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Morgoth

Alcohol during Pregnancy

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I don't take anything that was stated by PP's in this thread as scientific fact... You do? Wow....

 

Don't make assumptions, my wife has just a few weeks ago given birth to our third child, and many of my female friends have been having babies lately. None of whom felt compelled to endanger their unborn baby's lives in an effort to get a buzz on. Despite what 30 seconds of reading Wikipeadia may have taught you, even one drink can cause irreperable dammage. It's idiotic and reckless to take that risk.

 

The blanket statement "Soft Cheese = Bad" has been made by the pregnancy health Gods because there are so many women out there who are either too stupid or don't care enough to read further into what they're putting into their bodies. The risk is that if said soft cheese is made with unpasturised milk it can contain harmful bacteria that can cause food poisining, and by proxy, misscarriage. Rather than leaving anything like that to chance, it's much easier to say "Don't eat soft cheese"...

 

The only risk with deli meat is that it's been sitting in an open display cabinet at Who-knows-what temprature for Who-know-show long... *See previous paragraph for "Don't eat....." explaination*

 

As to your last point, it's ok to be loud and oppinionated when you're right....

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:D

 

That is all..

 

(I'm basing my statements on fact.. I'll leave others to defend their credentials which I know are also fact)

 

Summary: You are wrong on many facts. I agree that alcohol is bad, I and my wife both wish she knew she was pregnant. She wouldn't have drunk if she knew. But still.. We live with it.. Our boy is fine.. But you know what.. Statisitically speaking, given how much she drank (She doesn't really drink.. She had a 1 week period where she drank because she caught up with a friend she hadn't seen in ages before she knew she was pregnant) and quantity she drank, the risks were minimal.

 

You my boy.. Are a drama queen. (3 kids means nothing. I've seen bogans with that many before they are 20.)

 

 

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Edited by AccessDenied

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Don't make assumptions, my wife has just a few weeks ago given birth to our third child

 

So you are being totally rational, how's the sleep deprivation ?

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I don't take anything that was stated by PP's in this thread as scientific fact...

 

etc...

i sure hope you don't own a cat

 

and for the record, i hold two degrees in medicine and a diploma of obstetrics too

 

plus have 2 children, fwiw

 

:)

 

ninja edit : double post

Edited by scruffy1

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/waves scruffy1

 

I didn't want to drag you in mate and I hope you didn't feel compelled to post because of me.

 

End of day:

There are people here who ARE qualified doctors who have posted in this thread

There are people here who ARE qualified scientists who have posted in this thread

There are people here who HAVE had more children than you and posted in this thread

 

And you have called them ALL wrong because of your personal opinions.

 

We are ALL entitled to opinions, but to declare everyone else wrong and idiots because their opinions don't coincide with yours? Well...

 

AD

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Come on AD, give the man a break, he's just seen the third head come out of his wife's vagina, getting no sleep and no sex.

 

He's bound to be a little overly obtuse.

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Fair enough Moist..

 

I wasn't going to let him go too easily..

 

Morally I agree with him.. 0 alchol during pregnancy. But there are times to be a realist.. This is one of them.

 

There are many great people that have been born whose mother drank during pregnancy, yet it did not affect the infant and many infacts born with disabilities due to mothers drinking during pregnancy.

 

The media is flawed as they do not accurately reflect the studies. How many media reports have you read about alcohol affecting the baby? OK. Now tell me how many have given you the facts about which trimester.

 

Alcohol is bad. It's a drug. It affects adults and bubs. But to go off your rail? No. That's just as bad as drinking.

 

A fathers responsibility is to provide support and encouragement (and protection of course). If you start getting hissy at a woman because she's craving a drink then you have failed in your duty. Try to talk her out of it of course. Discourage her. But the level from Devilsmurf? No that's almost abandonment.

 

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/waves scruffy1

 

I didn't want to drag you in mate and I hope you didn't feel compelled to post because of me.

i think it was this diatribe

 

Don't make assumptions, my wife has just a few weeks ago given birth to our third child, and many of my female friends have been having babies lately. None of whom felt compelled to endanger their unborn baby's lives in an effort to get a buzz on. Despite what 30 seconds of reading Wikipeadia may have taught you, even one drink can cause irreperable dammage.

that provoked me

 

leaving aside the ad hoc argument and the lamentable spelling (because my typing is so crap i often make errors), it is the bizarre presumption that a single drink might damage a conceptus

 

and because soft cheese may be contentious, here's a little further reading for those interested

 

i am not (nor did i earlier) advocate hitting the piss, but i do realise some women may have a drink in pregnancy, often without being aware they are pregnant, and that while they shouldn't do so repeatedly, they shouldn't beat themselves up over it because maternal stress over shit that happens is quite possibly worse than the actual shit

 

congratulations on 3 children, but it doesn't make you a qualified obstetrician, nor probably a paediatrician either

i will concede you are a proven sperm donor, but that's about it wrt your pedigree in embryology and teratogenesis

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i will concede you are a proven sperm donor, but that's about it wrt your pedigree in embryology and teratogenesis

Now now, let's not under sell him. He's clearly proven he has a fine grasp of arguments based purely on claiming moral superiority and an incredibly large soap box.

