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TheSingularity

Dare I Suggest A Programming FAQ Thread For Newbies

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Hey all,

 

I'm a newbie in a sense myself when it comes to programming but more I haven't really gotten into it always other things I'm busy with or prioritise over learning to program. I was thinking something like this might be a good idea: http://www.binrev.com/forums/index.php/top...-newbie-hq-faq/ this is more hacking based I must say but a pure programming one would still work well for this community(mods if you want to delete the link go ahead I can vouch for the fact though its a White Hat hacking community that isn't out to break the law check the rules out on it yourself if you want). So I could begin writing up some stuff for it but I currently don't have time to and don't actually know much from experience just from what I've read, which is a lot.

 

Anyway thought it might be a good idea and would solve the problem, well it's not really a problem just the occurance of the Help A Newbie Learn threads popping up all the time and somewhere that has a concise list of links, tutorials, advice, on how to learn what is best suited to you what are some helpful sites etc.

 

So anyone think it's a good idea or?

 

Any responses are appreciated.

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Hmm interesting...Yeah it isn't very active in this section =S...Just thought I might suggest it as a concise FAQ for the new version of AtomicMPC might get this section active again maybe...

 

Edit: Oh I forgot to toss in the question to do with what is the best language to learn if you want to program artificial intelligence. I've done enough waiting for The Singularity (well not really only became aware of it this year) and I want to help achieve it. So... Any advice would be helpful and for a decent basic tutorial for the suggested language first off.

Edited by thesingularity

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Hmm interesting...Yeah it isn't very active in this section =S...Just thought I might suggest it as a concise FAQ for the new version of AtomicMPC might get this section active again maybe...

 

Edit: Oh I forgot to toss in the question to do with what is the best language to learn if you want to program artificial intelligence. I've done enough waiting for The Singularity (well not really only became aware of it this year) and I want to help achieve it. So... Any advice would be helpful and for a decent basic tutorial for the suggested language first off.

Yeah some more activity would be nice but what do you do.

 

One language to look at is Lisp, it's old but still quite useful, the uni's primarily used lisp for AI research back when most uni's had AI labs.

 

You will get bogged down with lisp now if you are looking at trying to make something that works, If in that case it's usually recommended to use C++ (Warning C++ may cause irreversible brain damage) or Java.

 

If you use Java you should be able to bounce idea's off a few people here but i'm not sure if we have many people here into AI programming.

 

More importantly, how much programming experience do you have? do you have any experience with AI? and last but not least, are you doing this from a theoretical viewpoint or are you actually looking at trying to produce something practical?

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Mainly practical I think. and no, no experience at all I've just read a lotttt on Binary Revolution and multiple other places here and there. I've also noticed most AI stuff that has details about it on the net seems to be in Java or well robot programming is it seems also from what I've seen.

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Mainly practical I think. and no, no experience at all I've just read a lotttt on Binary Revolution and multiple other places here and there. I've also noticed most AI stuff that has details about it on the net seems to be in Java or well robot programming is it seems also from what I've seen.

Well just remember this, AI programming tends to be... problematic.

 

I take it you are looking mainly at robotics?

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Robotics...Hmm you could say that considering I'm looking at doing Mechatronic Engineering when I'm out of High School...Main reason for that though is I like the idea of being able to build whatever I want...Thanks to watching Iron Man hahaa was like hmm what is the most like Iron Man but is a job and found Mechatronic Engineering. Although knowing me it won't be the only degree I do I have this want to learn everything and anything.

 

Have you heard of the Singularity Theory? I can explain it in a sense if you want. That's the main thing besides building a perpetual motion machine I've got in mind that I want to do first (yes I know perpetual motion is impossible, well it's supposed to be). Well it's something I want to help achieve so...And ever since I found out about it I've been interested more in the ability of artificial intelligence being able to learn like the SOINN robot made in Japan and the neurosynaptic chips IBM made that were a computational replica of a macaque monkeys brain.

Edited by thesingularity

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Robotics...Hmm you could say that considering I'm looking at doing Mechatronic Engineering when I'm out of High School...Main reason for that though is I like the idea of being able to build whatever I want...Thanks to watching Iron Man hahaa was like hmm what is the most like Iron Man but is a job and found Mechatronic Engineering. Although knowing me it won't be the only degree I do I have this want to learn everything and anything.

 

Have you heard of the Singularity Theory? I can explain it in a sense if you want. That's the main thing besides building a perpetual motion machine I've got in mind that I want to do first (yes I know perpetual motion is impossible, well it's supposed to be). Well it's something I want to help achieve so...And ever since I found out about it I've been interested more in the ability of artificial intelligence being able to learn like the SOINN robot made in Japan and the neurosynaptic chips IBM made that were a computational replica of a macaque monkeys brain.

I do know singularity theory and look forward to the day.

 

Heh, i should have realized you were still at school... there's this sense of hopes and dreams radiating from you,

 

Make sure that you do realize that you are talking about a life times work (and probably more) with one of those projects.

