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Reverse Racism

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Why is discrimination based on race magically different to discrimination based on ability/disability?

Because I am talking about race only, if others here wish to cover these topics go for it. But I was discussing what I believe was a racist element in the ad I posted and nothing else. But by all means if you want to address other forms of discrimination go for it. :)

 

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Why is discrimination based on race magically different to discrimination based on ability/disability?

Because I am talking about race only, if others here wish to cover these topics go for it. But I was discussing what I believe was a racist element in the ad I posted and nothing else. But by all means if you want to address other forms of discrimination go for it. :)
Do you understand what it is that we are talking about, even if you don't want to partake in that conversation?

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Why is discrimination based on race magically different to discrimination based on ability/disability?

Because I am talking about race only, if others here wish to cover these topics go for it. But I was discussing what I believe was a racist element in the ad I posted and nothing else. But by all means if you want to address other forms of discrimination go for it. :)

 

Posted Image

 

Yep its horrible and ignorant of me to stick to the subject of my original post :D

 

Why is discrimination based on race magically different to discrimination based on ability/disability?

Because I am talking about race only, if others here wish to cover these topics go for it. But I was discussing what I believe was a racist element in the ad I posted and nothing else. But by all means if you want to address other forms of discrimination go for it. :)
Do you understand what it is that we are talking about, even if you don't want to partake in that conversation?

 

Yep you may be talking about that,(discrimination based on ability/disability) but I am talking about my original post, you know that one that started the thread. :P

 

Anyhoo its lunch time, so now I have, as admiral Yamanto said, "Awakened a sleeping giant" (In this case the green room) its on my bike and off to subway. :)

Edited by bowiee

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Disability services help place the disabled into jobs no matter what their skin colour, they still have to be qualified to fill that job.

Why can't an able bodied person apply for the same job?

After all, those adds say these positions are for disabled people.

I feel somewhat discriminated against.

 

 

See where this is going?

 

They are suitable for disabled, but open to all suitably qualified persons, as I said in the above quote you still have to be qualified. And it still has nothing to do with race.

 

Pretty sure if I applied here and said I'm an IT professional with no disabilities what so ever I'd be turned away. Or at the least would have it explained to me what Nova Employment actually do and I would be encouraged to seek employment elsewhere.

http://www.novaemployment.com.au/

 

Im afrid you're incorrect. At least in QLD with any of the government aided disability job.....things.

 

As a customer of them, I have to fight along side the 100% able bodied people to land any jobs. around here, they're not reserved.

The good thing is when you find an accredited 'equal opportunity employer' like the government.

 

As long as they like you, and you meet the qualifications, they're TECHNICALLY supposed to hire you, reguardless of anyhting else.

Whos around to enforce that though? no-one.

 

Disability point, at least in QLD, is invalid. Sorry bro.

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Which clearly there were not.

Weren't. Are now.

 

Aboriginals and white have equal access to HECS, to student housing, to tax breaks for textbooks, and so forth.

 

Everybody is entitled to Student Allowance. Aboriginals can access ABSTUDY, which IIRC is more than regular Student Allowance.

 

Everybody is entitled to an unskilled job while studying. If an employer is refusing to employ aboriginal students where they would otherwise be qualified for the work, then that employer is guilty of an offence.

 

Now, if I had been brought up in a family which through procedural racism had experienced unemployment for four generations (as is the case in a New Zealand context), then I may have had a very different outlook, and most likely would not have gone to university.

Quite frankly, that's a problem with the individual. If you want something enough, you'll do what you have to in order to get it.

 

If it's an option to sit around and wait for opportunities to be handed to you (like the job in the OP), then why try harder?

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Disability services help place the disabled into jobs no matter what their skin colour, they still have to be qualified to fill that job.

Why can't an able bodied person apply for the same job?

After all, those adds say these positions are for disabled people.

I feel somewhat discriminated against.

 

 

See where this is going?

 

They are suitable for disabled, but open to all suitably qualified persons, as I said in the above quote you still have to be qualified. And it still has nothing to do with race.

 

Pretty sure if I applied here and said I'm an IT professional with no disabilities what so ever I'd be turned away. Or at the least would have it explained to me what Nova Employment actually do and I would be encouraged to seek employment elsewhere.

http://www.novaemployment.com.au/

 

Im afrid you're incorrect. At least in QLD with any of the government aided disability job.....things.