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i am not (nor did i earlier) advocate hitting the piss, but i do realise some women may have a drink in pregnancy, often without being aware they are pregnant, and that while they shouldn't do so repeatedly, they shouldn't beat themselves up over it because maternal stress over shit that happens is quite possibly worse than the actual shit

Thanks for saying that scruffy1. My unqualified opinion 2nds this ^^.

 

edit: As for Devilsmurf, I recommend, sleep, a stiff drink and a good wank. His wife may be a bit exhausted just now, hence recommending the wank.

 

edit: To include a big Congratulations on the third child Devilsmurf. Hope mum and bub are both well :)... ( I should have said this in the first edit )

Edited by eveln

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Wow. So many uneducated opinions, I've never felt like the adult in the room before. Congratulations to you all. (barring Hlass of course).

 

Statistically speaking, you are unlikely to ever be attacked by a shark. Doesn't mean I go swimming near dawn or dusk by myself at the beach.

 

Why the FUCK would you take a chance that you will mentally retard your child for life, putting a financial burden on yourself, and future family and the state after you die ? Emotional burdens that you JUST had to have one drink because "statistically speaking" it shouldn't have happened.

 

To the moron who said he hasn't met a woman who hasn't craved alcohol during pregnancy, good effort. Every woman that you know that has been pregnant can be classified as an alcoholic. Great friends.

 

For all those people who want to rabbit on about soft cheeses, do you even know what the fuck you are talking about ? Cheese made with pastuerised milk, including soft cheeses, are perfectly safe to eat for pregnant women. Good work on making yourselves look even more stupid.

 

For the others who want to bring up any other 'dangers' of living with pregnancy, holy fuck there is a danger that while any of you are mouth breathing you may inhale a fly and choke to death. However mouth breathing for you lot is a NECESSARY RISK, no matter how 'statistically small" the chances of you echoking to death on a fly is. Women shouldn't stop living life, pregnant or not, but they also shouldn't take UNECESSARY RISKS like drinking because you are selfish and can't go a measly 9 months without either the taste and/or buzz of alcohol.

 

Google LISTERIA. I'm a WOMAN who has been pregnant and given birth to FOUR healthy children. Go suck a fucking salami!

 

(oh and btw - my mother is and my grandmother was - before she died of a brain tumour -a trained nurse)

 

Don't come in here and diss those who have had children - with all the cravings - and those Atomicans in the medical profession (of which there are a few here - we ain't all young male computer geeks)

Edited by DEVERE

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Google LISTERIA. I'm a WOMAN who has been pregnant and given birth to FOUR healthy children. Go suck a fucking salami!

For those interested : Listeria

 

EDIT : Oh, and I wouldn't recommend sucking on a salami - it's listed as a high risk food for Listeria...

 

Where is Listeria found?

 

Listeria bacteria are widespread and commonly found in soil, silage, sewage, birds and animals. They have also been found in a variety of foods, including raw meat, raw vegetables and some processed foods. Sometimes, it is not possible to identify which particular food caused a person's illness as symptoms may not appear for 3 to 70 days after eating contaminated food.

 

Outbreaks of Listeria infection due to foods such as soft cheeses, milk, coleslaw, hot dogs and patÉ have have been reported in Europe, America and Australia.

 

How can I avoid Listeria infection?

 

As Listeria bacteria are commonly found in the environment, they are impossible to eradicate. Some exposure to the bacteria is unavoidable. Most people are, however, at low risk of Listeria infection.

 

Prevention is Better Than Cure

 

People at risk from Listeria infection can reduce their risk of infection by:

 

Saying no to high risk foods (see below)

Always handling food safely (see safe food handling and storage)

Avoiding contact with any animal afterbirth (placenta) and with aborted animal foetuses, as listeria infection has been known to cause illness and abortion in animals.

 

High risk foods

 

These foods should be avoided:

 

Ready-to-eat seafood such as smoked fish and smoked mussels, oysters or raw seafood such as sashimi or sushi.

Pre-prepared or stored salads, including coleslaw and fresh fruit salad

Drinks made from fresh fruit and/or vegetables where washing procedures are unknown (excluding pasteurised or canned juices).