 

Either way, welcome to the forums.

 

Hopefully you stay around cause we need some more technical discussions going on!

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Oh I'm a pessimist though because my life has been shit and I see technology as one of the best ways to help solve the worlds problems. But I'm also a total smartass (well you could call it that not that I actually point out people are idiots very often unless they actually are...) in a sense because of the fact I am really intelligent...skipped year 10 to year 11 but too bad my year was a fuck up (depression) and so I have to redo year 11 anyway -.-...not that its a problem changed schools half way through the year because the private school I was at was too easy and wasn't giving me hard enough work...blah blah blah enough about me...

 

Anyway I recently after watching Iron Man decided what is most like that and discovered Mechatronic Engineering because it encompasses so many forms of engineering so thought that would be a good place to start. Also wanting to build Iron Man's computer display system he has running with the lasers and the way it displays in the air I actually see that as being simpler then most people realise and would be a lot easier to do then other holographic means they are trying out like the recent article on PhysOrg about them progressing with it. Already got an idea on how to implement it.

 

Thank you for the welcoming I was on this forum once before but made a thread in the Green Room under another account which didn't go down too well so after a while of me avoiding this forum I rejoined under a new user.

 

Yes it seems like I've just told my life story to a stranger but I haven't pointed out any security facts so I'm not too bothered and I don't see any problem arising from it anyway taht could cause harm to myself so meh.

 

I like one of the ideas involving the Singularity Theory to do with the involvement of nanobots that are highly capable which would go into our bloodstream and make us invincible thus keeping us as a human just with little robots in us making us not have any health problems and being injured etc. My mum reasons that is the main reason I'm interested in it is because it would solve all my health problems but I just see that as a plus because with it the possibilities are endless in a sense you would make a technological god. The other problem though is I actually am Christian so you could ask how can you believe that is possible when you are Christian well I want to make sure and see if it is possible or not some also say the Singularity is impossible because an artificial intelligence can't have free will or be concious etc etc but that's philosophical and I won't get into that here, my opinion that is and other points I've discovered on both sides of the argument. But I also see it as a way to confirm my faith as such because if it isn't well it backs up my beliefs and is just another part of the evidence I've acquired if it is possible and we achieve it well all the better unless it goes Terminator like then =S...

 

Woah that was a long post...woopsy I got on a role.

 

Edit: Now I've seen it posted maybe it wasn't as long as I thought oh well I enjoyed it and hopefully someone finds this information interesting and maybe useful...

Edited by thesingularity

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Woah that was a long post...woopsy I got on a role.

'roll', mr very intelligent :p ha I kid, it was so easy it wasn't worth it :p

welcome, anyway :) others here are intelligent, i make jokes :)

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Yeah I don't pay much attention to my spelling on the net so have fun with that. Yes I understand it's a joke just having an argument with someone I thought was a friend but turned out to be another tool that puts words into your mouth that you never said =D fun fun.

 

And I'm not going to correct it otherwise it ruins your quote so =P...even though that's a good thing for you...

 

Edit: I just remembered I should have mentioned the fact recently well this year it seems I've developed this habit of replacing words with other words that aren't actually the word I intended it to be -.- so I may have done that as well in my comment before...=S

Edited by thesingularity

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meh, replace words, i do that all the time. usually replacing non computer words with popular IT terms. muscle memory of sorts from writting many documents.

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Haha I find that rather amusing that someone else does that...Don to ask me to explain why because I do not know why...Anyway major derailing going on here O.o any tips on programming languages to learn for the artificial intelligence field kikz?

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Yeah don't go into the green room without thick skin and possibly some flame proof equipment,

 

Other than that you'll find most people to be pretty good here.

 

Ohh and FYI if you are starting to learn programming from scratch, most of the people here will suggest python (as do i), its a nice and easy language but you can do some pretty heavy duty stuff in it.

 

I just did a quick Google for Python AI and there was quite a few hits came up so have a look see if there's anything that catches your eye.

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You should have taken part in Stanford's online AI classes.

Damn, Thanks Vito.

 

I completely forgot about that too, stanford is pretty much the mecca for AI.

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AI language Dunno. when I studied AI at uni (12 years ago now! - only 1 subject), I used Java for my assignment. We had a choice, and the assignment was semester long, the one project. It wasn't so much about the language but about the concepts. We had to build an intelligent agent that would deliver parcels around and office, getting keys from a particular place. The office having a defined layout... blah blah.

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Damn that was the one they suggested on Binary Revolution as well when I made a thread asking about AI programming. Missed out all the way back then too -.-. How would I have been able to taken part anyway, I have to add because I found it more when I tried to learn programming when I was younger is there anything in particular you should know it maths because back when I was fairly younger I tried to but there was algebra or something that I didn't yet comprehend and I was like err WTF? Anyway I would probably understand it now but just a heads up would be helpful.

