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UberPenguin

xbox 720 specs

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Why don't they just have an "expansion" slot to upgrade the GPU in consoles? This has always surprised me.

 

I remember when the N64 had the RAM slot, to install (4MB?) More RAM. Was cool, and I thought would be the future of console evolution.

 

Just chuck a bigger GPU in your console every two years or whenever they release a new Xbox GPU. You would think they would make more money doing that every two year, then two years after producing a new console; so running a 4-year cycle. Makes more sense to me than running the same console for 5-6 years anyway.

 

Obviously if they use an APU style processor this time around that will become more difficult in some ways, as it will be more like replacing a PC CPU, rather than just pulling out a PCI device.

I thought the idea it didnt change was so that games being developed for the system could be optimized to fully utilize the system.

If they kept changing the hard ware wouldnt that cause issues for the Developers in terms of game optimization?

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If they kept changing the hard ware wouldnt that cause issues for the Developers in terms of game optimization?

Well no, it'd be just more like PC gaming. Except the developers wouldn't have to make it so the game could be scaled for older GPUs

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Why don't they just have an "expansion" slot to upgrade the GPU in consoles? This has always surprised me.

 

sure but some people want a device that just works and that they don't have to 'upgrade' every year/2years to play the 'latest and greatest'

 

 

They don't have to upgrade it. But it means that people who do could play 60FPS/1080P instead of 30FPS/720P for the new titles, while those who don't get stuck on 30FPS or 720P whatever is needed to run them.

 

Means the people who are willing to spend the extra $150-$200 or whatever they want to charge to keep the games looking nice can do so, they make more money, their OEM for GPU's make more money, and PC's get to keep dev support up to date. It's win/win/win/win as far as I can tell. People whop want to save money can do the same thing they are doing now, playing games that look like Pac Man on a dated system.

 

I thought the idea it didnt change was so that games being developed for the system could be optimized to fully utilize the system.

If they kept changing the hard ware wouldnt that cause issues for the Developers in terms of game optimization?

As said, the devs can just have a simple hardware detection on the game (PC games already do it). It would set 720P if you're running the launch GPU, and 1080P if You're running the mid-cycle upgrade GPU.

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Why don't they just have an "expansion" slot to upgrade the GPU in consoles? This has always surprised me.

 

sure but some people want a device that just works and that they don't have to 'upgrade' every year/2years to play the 'latest and greatest'

 

 

They don't have to upgrade it. But it means that people who do could play 60FPS/1080P instead of 30FPS/720P for the new titles, while those who don't get stuck on 30FPS or 720P whatever is needed to run them.

 

Means the people who are willing to spend the extra $150-$200 or whatever they want to charge to keep the games looking nice can do so, they make more money, their OEM for GPU's make more money, and PC's get to keep dev support up to date. It's win/win/win/win as far as I can tell. People whop want to save money can do the same thing they are doing now, playing games that look like Pac Man on a dated system.

 

 

sounds great assuming they never release more than one upgrade for the system. The 360 is nearly 7 years old now. If they only released one upgrade a year thats still 7 upgrade kits out there... this also means that games have to be written to target a variety of system specs, and mummy or granny can't just go into a store and buy a game for the kids as a christmas/birthday present because they might not be able to run it... which kind of defeats the purpose of a fixed hardware platform.

 

The idea has merit but it kinda blurs the line between a console and a PC you can build and upgrade yourself, in which case I wonder why wouldn't you just buy a PC?

 

 

Regarding the N64 expansion pack... that's nowhere near as drastic an upgrade as a replacement GPU.

In fact I think only Donkey Kong 64 and Majoras Mask required it to play and DK64 actually came with the expansion. (at least I remember buying a copy that did back then)

Edited by DonutKing

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Why don't they just have an "expansion" slot to upgrade the GPU in consoles? This has always surprised me.

one word: standardisation

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Regarding the N64 expansion pack... that's nowhere near as drastic an upgrade as a replacement GPU.

In fact I think only Donkey Kong 64 and Majoras Mask required it to play and DK64 actually came with the expansion. (at least I remember buying a copy that did back then)

perfect dark needed it as well or else it was a very crippled game. (it also was sold with it)

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Regarding the N64 expansion pack... that's nowhere near as drastic an upgrade as a replacement GPU.

In fact I think only Donkey Kong 64 and Majoras Mask required it to play and DK64 actually came with the expansion. (at least I remember buying a copy that did back then)

perfect dark needed it as well or else it was a very crippled game. (it also was sold with it)

 

yea I remember getting it with perfect dark, dam thinking about those days makes me depressed, I wish they made FPS games like that still.

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No you don't. leave those games in your memory, they are much better in there :P

 

My point was they made it work then, why not again? Having one upgrade in each consoles life cycle doesn't ruin standardisation any more than having 3-4 consoles on the market at any one time, don't give me that lame excuse.