Pre-cooked meat products which are eaten without further cooking or heating, such as patÉ, sliced deli meat, including ham, strass and salami, and cooked diced chicken (as used in sandwich shops).

Any unpasteurised milk or foods made from unpasteurised milk.

Soft serve ice-creams.

Soft cheeses, such as brie, camembert, ricotta and feta (these are safe if cooked and served hot).

Ready-to-eat foods, including leftover meats, which have been refrigerated for more than one day.

Dips and salad dressings in which vegetables may have been dipped.

Raw vegetable garnishes.

Edited by Mac Dude

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Anyone else find it funny that he didn't consider soft cheese a risk at all (and in fact it's just something proscribed by "the doctors"), but at the same time taking the "zero is the only safe option" route.

 

In any event, the thread isn't about "Should I drink during pregnancy". Obviously the best answer is "no".

The question(s) was (were?):

 

Should I have server her alcohol.

 

and implicitly:

 

Will one serve of alcohol effect a baby.

 

The answers are:

You probably should, I don't believe RSA requires you not to serve a pregnant woman. It's their choice.

Statistically, one serve of alcohol will probably not effect your baby, although there appears to be a bit of disagreement over the risk vs dosage.

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Just to go on a tangent here in between the pitchforks.

 

Not being a father, or planning on becoming one in the immediate future, I had not heard this about soft cheeses and pregnancy, or if I had in the past, I just didn't retain that information. I must admit, it isn't high on my list of things to know about. So I want to thank those who have argued about it and posted information. But to my tangent.

 

Over here, we see it is a danger to those people normally considered 'at risk':

 

People who are at particular risk of infection include:

 

Anyone whose immune system has been weakened by disease or illness, for example:

  • Cancer
  • Leukaemia
  • Diabetes
  • AIDS
  • Liver or kidney disease
  • The elderly
  • Pregnant women and their unborn babies
  • Anyone on medication such as prednisone or cortisone as this can also suppress the immune system. This includes organ transplant patients.

    Newborn babies

This got my attention, as I am one a part of one of those groups (and it's something I've thought about making a topic for, but I digress further), and it has never been brought to my attention during any of my recent 3 or 6 monthly visits to a dietitian, doctor or endocrinologist, and I eat a fuckton of soft cheese on a weekly basis. Indeed today, I will be eating Camembert and turkey breast for lunch.

 

Hmmm, I will be running this fact sheet past my Dr and endo in September, and see what he has to say.

 

Please note, I'm not doubting it for one second, or questioning the validity of chief medical officers who made the fact sheet. Instead, I'm merely curious in my ~20 years of insulin dependency, it's never been brought up as a risk I should be watching.

 

Perhaps:

 

Posted Image

 

?

Edited by elfinke

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I'm not a doctor.

And I want to make sure that you understand in addition to that, I'm speculating wildly here :P~

 

It's possible that only a subset of diabetes sufferers have compromised immune systems.

It probably depends on the type of diabetes, and also the condition of the sufferer.

 

Most of the other groups on the list, are extremely susceptible to disease.

If you have AIDS, or some forms of cancer, etc then depending on your condition at the time, you might have next to no immune system. Things like Aspergillis, a fungus that is present everywhere, can become a real issue for someone in that state.

 

If Listeria hasn't been raised as an issue by your doctor, etc, then odds are you are fine. You might not be in a state that makes you particularly susceptible.

Bear in mind that some diabetes sufferers have massive amounts of peripheral damage to their bodies as a result of the disease. I'd expect someone in that state would be much worse off than someone who takes their diabetes and is otherwise healthy.

 

So don't stress out.

 

That said, you should always specifically ask your doctor(s) about any concerns you have.

 

EDIT:

Just read scruffy's post :)

Edited by TinBane

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Hmmm, I will be running this fact sheet past my Dr and endo in September, and see what he has to say.

 

Please note, I'm not doubting it for one second, or questioning the validity of chief medical officers who made the fact sheet. Instead, I'm merely curious in my ~20 years of insulin dependency, it's never been brought up as a risk I should be watching.

 

i'll save you a brief wait

 

if you're type 1 diabetic (and i presume being on here with a 20 year pedigree on insulin) then you need to recognise that despite the same generic name (diabetes), type 2 diabetics have a whole lot of other problems, not just a need for insulin

 

in fact, afaik, type 1 can't produce insulin (maybe due to a viral pancreatic insult ? mumps), whereas type 2 initially make far too much insulin, and are resistant to the effects, and then their pancreas fatigues and they are fubar

 

and insulin for them is essentially pouring fuel on their fire

 

hth

 

edit :

 

additionally, all the people who are born get sick, but :

 

"In persons at risk, symptoms may include fever, headache,

tiredness, aches and pains. Less common symptoms are

diarrhoea, nausea and abdominal cramps. Symptoms

may progress to more serious forms of the illness, such as

meningitis and septicaemia.

