Jump to content
bowiee

Reverse Racism

Recommended Posts

It's nice that jobs assistance/discrimination based on skin colour are being talked about in the same breath as jobs assistance/discrimination for people who are disabled.

 

Gives me a little perspective...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your title says racism, the first line in your OP says discrimination....seems like you're talking about both :)

I stand corrected, so to make it clear, for the record, I mean racial discrimination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

 

Ahh but AFAIK that's what I was talking to Hawkeye about, racism only. As I said others may be talking about other forms of discrimination, but David pulled me up on the racism element I had raised. :)

 

I think in part you've painted yourself into a corner. What you see as racism, the OP, is what many of us view as being part of the answer to abolishing racism - setting right the wrongs of the past.

 

EDIT:

 

So the question is, do you agree that there were a number of things that happened in the past which were racially prejudice? If yes, what should we do about making these things right (as best we can)?

Edited by psyched

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

 

Ahh but AFAIK that's what I was talking to Hawkeye about, racism only. As I said others may be talking about other forms of discrimination, but David pulled me up on the racism element I had raised. :)

 

I think in part you've painted yourself into a corner. What you see as racism, the OP, is what many of us view as being part of the answer to abolishing racism - setting right the wrongs of the past.

 

And I don't see it that way. So no corner, I still believe you should get a job based on skills not skin colour, how very racist of me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop patronising people with disabilities, Leo.

Can you imagine a "disabled Aboriginal person" work ad?

 

Jeez...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

 

Ahh but AFAIK that's what I was talking to Hawkeye about, racism only. As I said others may be talking about other forms of discrimination, but David pulled me up on the racism element I had raised. :)

 

I think in part you've painted yourself into a corner. What you see as racism, the OP, is what many of us view as being part of the answer to abolishing racism - setting right the wrongs of the past.

 

And I don't see it that way. So no corner, I still believe you should get a job based on skills not skin colour, how very racist of me.

 

So what if through racial practices/policies, opportunities to gain those skills were withheld from people? Do we just write a whole ethnic group off because of 'our' actions? Because to me, writing off an entire people is racist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

 

Ahh but AFAIK that's what I was talking to Hawkeye about, racism only. As I said others may be talking about other forms of discrimination, but David pulled me up on the racism element I had raised. :)

 

I think in part you've painted yourself into a corner. What you see as racism, the OP, is what many of us view as being part of the answer to abolishing racism - setting right the wrongs of the past.

 

And I don't see it that way. So no corner, I still believe you should get a job based on skills not skin colour, how very racist of me.

 

So what if through racial practices/policies, opportunities to gain those skills were withheld from people? Do we just write a whole ethnic group off because of 'our' actions? Because to me, writing off an entire people is racist.

 

But that is bullshit and you know it, every one can go to school receive training for a job, regardless of skin colour. Was it always like that ? NO! but its a very different story now and AFAIK education is available to everyone who wants it and can be bothered to partake of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

I cannot put it more plainly than this - I am 'down on' you because what you are calling racist behaviour is nothing of the kind.

 

Let's start with the UN definition of racial discrimination, which Wikipedia states as:

 

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Bowiee, you seem to be adhering to the first point (restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent), while ignoring the just as important second point (which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition...). Now, I doubt you believe that BoysTown is trying to nullify or impair non-ATSI people. No one's holding back white-folk; they're holding the door open for less advantaged indigenous people.

 

That's not racism.

 

Now, if you feel that this ad actually does impair, denigrate or otherwise shit upon an Anglo-Saxon or whatever non-indigenous group you care to name, that's a whole other kettle of fish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop patronising people with disabilities, Leo.

Can you imagine a "disabled Jewish Aboriginal person" work ad?

 

Jeez...

 

FTFY ; )

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not even going to bother reading the rest of the comments.

 

Reverse racism? WTF are you on about? Seriously - Explain.

 

But first, perhaps you should do some reading on Equal Opportunity, White Settlement in Australia, Aborignal Relocation, etc. I'm not saying read this because it's evidence, I'm saying read it because it will provide an understanding on why the Australian Federal and State Governments feel it is ok to promote racism.

 

You will get an understanding, you won't actually understand. No one does. But in todays day and age, if that strikes you as reverse racism, I won't bring up the topic of Aboriginal benefits.