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No you don't. leave those games in your memory, they are much better in there :P

 

My point was they made it work then, why not again? Having one upgrade in each consoles life cycle doesn't ruin standardisation any more than having 3-4 consoles on the market at any one time, don't give me that lame excuse.

 

Yeah but look at the Nintendo Disc Drive they killed that upgrade off rather quickly!

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No you don't. leave those games in your memory, they are much better in there :P

 

My point was they made it work then, why not again? Having one upgrade in each consoles life cycle doesn't ruin standardisation any more than having 3-4 consoles on the market at any one time, don't give me that lame excuse.

lol wut?

 

people buy consoles to get away from the costs of constantly upgrading.

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Wow, somehow you all keep missing what I am saying.

 

YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THE UPGRADE. YOU CAN CONTINUE TO USE YOUR ORIGINAL HARDWARE. THE UPGRADE IS THERE IF YOU WANT TO MAKE YOUR GAMEZ LOOK BETTAH!

 

Some people :P

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True, you don't have too, but people will feel compelled too, and lets face it, with consoles, people don't want too. This is why DK 64 came with the extra RAM as it was the first game to actually need it. Nintendo knew the backlash would be there.

 

And I would assume that the upgrade itself would be pricey (as they always are when compared to a PC upgrade). And quite frankly many console gamers who are soley console gamers tend to frown upon such ideals.

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Having one upgrade in each consoles life cycle doesn't ruin standardisation any more than having 3-4 consoles on the market at any one time, don't give me that lame excuse.

The problem I see with it is - if there's only one upgrade, and it came out 3 years into the life of the console (for arguments sake) - with the current consoles that upgrade would be 4 years old now.

 

 

4 years is a long time in technology. We'd still have the problem we have now where consoles are running on outdated hardware, holding the quality of the games back.

 

Sure you could buy it to make your 'gamez' look 'bettah'. But 3/4 years after the upgrade comes out more and more games are going to require it- it won't be an optional extra. They will probably release a new upgrade, potentially breaking compatibility with old games... the advantages of a console over a PC are slowly diminished.

 

Back when these machines came out 720p was pretty standard. Say there was an upgrade to make 1080p gameplay smooth if you were lucky enough to own a capable TV. Now that 1080p is prevalent, what's the next standard going to be? Will there be another upgrade again?

 

The other issue is why not just release an upgrade instead of a new console? Would certainly be cheaper. But what if the competition just releases a whole new console instead? Consumers might prefer to buy a whole new flashy system instead of trying to prolong the life of their 7 year old system.

Look at what happened to the Sega 32X and SegaCD, both didn't do very well in the marketplace.

 

Then you have the whole issue of user-installed upgrades and all the warranty nightmares that entails- you can bet that some hamfisted users will manage to break something when installing it. Simple stuff like the 32X and the N64 RAM cartridge were fairly foolproof but I daresay that a modern GPU is much more complex and won't be so simple to install.

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Wow, somehow you all keep missing what I am saying.

 

YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THE UPGRADE. YOU CAN CONTINUE TO USE YOUR ORIGINAL HARDWARE. THE UPGRADE IS THERE IF YOU WANT TO MAKE YOUR GAMEZ LOOK BETTAH!

 

Some people :P

just design the thing properly to begin with, xbox 720 should ideally come with something along the lines of a HD7850 with 2-3gb of vram, 8gb of ram, 1TB HDD as a minimum, blu ray, HDMI 1.4a out so we are not limited to 1080p in the future and it should be small, no bigger than the current 360.

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@Nesquick there's no way they could build that system and make enough of a profit in their $400-$600 console price bracket. It would be great for pc gamers but theres no way that they could do it. Maybe a 7770 but the next gen consoles are going to be looking at 1080p and then they'll release the xBox 1440^3 for 4k.

 

Microsoft doesnt want to be left behind with the tablet gimmic, and if WiiU and Playstation Vita are already doing it Microsoft will feel they pretty much have to. Of course I think they should make a better console to begin with and then add the touch remote as an extra but what do I know about making a console?

Edited by UberPenguin

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@Nesquick there's no way they could build that system and make enough of a profit in their $400-$600 console price bracket.

Just dropping some historical info, its not uncommon for them to actually make a net loss on hardware in order to get units in houses and then make money off peripherals, software and online subscriptions and then later start to turn profit on the late gen console sales as fabrication becomes cheaper.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loss_leader

"In the current generation of consoles; both Sony and Microsoft have sold their consoles, the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360, respectively, at a loss and made up for it through game software and accessory profits."