 

As a customer of them, I have to fight along side the 100% able bodied people to land any jobs. around here, they're not reserved.

The good thing is when you find an accredited 'equal opportunity employer' like the government.

 

As long as they like you, and you meet the qualifications, they're TECHNICALLY supposed to hire you, reguardless of anyhting else.

Whos around to enforce that though? no-one.

 

Disability point, at least in QLD, is invalid. Sorry bro.

 

Okay, so let's move the goal posts a little it.

 

"We offer employment opportunities for people with coloured skin"

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I wonder what the rage would be if i started advertising "no blacks" on any job ads in the future.

 

you'd be blacklisted

...

 

and yes, i am saying that this "reverse discrimination"sold as empowerment is just as much discrimination as any other sort, and how come it isn't illegal ?

 

Please see my prior post.

 

Cheers, folks.

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I think people would rather ignore your prior post, Sorehead.

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I think people would rather ignore your prior post, Sorehead.

So it would seem :--/

 

But the discussion isn't really about the law at this point, is it?

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In my workplace we have specified positions for Indigenous Australians, as well as mechanisms for encouraging Indigenous Australians to apply for roles across the board, some of which I have direct involvement.

 

If people don't like it, and feel its unfair, then I'm unsure what to say. However I will say this, please consider that for almost the entire post invasion history of Australian, the traditional owners have been shot, raped, ignored, subjected to inquest after inquest, and have had their birthright of traditional ownership taken away (to name but a few). So next time you feel you've been unjustly discriminated against, please remember what 'positive discrimination' has cost Indigenous Australians.

 

And this certainly isn't about blame, what happened in the past we had no control over - most of it happening before we were born, we have however benefited from the actions of those who came before us. So it is up to us to make it right.

Giving the job to a less qualified applicant simply because of their skin colour does not, imho, make it right.

 

Giving someone, who is disadvantaged due to the segment of society they were born into, equal opportunity to gain the required qualifications - though - would be an entirely different story.

 

No matter how much leeway I try and give this particular issue, nothing justifies (to me) specifying the race an applicant must be.

 

Rob.

 

And that's really the question isn't it, where does it start. Where I work we have educational support to advance our people through the ranks, aswell as providing real jobs as they study. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we employ someone who can't do the job, what is being done in the real world is employing people who can do the job and assisting them in progressing to the levels that we require. Are they the best person for the job, that is a question that would have to be asked on a case by case basis. What I will propose, is that we have a serve skill shortage, coupled with an aging population, engaging Indigenous Australians into the workforce is the key to the economic success of Australia over the next few decades. While some may argue with the answer, I doubt anyone will argue with the fact that we will have more retired people relying on health services etc, than we have at any other time in history, we need more people to be working and paying taxes to support this country.

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Disability services help place the disabled into jobs no matter what their skin colour, they still have to be qualified to fill that job.

Why can't an able bodied person apply for the same job?

After all, those adds say these positions are for disabled people.

I feel somewhat discriminated against.

 

 

See where this is going?

 

They are suitable for disabled, but open to all suitably qualified persons, as I said in the above quote you still have to be qualified. And it still has nothing to do with race.

 

Pretty sure if I applied here and said I'm an IT professional with no disabilities what so ever I'd be turned away. Or at the least would have it explained to me what Nova Employment actually do and I would be encouraged to seek employment elsewhere.

http://www.novaemployment.com.au/

 

Im afrid you're incorrect. At least in QLD with any of the government aided disability job.....things.

 

As a customer of them, I have to fight along side the 100% able bodied people to land any jobs. around here, they're not reserved.

The good thing is when you find an accredited 'equal opportunity employer' like the government.

 

As long as they like you, and you meet the qualifications, they're TECHNICALLY supposed to hire you, reguardless of anyhting else.

Whos around to enforce that though? no-one.

 

Disability point, at least in QLD, is invalid. Sorry bro.

 

Okay, so let's move the goal posts a little it.

 

"We offer employment opportunities for people with coloured skin"

 

 

As long as white is within that spectrum; sure.

 

As i said; people hard done by directly, like the stolen generation, sure, aide them.

 

But younger aboriginals already get various handouts and have the same opportunities as other young people (more, through my schooling, as all the optoinal career days, or events, which were too expensive for most students, were free for them).

