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Mac Dude

When does support become spoiling?

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I'm on Substances side here.

 

My parents earnt too much money for me to get 1 cent from Centrelink. It's not a straightforward process to say "You are independant of your parents".

 

When 19 I tried to do the surviving out from home thing. I was trying to study electronic engineering. I worked 6 nights a week. I did odd jobs on weekends for extra money. Did not matter that I wasn't getting any money from mum or dad or anything like that. Centrelink denied me any financial support. Parents earnt too much. ONLY if I had moved out of home for safety reasons (or similar) which would require a police report OR a stat-dec from my parents declaring that I had been cut off would have gotten me assistance from Centrelink.

 

I lived on weetbix. (Sometimes I could afford milk). I had house mates to spread the costs. I did this for 9 months. I lost 30kg from poor nutrition. I left home weighing 90kg. Almost all muscle. I came home at 60kg. I wasn't healthy. Every week I was in at Centrelink trying to plead my case. $0.00 given to me by centrelink.

 

I dropped out. I ended up doing a trade.

 

Don't say it's easy. I had too much pride to ask mum and dad for food. If I was going to ask for food, I may as well live at home. I didn't want to live at home because where I lived was much closer to classes. (Home was on other side of city. Hours on busses on at least 1 hr drive. This is Canberra. That's ridiculous ok? I know in Sydney you have to do that to get next door)

 

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Edited by AccessDenied

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Why didn't you have a job BEFORE being kicked out of home? In my humble opinion every teenager should start a weekend job when they reach 15-16.

 

I know that substance-bashing is a favored sport around here, but I'll tell you this my friend. On discovering I might be without a roof in 5 days, which is fully 0.004% of the amount of time you had to prepare for your situation.

Why didn't you have a job BEFORE being kicked out of home? In my humble opinion every teenager should start a weekend job when they reach 15-16. So you had no job through High School, no job when at Uni, and then were surprised when your parents made you go to work for a change? Sounds like you had it pretty good up until you disowned your dad for not paying your bills anymore.

 

To be honest I don't know what I would have done in your dads situation, I probably wouldn't have let it get to the point where I was paying for your every need to begin with. There is too much self entitlement with a lot of todays students, it's kind of pathetic when you compare our system with the rest of the world and see we don't have it all that tough. Sure some countries have it even better than us, but its pretty bloody rare. If you were my kid you would have been working Saturday or Sunday at 16, ready for Uni at 18 and earning a steady enough income to survive largely on your own.

 

I'm on Substances side here.

 

My parents earnt too much money for me to get 1 cent from Centrelink. It's not a straightforward process to say "You are independant of your parents".

Yes it is, you show them your pay slips for the past 6 months. If it's over something tiny like 12K you are independent. If you have been living off your parents and not working for the past 6 months, then the Government is correct in assuming you aren't independent - You're living off your parents. Should you have a problem with that arrangement over time (as Substance clearly did) you can get lease agreements with your name on them, proving you live out of home, and bank statements proving you have some sort of income separate to your parents. If you have neither of those things, in my opinion it is your fault for being so ill prepared for the "Real World" and relying on daddys check book to get you by.

 

I'm sorry for your situation Substance, but really I don't see how it is Centrelinks fault. If they just let people start up support with no proof of independence, everyone would get support from their parents AND the government.

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Having recently had a crisis in my house due to my parents threatening to withdraw financial support, I'd like to weigh in and remind you that university is the most financial vulnerable time in anyones life.

 

If you pull financial/life support half way through uni, they'll have to trash their uni degree, and consequently several years of work (three in my case, fortunately that didn't happen), in order to get a job that will pay well enough for them to survive.

You're kidding right?

 

If you're in Australia then that is just bullshit...

 

So much support from the government, get a part time job and HECS. Sure you might not be able to buy yourself a nice car etc, but you will definitely be able to get by and still have a decent time socially.

