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sli_fox

Analog Stick + Mouse

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After being disheartened by countless releases due to sketchy character control with keyboard and mouse I finally bit the bullet and bought a Razer Onza TE.

 

Unfortunately the Onza while solving most of the issues created a few new ones.

 

In short a Game controller offers two distinct advantages over keyboard and mouse the first being the presence of an analog stick for movement and the second being that many titles are "Built" for controllers(The Witcher 2 is a great example of a menu system that works seemlessly with a controller but causes no end of head aches with keyboard and mouse).

 

Unfortunately when you compare camera control with a Mouse to camera control with an analog stick there is just no comparison. Analog sticks are garbage for Camera Control.

 

It seems the only way to have the best of both worlds is to "have both worlds" ie anolog stick in one hand for movement and mouse in the other for camera control.

 

This however presents another set of problems. The first being sideways movement on an analog stick should be straffing since with a mouse, camera control turning is effortless. The second being recognition by the game to treat the combination of Analog Stick and Mouse as being something unto itself and neither "Game Controller" nor "Keyboard and Mouse".

 

So I present this topic for discussion with a few key queries.

 

Is it feasible to get support for this type of setup in the game code much the same as controllers are handled but with proper mouse support for camera control?

 

How does the G-13 stack up as an anolog stick for this task?

 

Will Razer come to the party?

 

What are the odds that lack of developer support will leave this level of control in the dark ages for years unnecessarily?

 

And most important of all is it feasible to get this level of control for Skyrim?

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Interesting idea.

 

How physically would this control scheme work? Mouse in one hand on desk, what's the other hand do? Holding a joystick style appliance on the desk or holding a Wii nun chuck like remote?

 

The main issue I see though is with using the keyboard for movement you also gain the advantage of having your hand close to other keys to execute other functions, like change stance, reload, camera change quick select weapons etc in an fps, that'll be quite hard to manage with a single handed analogue device.

Edited by mark84

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Interesting idea.

 

How physically would this control scheme work? Mouse in one hand on desk, what's the other hand do? Holding a joystick style appliance on the desk or holding a Wii nun chuck like remote?

 

The main issue I see though is with using the keyboard for movement you also gain the advantage of having your hand close to other keys to execute other functions, like change stance, reload, camera change quick select weapons etc in an fps, that'll be quite hard to manage with a single handed analogue device.

 

Much the same as with the Razer Nostromo or Logitech G-13.

 

I fear software support is the real inhibiting factor. Something as simple as making x-axis movements straffing rather than facing changing movement may prove difficult.

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OP is talking about a nicer version of this:

 

http://www.splitfish.com/

 

Posted Image

 

They make a few different ones. I used to use one for MAG on PS3 (before MOVE support was enabled) and it was excellent with one caveat being that the mouse is not as nice as my PC mouse. It is decidedly cheap. But the analogue stick part is excellent.

 

Appparently it works on the PC too (it is only a USB device afterall). I'll plug it in and see what's up tonight.

Edited by elfinke

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Last year GAME had a massive sale on and the Splitfish was $18, really wish I had have grabbed one for mag, might have made it more bearable.

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Last year GAME had a massive sale on and the Splitfish was $18, really wish I had have grabbed one for mag, might have made it more bearable.

That happened to be when I grabbed it. $18 minus store manager discount meant for a very cheap peripheral :D

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The Split Fish is an excellent example.

 

How do you find games handle it?

 

Can you you set it up to strafe on the x-axis rather than turn and walk left or right?

 

How does it fare with in-game menu's?

 

 

I tried Arcania: Gothic IV with the Onza in one hand and my mouse in the other, as cumbersome as it was the immersion factor was through the roof. Mind you not being able to strafe with the anolog stick made it a little tedious.

 

Looking at the design of the Splitfish I think you would need to drop the stick to hit a button so maybe the G-13/Nostromo style would be a little easier to wield.

Edited by sli_fox

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The Split Fish is an excellent example.

 

How do you find games handle it?

 

Can you you set it up to strafe on the x-axis rather than turn and walk left or right?

 

How does it fare with in-game menu's?

 

 

I tried Arcania: Gothic IV with the Onza in one hand and my mouse in the other, as cumbersome as it was the immersion factor was through the roof. Mind you not being able to strafe with the anolog stick made it a little tedious.

 

Looking at the design of the Splitfish I think you would need to drop the stick to hit a button so maybe the G-13/Nostromo style would be a little easier to wield.

The $18 one I have has a handful of triggers on it, let me dig up a picture showing them...

 

Posted Image

 

There ya go. So you can at least map a handful of important functions to the triggers. I'll plug it into the PC tonight, and see what I can work out in Borderlands. I'm certain that even if windows or the game you were playing didn't natively support it, you could use xpadder to get the controls mapped exactly how you wanted.

