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BobTheMonkey

Carbon Tax and Power Bills.

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I do get where you're coming from and believe me I understand the pitfalls of true democracy it's just that despite my deeply held cynicism, I'm something of an idealist.

I realise that no one wants to make unpopular decisions and I also realise that with human nature being what it is we're never going to see any sort of meaningful political reform, they're only going to get worse.

As for dystopian? Like I said, nowhere near the level of 1984 and I don't expect to ever get there, but we have gone a little way down the path. For damn sure we are a nanny state and that's the first step to dystopia.

I agree. Unfortunately there is no "best" system, just different compromises.

The nanny state is the inevitable counter-weight to the idea of non-personal responsibility.

The increase in corporate and government responsibility has had the unfortunate side-effect of making people expect them to take responsibility for everything.

There are some thing (like climate change) where nothing will happen unless the government makes it happen, but there are also a lot of people unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions.

I guess if everyone could, then true democracy would have one less hurdle. I'm not sure that our representational democracy is the problem.

 

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

Churchill for God

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

Churchill for God

 

A man after my own heart!

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Like I said the greens have there hand up Gillards skirt firmly cupped around her balls.

Since you don't agree with the present arrangement (which is as described by Wingnut0021 above) what would you have prefered to happen after the election?

Edited by Hlass

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

Churchill for God

"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes"

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

Not a good human.

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"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

"Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others that have been tried."

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

Churchill for God

"I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes"

 

~ Winston Churchill

 

Not a good human.

 

Attribute the full quote at least, not a select fragment:

 

"I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected."

 

What is also left out, is that gas shells weren't used in the war to which you are referring, they were held in reserve, in case their opponents used poison shells on them, which was a very real prospect.

 

The way he dealt with Ghandi etc, was pretty bad. But then he was a product of his time. He might not have been the worlds greatest civil libertarian and equal rights advocate, but he put the nazi's back in their box.

Edited by TinBane

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I've been away and could not believe how much power bills have gone up.

Is it gouging or it really is the carbon tax causing this?

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I can't say i have a problem with the carbon tax. You use more, you pay more, use less pay less. And as for the wealth being distributed, why not? What's acouple of hundred to higher income earners when it would mean a hell of a lot to people in the lower income brackets?

 

But then again i'm a giver and most people are not so i suppose i can understand why some people are having a fit over this, but really a few hundred a year, who cares?

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I can't say i have a problem with the carbon tax. You use more, you pay more, use less pay less. And as for the wealth being distributed, why not? What's acouple of hundred to higher income earners when it would mean a hell of a lot to people in the lower income brackets?

 

But then again i'm a giver and most people are not so i suppose i can understand why some people are having a fit over this, but really a few hundred a year, who cares?

How does wealth distribution help the environment?

 

It doesn't and no-one claims it does so I'm not certain why you keep bringing it up.

 

For the record I'd only support a carbon tax if the money was invested in renewable energy research & projects. I think it doesn't do anything otherwise, as you've said the price of electricity has gone up far more than the carbon tax will impact it and it didn't reduce industry usage and barely impacted household usage.

 

But the weird passive aggressive semi-relevant questions is just begging for people to think only annoying prats think that way.

Edited by SexKitten

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I read somewhere that a lot of the money raised was going overseas.

I don't see how that reduces carbon outputs here. A lot if doesn't seem to make sense or I just don't understand it.

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Because while we are shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic, it's sinking.

Which means anything we do is wrong and/or pointless, so why are you banging on about wealth distribution?

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People can reduce the impact the carbon tax will have on them by limiting consumption of goods which produce more emissions outputs during their production. That's the purpose of the carbon tax, not wealth redistribution.

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Because while we are shuffling the deck chairs on the titanic, it's sinking.

Which means anything we do is wrong and/or pointless, so why are you banging on about wealth distribution?

 

Reducing our carbon output could ba a start? Maybe start there ..

 

Wasting money on cheap import solar panels and tinfoil roof insulation .. And wealth distribution, is maybe not one of them.

 

Doesn't really answer my question, but fine.

 

How do we reduce our carbon output?

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That sounds good to me. So now all we have to do is raise the hundreds of millions (billions) per plant required to convert/build new power stations into gas powered. No private company is going to do it without massive government subsidisation. So we need to raise that cash and convince the government to use it for that purpose.

 

How we going to do that?

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the 'wealth redistribution' became a part of the carbon tax because the Libs ran a scare campaign against the cost of the tax on households forcing the government to react. A similar approach was used by Keating against the GST.

 

As far as I'm aware it wasn't part of early versions of the tax and is of little benefit from a CO2 emmissions perspective.

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I like the way you repeat things as if you think no-one agrees. It's very passionate.

 

Now how do we get the government to grow a pair and cut the crap?

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So it doesn't matter what happens to the money then. Oh well. It was fun while it lasted.

Edited by tantryl

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