Edited by Bundy

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@Nesquick there's no way they could build that system and make enough of a profit in their $400-$600 console price bracket. It would be great for pc gamers but theres no way that they could do it. Maybe a 7770 but the next gen consoles are going to be looking at 1080p and then they'll release the xBox 1440^3 for 4k.

 

Microsoft doesnt want to be left behind with the tablet gimmic, and if WiiU and Playstation Vita are already doing it Microsoft will feel they pretty much have to. Of course I think they should make a better console to begin with and then add the touch remote as an extra but what do I know about making a console?

phenom 2 955 got as low as $110

mb $40

8g ram $36

1tb hdd $50 (at prices before floods)

so with pc parts that leaves plenty of room to spend ~$200 on the gpu and have it well under the ps3 launch price which leaves enough room for bits and pieces

i believe they can make them cheaper than the prices we pay for hardware retail and that what nesquick suggested is doable and worthwhile

 

as for a upgrade slot ram is nolonger expensive so they mayaswell just toss in 8-16g right now the slot would probably cost as much as just adding it its so dam cheap

but a single gpu upgrade so that people can go from a 720 30p system to a 1080 60p system for all old games ~ 3 year into the life of the console sounds like a good idea to me

Edited by Dasa

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Wow, somehow you all keep missing what I am saying.

 

YOU DON'T HAVE TO ACCEPT THE UPGRADE. YOU CAN CONTINUE TO USE YOUR ORIGINAL HARDWARE. THE UPGRADE IS THERE IF YOU WANT TO MAKE YOUR GAMEZ LOOK BETTAH!

 

Some people :P

just design the thing properly to begin with, xbox 720 should ideally come with something along the lines of a HD7850 with 2-3gb of vram, 8gb of ram, 1TB HDD as a minimum, blu ray, HDMI 1.4a out so we are not limited to 1080p in the future and it should be small, no bigger than the current 360.

 

And it would come in at $3000.

 

Its expensive to make a console, its no surprise that Sony and M$ were selling at a loss for quite some time before they started to make a profit. King_Tritan mentioned in a previous thread (Where dasa and I argued essentially the same thing as you) an interview with the design team of the 360 or something where they mentioned that spending money on extra ram ends up (or ended up, I really don't remember, but its worth tracking down the thread) costing the company around $1b US or something, which is ridiculous considering they wouldn't see a profit like that for a very long time, maybe even ever. Building a console with current PC spec hardware, while a good idea in the long run, is not worth it to a company, especially when its mainly PC GAMERS who actually complain about console graphics.

 

People who have never seen the potential Games have, don't know any better and so they won't care.

 

Another reason why I think unco_tomato's idea is actually quite a good idea, especially as a non-essential upgrade for PEOPLE WHO DONT GIVE 2 SHITS ABOUT GRAPHICS.

 

To expound on my capitalisation, why the hell has COD been the most successful console franchise ever when the graphics have barely gotten better since COD2?

Edited by NukeJockey

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I doubt it would cost $3000 to build what I said, but I know what your trying to say, it just would make more sense to get the hardware at a level that can run games in 1080P, for all we know though the HD6670 could be able to run games at 1080p quite well in a non windows environment.

Edited by nesquick

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Latest rumour about the xbox next (720 or whatever it will be called) is a touch screen controller much like the WiiU's supposed touch controller:

 

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/33536...troller-report/

Fuck that.

 

That will certainly make buying an extra controller extra hard on price.

 

I reckon that's just going a little too overboard. Some things should just stay simple.

Edited by Mr.Twinkie

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I doubt it would cost $3000 to build what I said, but I know what your trying to say, it just would make more sense to get the hardware at a level that can run games in 1080P, for all we know though the HD6670 could be able to run games at 1080p quite well in a non windows environment.

 

I meant the console would retail at that price, but it was an exaggeration. :P

 

The worst part is they don't use consumer hardware, so any arguments of how much ram will cost them are moot, especially when you take into consideration the fact that any ram modules and GPU/CPU chips they use are all integrated onto the motherboard, its not like they use add-in cards, theoretically that should be cheaper, but because its all custom, they need to mass produce them, which costs lots of money in itself, because they need to set up factories and shit for those specific purposes.

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I have a gut feeling that Microsoft want to make a more casual oriented console than the X360, more like somewhere between the Wii and X360 so I actually think it's possible to see a tablet and a Kinect bundled in the X720 at $300. So while those 6770 are dissapointing for core gamers I think Microsoft are thinking in terms of potential consumer base and further mainstream penetration.

 

I believe Microsoft are willing to sell the console at a loss at its launch but I remember reading that Steve Balmer has said they don't want to lose money on a console anymore so once they nail that supply chain it's got to be an entire box with peripherals at a cost point lower than $300. Consider Microsoft's current messaging for the X360, it's about entertainment & casual games.

Edited by King_TriTAN

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