Edited by elfinke

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I'll plug it into the PC tonight, and see what I can work out in Borderlands. I'm certain that even if windows or the game you were playing didn't natively support it, you could use xpadder to get the controls mapped exactly how you wanted.

 

That would be awesome thanks. I just might have to fire up Borderlands tonight myself, it's been awhile.

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this seems like a good concept but i'm pretty sure that i would way to unco for this lol. I'll stick to my keyboard and mouse for my PC and my controller for console, the way games are meant to be played...... lazy and couch ridden.

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i tried using my mates combo on his ps3 but i found that they have a max movement speed for the mouse which is was ever rate the joystick look is set to

so when trying to turn real quick like on pc games it didnt kind of work

but i definately like the idea for a home theater pc if you can get it to work ok with the thumbstick

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Posting from phone while I wait for some dough to rise, but I had a very quick play with the FragFX on the PC with Borderlands. Upon plugging it in the PC recognized it as a generic PS3 controller, but no part worked in windows. I loaded up xpadder, and it recognized every button bar one, and the mouse didn't work. No buggy, my G7 is many times better.

 

I made a quick profile, then set about running around in Borderlands. Worked flawlessly. Configuring the right buttons to the right function could prod tricky, as there are less buttons on the analogue handle then there are on a typical WASD keyboard, but that might be something that can be overcome with the built in macro function. Like I said, I spent all of 5 minutes trying this.

 

One last thing, while it is awful comfy using the analogue handle compared to a keyboard, without further configuring you don't gain anything by usingthem. It's still only a digital WASD input, only being activated by an analogue stick rather than on/off WASD keyboard strokes. Of course I expect this would be different in a game that actually utilizes analogue movement inputs.

 

Will try more later.

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Posting from phone while I wait for some dough to rise, but I had a very quick play with the FragFX on the PC with Borderlands. Upon plugging it in the PC recognized it as a generic PS3 controller, but no part worked in windows. I loaded up xpadder, and it recognized every button bar one, and the mouse didn't work. No buggy, my G7 is many times better.

 

I made a quick profile, then set about running around in Borderlands. Worked flawlessly. Configuring the right buttons to the right function could prod tricky, as there are less buttons on the analogue handle then there are on a typical WASD keyboard, but that might be something that can be overcome with the built in macro function. Like I said, I spent all of 5 minutes trying this.

 

One last thing, while it is awful comfy using the analogue handle compared to a keyboard, without further configuring you don't gain anything by usingthem. It's still only a digital WASD input, only being activated by an analogue stick rather than on/off WASD keyboard strokes. Of course I expect this would be different in a game that actually utilizes analogue movement inputs.

 

Will try more later.

i guess games like batman would be worth a shot since they have joystick controls built in however ive heard win 7 doesnt like controllers other than ones with the same setup as the 360s

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Awesome, thanks for the input.

 

I guess the only thing to do is pick up a G-13 and if there are any problems, complain, complain, complain.

 

Heck why wait, surely there is someone from Razer lurking around here somewhere......Hey man, can you whip up a Nostromo for me with an analog stick on it?

 

 

And, you, yeah you, Bethesda, would you please make sure you have Legendary support for G-13/mouse control in Skyrim?

Edited by sli_fox

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Posting from phone while I wait for some dough to rise, but I had a very quick play with the FragFX on the PC with Borderlands. Upon plugging it in the PC recognized it as a generic PS3 controller, but no part worked in windows. I loaded up xpadder, and it recognized every button bar one, and the mouse didn't work. No buggy, my G7 is many times better.

 

I made a quick profile, then set about running around in Borderlands. Worked flawlessly. Configuring the right buttons to the right function could prod tricky, as there are less buttons on the analogue handle then there are on a typical WASD keyboard, but that might be something that can be overcome with the built in macro function. Like I said, I spent all of 5 minutes trying this.

 

One last thing, while it is awful comfy using the analogue handle compared to a keyboard, without further configuring you don't gain anything by usingthem. It's still only a digital WASD input, only being activated by an analogue stick rather than on/off WASD keyboard strokes. Of course I expect this would be different in a game that actually utilizes analogue movement inputs.

 

Will try more later.

i guess games like batman would be worth a shot since they have joystick controls built in however ive heard win 7 doesnt like controllers other than ones with the same setup as the 360s

 

Its nothing to do with Windows 7 itself, its a GFWL thing.

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Its nothing to do with Windows 7 itself, its a GFWL thing.

Speaking of GFWL...I tried to grab a free download from the shop inside Fable 3 the other day and my Hotmail account got Pwnd and sent Viagra advertisements to all of my friends.

 

Took me a few days to work out how the breach occured.

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