Symptoms in pregnant women may be mild, but listeriosis

can result in miscarriage, premature birth or, in rare

cases, stillbirth."

 

being sick is inconvenient, but killing a baby has significant emotional sequalae

 

and kills a baby

 

don't you go googling toxoplasmosis and pregnancy...

Edited by scruffy1

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Hmmm, I will be running this fact sheet past my Dr and endo in September, and see what he has to say.

 

Please note, I'm not doubting it for one second, or questioning the validity of chief medical officers who made the fact sheet. Instead, I'm merely curious in my ~20 years of insulin dependency, it's never been brought up as a risk I should be watching.

 

i'll save you a brief wait

 

if you're type 1 diabetic (and i presume being on here with a 20 year pedigree on insulin) then you need to recognise that despite the same generic name (diabetes), type 2 diabetics have a whole lot of other problems, not just a need for insulin

 

Thanks.

 

T2's do indeed have a other problems to deal with (indeed, my optometrist refers to T2 diabetics as 'pretend diabetics' though she is being facetious, with regards to how they don't have the same exacting and immediate need to take care of themselves).

 

That flyer with the broad 'diabetics' is a perfect example of how frustrating it can be as a'diabetic', as even though I was expecting it to be referring to T2's more than T1's I wasn't sure. In short, (and this is something I argue about on an weekly basis) it's nowhere near good enough to simply say 'diabetics' when referring to things like this, though I understand the reason why that is the way it is.

 

I am reasonably well across the differences between T1 and T2, which is in part due to the general public having absolutely woeful knowledge of how diabetes actually works and my desire (and sometimes, need) to educate those around me.

 

/edit: Just saw TinBane's post. I'm far from stressed out :D, rather endlessly curious (and talkative) about (lots of things) T1 diabetes. As the first diagnosed in my family for as far back as can the family tree has been traced, it's something I spend a lot of time reading about and trying to know everything about, often to the annoyance of Dr's and endo's, as I often know as much or more about it as they do (indeed, endo's are a pet hate of mine and I've fired a few over the years, as they know a lot about the science but fuck all about living day to day with the disease).

 

/edit2: Informative digression over! Back to pitchforks and hating salami!

Edited by elfinke

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I am reasonably well across the differences between T1 and T2, which is in part due to the general public having absolutely woeful knowledge of how diabetes actually works and my desire (and sometimes, need) to educate those around me.

 

/edit: Just saw TinBane's post. I'm far from stressed out :D, rather endlessly curious (and talkative) about (lots of things) T1 diabetes. As the first diagnosed in my family for as far back as can the family tree has been traced, it's something I spend a lot of time reading about and trying to know everything about, often to the annoyance of Dr's and endo's, as I often know as much or more about it as they do (indeed, endo's are a pet hate of mine and I've fired a few over the years, as they know a lot about the science but fuck all about living day to day with the disease).

 

/edit2: Informative digression over! Back to pitchforks and hating salami!

 

you should consider qualifying as a diabetes educator

 

even medical school is pretty fucking woeful about the completely different disease processes in 1 vs 2, and i got most of my knowledge courtesy of a very interested gp who is part of an impressively manic mailing list for interested doctors (we get together as a group annually for a non-sponsored conference on all things medical and geek)

 

it is very difficult to find an endo with big knowledge on insulin resistance as a distinct entity and the precursor to overt type 2

 

i manage all my suspect cases very aggressively, including getting insulin levels done with a glucose tolerance test - i liken the current generic approach to type 2 as collecting the car wreck from the ravine whereas there needs to be a well lit stop sign 100m back up the road

 

waiting for blood sugars over 7 to get involved is considering a brake check after the dashboard hits your face

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There is a symmetry about alcohol during pregnancy and pregnancy during alcohol.

 

Both are generally bad ideas.

 

Nature's good like that.

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There is a symmetry about alcohol during pregnancy and pregnancy during alcohol.

 

Both are generally bad ideas.

 

Nature's good like that.

 

Now where would teenage pregnancy be without the liberal application of alcohol ?

Edited by plebsmacker

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I knew a girl who drank till the day she gave birth, kid was fine, but i thought she was a moron.

 

I personally would never drink whilst pregnant, and also would have been nervous having even a shot of something, not really worth the risk, while you're pregnant you can get away with eating peanut butter out of the jar, fuck alcohol.

peanut butter is a source of aflatoxins, which are embryotoxic; it gets through to breast milk too i think

 

 

 

Fuuuuuck

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