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I think people would rather ignore your prior post, Sorehead.

So it would seem :--/

 

But the discussion isn't really about the law at this point, is it?

 

sorry, i had,t read through to your prior post when i first replied

 

so, mandating active "positive" discrimination to promote equality isn't an act of discrimination ?

 

the law may be full of good intention, but it effectively disenfranchises other groups based solely on race, and even worse, the descriptor of someone as "indigenous" relies on their self declaration as such

ttbomk there is no legal requirement to demonstrate aboriginality other than profound belief that you possess that quality

 

how does "the law" define indigenous status ?

 

i am not trying to be a racist troll here, i am dissatisfied with the clumsy execution of "sorry" politics

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Quite frankly, that's a problem with the individual. If you want something enough, you'll do what you have to in order to get it.

 

If it's an option to sit around and wait for opportunities to be handed to you (like the job in the OP), then why try harder?

Think of the money the Government(s) could save if they just gave up on depressed people. If they're not going to try and live and make the most out of life, why should we subsidise their medication and counselling?

 

Some people are born with a natural instinct for assertiveness, and ambition. Most people will not rise above their surroundings, which is a rather sad thing when you look at people who may not live in poverty, but will live their whole lives with no inspiration or motivation. Even if a programme was to target this social group, rather than aspects of it based on race or ethnic background or ability/disability status or some other political classing, it's likely that someone who is not quite so bad off, or not badly off at all, will fall foul of it. Social welfare is patronising in that way, but it helps assuage the guilt of otherwise doing nothing. If nothing else, it helps to alleviate some of the costs incurred by business when hiring someone who is not perfect, which is cheaper than the current alternative - people who are less than ideal being unemployed for their remaining life.

Edited by Nich...

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Which clearly there were not.

Weren't. Are now.

 

Aboriginals and white have equal access to HECS, to student housing, to tax breaks for textbooks, and so forth.

 

Everybody is entitled to Student Allowance. Aboriginals can access ABSTUDY, which IIRC is more than regular Student Allowance.

 

Everybody is entitled to an unskilled job while studying. If an employer is refusing to employ aboriginal students where they would otherwise be qualified for the work, then that employer is guilty of an offence.

 

Now, if I had been brought up in a family which through procedural racism had experienced unemployment for four generations (as is the case in a New Zealand context), then I may have had a very different outlook, and most likely would not have gone to university.

Quite frankly, that's a problem with the individual. If you want something enough, you'll do what you have to in order to get it.

 

If it's an option to sit around and wait for opportunities to be handed to you (like the job in the OP), then why try harder?

 

You make a valid point in a roundabout way, there is a point at which the individual needs to step through the door that has been opened, and take ownership of the opportunity (I've actually just employed a couple of people for graduate roles, and I've been telling them exactly this). I think however that you're underestimating the conditioning that takes place within our society, if you've been told again and again that you can't do something, and had this message reinforced by the world around you, then you are most likely to accept the situation. Would you agree with that statement? And if that is true, then the opposite is true, if you've been told you can do something, most likely you will. Its the conditioning that we need to undo, so Indigenous Australians for example, can progress and achieve within the workforce.

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Seriously...it's how I feel in these threads.

See that bowiee. He the devil.

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See that bowiee. He the devil.

It's true. Hector makes me want to do sinful things *flutters eyelashes at Hec*.

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Seriously...it's how I feel in these threads.

See that bowiee. He the devil.

 

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

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I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

Edited by elvenwhore

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I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

 

Ahh but AFAIK that's what I was talking to Hawkeye about, racism only. As I said others may be talking about other forms of discrimination, but David pulled me up on the racism element I had raised. :) BTW I have not chosen to restrict my context I have chosen to limit my discussion to the issue I raised in the OP as that is all I was asking about. Others can go for it if they wish to go to other forms of discrimination. Edited by bowiee

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Your title says racism, the first line in your OP says discrimination....seems like you're talking about both :)

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You said you were talking about racism only, but you said you didn't see a problem with it WRT disability services. Which is what has people wondering why you think all racism is teh evil, but disabilityism is ok.

 

It seems a little odd when all racism is bad, but not all discrimination is bad. We may as well ask why all racial discrimination is bad, if not all discrimination is bad.

Edited by Nich...

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