 

BTW, don't start crying "ABBO HATER!" - My missus is part coon, and when she's not busy sniffing petrol, she agrees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but its a very different story now and AFAIK education is available to everyone who wants it and can be bothered to partake of it.

I don't have hard data, but my gut tells me that too is incorrect. I daresay there's a vast difference in the quality of education that many aboriginal kids receive, for a whole host of reasons. Geography, distance, socio-economic factors... you name it.

 

A lot of folks seem to think that the issue of indigenous equality and access has been won; that the stolen generation is the last of the hurdles facing indigenous people in Australia. Most people wouldn't believe that to be the case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop patronising people with disabilities, Leo.

Can you imagine a "disabled Jewish Aboriginal person" work ad?

 

Jeez...

 

FTFY ; )

 

And gay.

 

And a midget.

 

With a lisp.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But that is bullshit and you know it, every one can go to school receive training for a job, regardless of skin colour. Was it always like that ? NO! but its a very different story now and AFAIK education is available to everyone who wants it and can be bothered to partake of it.

Do you think that families with four or more generations of living on subsistence welfare, of any ethnic background, are going to produce lots of children that are driven and motivated to live a life of privilege and excess that is considered as 'normal' by large tracts, if not most, of the Western First World? Because, I mean, I'd like to hear your thoughts on how we can cure slums and poverty and petty (and otherwise) crime that are usually endemic to areas filled with low socio-economic families.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

I cannot put it more plainly than this - I am 'down on' you because what you are calling racist behaviour is nothing of the kind.

 

Let's start with the UN definition of racial discrimination, which Wikipedia states as:

 

the term "racial discrimination" shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.

Bowiee, you seem to be adhering to the first point (restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent), while ignoring the just as important second point (which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition...). Now, I doubt you believe that BoysTown is trying to nullify or impair non-ATSI people. No one's holding back white-folk; they're holding the door open for less advantaged indigenous people.

 

That's not racism.

 

Now, if you feel that this ad actually does impair, denigrate or otherwise shit upon an Anglo-Saxon or whatever non-indigenous group you care to name, that's a whole other kettle of fish.

 

Its as simple as this "Jobs should be open to all suitably qualified persons regardless of skin colour" If you lack skills take advantage of the programs out there to improve you skills giving you the same chance as others applying for said job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

 

Ahh but AFAIK that's what I was talking to Hawkeye about, racism only. As I said others may be talking about other forms of discrimination, but David pulled me up on the racism element I had raised. :)

 

I think in part you've painted yourself into a corner. What you see as racism, the OP, is what many of us view as being part of the answer to abolishing racism - setting right the wrongs of the past.

 

And I don't see it that way. So no corner, I still believe you should get a job based on skills not skin colour, how very racist of me.

 

So what if through racial practices/policies, opportunities to gain those skills were withheld from people? Do we just write a whole ethnic group off because of 'our' actions? Because to me, writing off an entire people is racist.

 

But that is bullshit and you know it, every one can go to school receive training for a job, regardless of skin colour. Was it always like that ? NO! but its a very different story now and AFAIK education is available to everyone who wants it and can be bothered to partake of it.

 

Okay, so now 'they' (and I'm assuming you're meaning people who 'look' different to you) are lazy, is that what you're saying? That 'they' can't be bother to receive an education?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop patronising people with disabilities, Leo.

Can you imagine a "disabled Jewish Aboriginal person" work ad?

 

Jeez...

 

FTFY ; )

 

And gay.

 

And a midget.

 

With a lisp.

 

Are You a gay transgendered Jewish midget of Romany descent who self identifies as ATSE, and who also has a beguilingly effeminate lisp to match your Barry Manilow-esque voice? Then We want you!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still fail to see why you are down on me because I am against racism of any kind. I guess I must be alone on that stance.

Sweetheart, I don't think it's only the issue of racism that most here are talking about - they're including the wider context when addressing the situation you raised in the OP, that's all. You've chosen to restrict your context - and like I said earlier, that's fine - but realise that not everyone here is operating or choosing to discuss the situation based on that limited context.

 

That's all :-)

 

edit: also, I have no idea what's in the linked video because I can't view it here at work, so I'm not sure what particular bearing it has on the conversation.

 

Ahh but AFAIK that's what I was talking to Hawkeye about, racism only. As I said others may be talking about other forms of discrimination, but David pulled me up on the racism element I had raised. :)

 

I think in part you've painted yourself into a corner. What you see as racism, the OP, is what many of us view as being part of the answer to abolishing racism - setting right the wrongs of the past.

