can only assume they overlooked that the US retired their stealth bombers so they were shooting at ghosts :)

 

To whoever wondered about missiles to shoot down cruise missiles, forget it, they come in low and fast and are small, nigh on impossible target.

 

There is Arab backing of this action and Arab troops ready to go in as required, another part of the necessities before taking action.

 

Yes, to those who know me I've had a small part to play and thus far it has gone precisely to plan.

 

It could still get messy the idiot is not going to give up easily, but there is one hell of a force lined against him and he has little to no international support.

 

Yes, Bahrain is a mess, but that is one best left to the Arabs to sort out amongst themselves.

 

A wave of change is sweeping over the ME and Israel is staying well out of it, also essential. We can only hope it leads to a better, peaceful region and these pseudo nations get their act together.

 

Cheers

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Yes, to those who know me I've had a small part to play and thus far it has gone precisely to plan.

As a mater of interest how long HAVE the plans been on the board?

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Hmm,

 

I guess I can answer that, in terms of my involvement about six weeks.

 

It started forming up a bit earlier as a "what if?" I think, the situation had been brewing for a while of course.

 

Thing is plans are always in motion against contingencies so you have a base to work from and logistics is pretty well oiled, its the politics that takes the time.

 

Been a bit of a juggle for me, moved house, starting new business, had a friend to help in a business sense, and this, sleep deprivation may well set in soon :)

 

Sorry really can't say much more, but all the planning for '91 sure helped, and much the same team funnily enough, without the need to worry about a land invasion, as yet anyway, but unfortunately minus Stealth bombers unless the B-2s came into play and that would have been a little provocative although not out of the question.

 

Cheers

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[...]pseudo nations [...]

 

Cheers

"Pseudo"? Getting "illegitimate governments to get their act together" I can fathom, but 'pseudo'? Really...

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