 

Hardly impossible, and there's flexibility to defer etc until you get shit sorted.

 

Agree with Sir_Substance, support from the government has gone downhill every year for a couple of decades now. You can't live on Youth Allowance, part time jobs are REALLY hard to find and you'd have to live shit-poor to get by.

 

I ended up doing my degree part-time and working full time because full-time jobs were the only thing I could get.

 

Sure, someone doing an arts degree that uses up 10 hours a week full time could find a full-time or near-full-time job, but you've got buckleys if you're doing science, engineering, law, medicine, nursing, pharmacy etc...

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Wrong again unco...

 

To be independant through employment you must have moved out of home [centrelink quote] because your parents’ home is in an area considered to be inner regional, outer regional, remote or very remote. [/centrelink quote]

 

The only other way is to be more than 22 yrs old. I was 19 (oh god. The bad joke there... )

 

Doesn't matter how much you earn, how long you've been employed etc. If your parents live close enough, you are dependant on them according to centrelink. ONLY if they live in an area which makes it unviable for you to live with them to continue your education can you then get youth allowance etc.

 

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Why didn't you have a job BEFORE being kicked out of home? In my humble opinion every teenager should start a weekend job when they reach 15-16.

You are clearly not reading my posts.

 

Thanks to Korthos and Access for their support. I'm doing my honors year of an engineering degree :)

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Ive got an interesting question on the flipside,

 

What if as a son or daughter your a crucial member of the house hold, in my case the oldest male also acting as a role model for my younger brother.

How should you feel about leaving home to live on campus or move onto different things when you are such a pivotal member of the house hold?

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Yeah, I had similar issues, trying to do full time tafe (5 days a week, close to 8 hours a day) and unable to find a part time job, the $400 I was getting off centrelink was just enough to survive on top of my girlfriends income, $700~/w is fuck all for 2 people though. For some of that I worked part time, but I didn't have a steady part time job, I just did a few hours/days a week at my old full time job to try to get by. That worked for 6 months, but then my study load went up further when I was doing a cert 4 and a degree at the same time, add to that $10+ a day travel into the city and the 80 minutes travel time there and back and I didn't have much spare time or money. Everyones situation is different, we all live in different states, towns etc. and not everywhere is the same. Not everyone is brought up the same either and this can obviously have a real effect on how someone will be in the future.

 

 

 

From memory, I had to be 22 and had to have earned 18k in the last 12 months or something like that to get classed as independent.

Edited by NukeJockey

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Wrong again unco...

 

To be independant through employment you must have moved out of home [centrelink quote] because your parents’ home is in an area considered to be inner regional, outer regional, remote or very remote. [/centrelink quote]

 

The only other way is to be more than 22 yrs old. I was 19 (oh god. The bad joke there... )

 

Doesn't matter how much you earn, how long you've been employed etc. If your parents live close enough, you are dependant on them according to centrelink. ONLY if they live in an area which makes it unviable for you to live with them to continue your education can you then get youth allowance etc.

 

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Must have changed it this or last year then, because that wasn't how it was only 2 years ago.

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Maybe.. I dunno. It was 15 yrs ago.

 

Must have earnt more than $10k - $12k (I'm pretty sure it was around that) and proven employment of more than 18 months AND have parents living out of area OR not being able to live with parents for a serious reason(s).

 

I had earnt between $14k and $16k with proof of employment over 2 years (Group certificates).

 

However, at this time Centrelink were 'encouraging people to live with their parents'.

 

My only other option was to turn 22. (Then I would have been eligible for Ausstudy)

 

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Well I'm not sure what it is now, but when I was studying, my situation was as follows:

 

Earnt the pay threshold (think it was ~$12K in the past 12 months)

Lived around 40KM from my parents house

Had my employment history for the past 2-3 years of part time / casual work as a teenager (you only needed 6 months when I applied).

Had my Medicare card

 

Job done, was only 18 and had independent status. You can have this status at 16 if you have your shit together and started working at 15.