 

I just read over my old thread on Binary Revolution titled "AI Programming (Where To Begin.)" and realised what I had come to the conclusion of last time. Maybe you are able to answer the conclusion that was a question here. The question was how exactly do you make a programming language as such from scratch? Because I had determined that making a programming language that understood the English language would be in a sense an AI in itself and in a way like Siri but you would be able to make programs with it so it would be far beyond Siri but would only allow typed English text. Why I say this as well is I read when I started investigating that, that Java was made quite recently and the inventor of it is still alive and working for some company I remember reading on PhysOrg somewhere (I think it was something about autonomous robot boats that are gathering information while travelling from America to Australia's shores and Japan's shores or something). So it had me intrigued he was able to actually make a programming language because would the programming language have needed to be made with another programming language making the endeavour in a sense mute... This idea came to thought it that it would be in a sense easier for people to program ANYTHING and would basically be limitless in a sense because you could give it access to the internet and it could basically learn boundlessly. So it would change from just being a programming language to a learning artificial intelligence to basically an all knowing artificial intelligence that would be limitless in what it was able to do. Oh gosh I'm on my crazy idea/thought roll again...

 

Anyway any thoughts on that is also appreciated. I haven't yet actually begun learning to program because I always seemed to not be motivated or get involved in something else that took up my time etc so I never got around to it. I did at one point though read the entire book of "Hacking For Dummies" I believe it was which wasn't helpful at all -.- so I felt I wasted my time doing all that and that probably demotivated me as well. I had also read somewhere gathering decent tutorials and ebooks and books/texts on programming was a good idea before you start because one might be better then the other or you might be able to understand one better. The problem was that was all I did gather material to read and not read it and then I had to reformat my HDD when I was doing this when I was younger and somehow it didn't get transferred to my USB -.- and was erased so...=( ruined any plans anyway.

Edited by thesingularity

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an agent that scoures the internet... sounds like a google bot :p There are natural language parses. I attribute a decent understanding of the english language to that AI subject 12 years ago and an assignment to make a natural language parses that would parse a set set of phrases correctly. Can't remember what the hell software we used but it wasn't a programming language. It was a specific programme, on linux, and we had to build up the lexicon and write the parsing rules (define the grammar)

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O_O sounds interesting go on lol. Can you use it as an actual programming language though? My idea is the artificial intelligence would actually learn from what is on the net not just information gather for crowd sourcing purposes so they know what to sell to you and make money off you -.-

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I think the current www would need to evolve into the semantic web before it can be used to train an intelligent agent. There's perhaps nothing particularly difficult about using the www as the inputs, as opposed to anything else except making sense of all the crap on it. Which i guess is another problem. The agent would have to be smart enough to know when it's scanning/reading something that is falicious. I guess that's going to get tricky, discerning between what is useful and what is not useful, while the agent is training (initially learning).

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I think the current www would need to evolve into the semantic web before it can be used to train an intelligent agent. There's perhaps nothing particularly difficult about using the www as the inputs, as opposed to anything else except making sense of all the crap on it. Which i guess is another problem. The agent would have to be smart enough to know when it's scanning/reading something that is falicious. I guess that's going to get tricky, discerning between what is useful and what is not useful, while the agent is training (initially learning).

I remember reading something a while back where someone was/had created a script to detect fallacious statements within forums, from memory it was pretty effective too.

 

Can't find the damn thing now.

 

Edit: this is fairly interesting though:

 

The chinese room argument

Edited by Xen

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Ahh the Chinese Room argument, i find that point of view rather silly but I can't remember what my point of view was on it but you may have a view similar after reading the comments in this link http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/201...ntelligent.html : basically New Scientists article on the Chinese Room with a little video demonstration.

 

Yes I did think of the problem of the AI discovering multiple millions of pieces of writing that are of no importance and or are bullshit on the internet. That's why I had the thought of having it only access particular sites such as Britannica's Encyclopedia and University sites and NASA's website etc trustworthy ones that can't have articles written by just anyone.

 

Oh part of the argument I think I had to do with the Chinese Room is the fact does that make us as humans just programmed because we go through school to learn, and someone little chemical reactions in our head give us the ability to comprehend and remember information so you could say we are not intelligent at all. Anyway I don't want to get too into it because it begins to become philosophical and starts up my train of thought again on the fact you can't undeniably, irrefutably prove anything. Which I also had the train of thought say 2 months back of the fact even science in a sense could be wrong because as far as we know because we expected a particular outcome that outcome happened because we thought it would etc anyway just crazy shit that was messing with my brain not a good train of thought mind you. It finally stopped bothering me after I gathered multiple articles about it on Wikipedia and didn't actually read them -.- oh well there for next time it happens. Oh and the other fact that just because you repeat an experiment multiple times doesn't mean it is correct you materials could just be causing that etc etc etc. I have a wide range of thoughts and arguments on the idea of proof with original extended from a thought on existence.

 

...Anyway haha

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So no one knows how to make a program from scratch or knows where to point me to? Or would it be a better idea just to learn programming and make an artificial intelligence from there?

 

If either any links to tutorials on where to begin would be appreciated and helpful.

 

Thanks.

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