 

And I don't see it that way. So no corner, I still believe you should get a job based on skills not skin colour, how very racist of me.

 

So what if through racial practices/policies, opportunities to gain those skills were withheld from people? Do we just write a whole ethnic group off because of 'our' actions? Because to me, writing off an entire people is racist.

 

But that is bullshit and you know it, every one can go to school receive training for a job, regardless of skin colour. Was it always like that ? NO! but its a very different story now and AFAIK education is available to everyone who wants it and can be bothered to partake of it.

 

Okay, so now 'they' (and I'm assuming you're meaning people who 'look' different to you) are lazy, is that what you're saying? That 'they' can't be bother to receive an education?

 

*Sigh* I am saying if you want a job and you need qualifications go get them.

 

Its as simple as this "Jobs should be open to all suitably qualified persons regardless of skin colour" If you lack skills take advantage of the programs out there to improve you skills giving you the same chance as others applying for said job.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Its as simple as this "Jobs should be open to all suitably qualified persons regardless of skin colour" If you lack skills take advantage of the programs out there to improve you skills giving you the same chance as others applying for said job.

What, you mean programs like the one that BoysTown runs?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

but its a very different story now and AFAIK education is available to everyone who wants it and can be bothered to partake of it.

I don't have hard data, but my gut tells me that too is incorrect. I daresay there's a vast difference in the quality of education that many aboriginal kids receive, for a whole host of reasons. Geography, distance, socio-economic factors... you name it.

 

A lot of folks seem to think that the issue of indigenous equality and access has been won; that the stolen generation is the last of the hurdles facing indigenous people in Australia. Most people wouldn't believe that to be the case.

 

I do have the hard data Hawkeye, and you're absolutely right. We have a long way to go to get to educational equality between various groups (including Indigenous Australians), we need to be innovative and together on this one. That is why at points in this thread I have 'shot from the hip' so to speak. It is challenging enough trying to engage with a group after so much historical and present day racism, without people adding further to the fire.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Jobs should be open to all suitably qualified persons regardless of skin colour"

 

I still don't see what's so horrible in that statement. I must be racist and did not realise it................... So its off to the next KKK meeting for me.

 

EDIT: I tell myself to stay away from the green room I should listen to myself more often. Only here can you be called racist for saying the above statement. And suggesting that since abstudy has been around for decades that skin colour should in this day and age be relevant any more.

Edited by bowiee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

scruffy1 - in short, such discrimination does not meet the legal definition of unfair racial discrimination. So yes.

 

 

There's a statistical disadvantage to being Aboriginal. I can't say whether or not current measures to counteract this are the best option. But to me it's not about being "sorry" - I'm not sorry that the British invaded and colonised Australia. It's about identifying and helping to eliminate the source of the aforesaid disadvantage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Stop patronising people with disabilities, Leo.

Can you imagine a "disabled Jewish Aboriginal person" work ad?

 

Jeez...

 

FTFY ; )

 

And gay.

 

And a midget.

 

With a lisp.

 

Are You a gay transgendered Jewish midget of Romany descent who self identifies as ATSE, and who also has a beguilingly effeminate lisp to match your Barry Manilow-esque voice? Then We want you!

 

If you pay me enough I'll be whoever you want me to be.

Edited by Leonid

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Jobs should be open to all suitably qualified persons regardless of skin colour"

 

I still don't see what's so horrible in that statement. I must be racist and did not realise it................... So its off to the next KKK meeting for me.

Dude, the only one calling you racist so far is yourself. I'm not even trying to imply it.

 

And I've not said there's anything wrong with your statement on the way things 'should' be. But you must realise that things are NOT like that. People of disadvantage cannot simply go out and get qualifications from the equal opportunity shop; if we want to build a society where there truly is no discrimination, where people can apply for anything they want and all that comes into it is their qualifications, we need to work at it. We're not there yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Jobs should be open to all suitably qualified persons regardless of skin colour"

 

I still don't see what's so horrible in that statement. I must be racist and did not realise it................... So its off to the next KKK meeting for me.

Dude, the only one calling you racist so far is yourself. I'm not even trying to imply it.

 

And I've not said there's anything wrong with your statement on the way things 'should' be. ... we need to work at it. We're not there yet.

 

+1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×