 

I know not everyone works as a teenager on the weekends, but my point is they should if they want to have any hope of being seen as independent by the time they hit university.

 

Anyway, back onto the OP topic, I think you're doing a good job with your support level so far, but I would be hesitant to do much more for them. It's a fine line between support and doing everything for them. As I said in a previous post, my older sister relies quite heavily on my parents still, even though she is 2 years older, has finished uni and works full time. She is just so used to having everything handed to her.

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I was caught in a similar situation - parents income was over the threshold and I was just short of earning the required amount to be independent.

 

While I wouldn't have knocked it back at the time, you don't need government support to get by. 15-20 hours a week in any casual job is more than enough to cover basic living and uni expenses, at least for Brisbane. It definitely requires a shift in expectations, but you can get by reasonably comfortably.

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Its definitely different now AD.

 

This was the criteria that was needed a few years ago:

 

 

Working full time for 18 months OR earn 16-18k in the last 12 months, you could still be living at home (I was), that was the only criteria.

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To throw something into the mix, it's not easy to get Centrelink payments when one or both of your parents refuse to fill out the paperwork saying that you're independent.

 

I remember spending a chunk of my time at uni trying to balance classes and their required work, working a kitchen job at night that refused to put me on the books (makes it even harder to tell Centrelink you're independent if you can't report an income) and often had me stuck in the city after public transport finished. And being sick enough I couldn't attend roughly half of my classes. Did I mention being on campus most days from 8 or 9am 'til 5pm, and the 3+ hours of commuting to get to and from campus?

 

I've been working since before high school, FTR. I just can't juggle working and studying full time, and only working on holidays didn't really earn much money on junior rates.

 

Especially when you're talking about earning $12k in 6 months. During high school. Working weekends. Which I think equates to ~$460pw. GL.

 

Should people be prepared? Yes. Does shit happen where people reneg on their deals? Yes. Have the reqs for claiming 'indie' status with Centrelink changed a lot over the last decade? Yes.

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Basically what it boiled down to in that incident was me telling my father that if he pulled the rug from under me at that point in time, I'd never forgive him and we'd never speak again, and I meant that from the bottom of my heart. Nothing quite like smashing a mans dreams and ambitions to make him hate you.

 

I don't think your dad hates you.

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Basically what it boiled down to in that incident was me telling my father that if he pulled the rug from under me at that point in time, I'd never forgive him and we'd never speak again, and I meant that from the bottom of my heart. Nothing quite like smashing a mans dreams and ambitions to make him hate you.

So he isnt giving you a free ride anymore and now you would never forgive him and you will never speak to him again?

 

How decades of support are so easily forgotten...

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Basically what it boiled down to in that incident was me telling my father that if he pulled the rug from under me at that point in time, I'd never forgive him and we'd never speak again, and I meant that from the bottom of my heart. Nothing quite like smashing a mans dreams and ambitions to make him hate you.

 

I don't think your dad hates you.

 

I've spoken to him at length about it, he hates him.

 

 

'

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I have experience with exactly what you're talking about. I worked through the end of Highschool part time, and managed to earn the pissy $15K or whatever the threshold is to be considered independent before I was 17. When I left for Uni I was classed as indeendant by Centrelink, parents wages didn't come into the equation

So what you are saying is as per my previous post, you got at least three years of preparation time, so your scenario bears no relationship to mine?

 

I know that substance-bashing is a favored sport around here, but I'll tell you this my friend. On discovering I might be without a roof in 5 days, which is fully 0.004% of the amount of time you had to prepare for your situation, I explored every option. The only one available to me was to put my degree on hold and find a higher paying job. Two weeks before exams, that means fails on every current subject.

 

Special circumstances etc, you can defer exams and that sort of thing... All these things generally take is explaining your situation to the uni.

 

I finished my BENG Mechanical last year, so I do know what you're going through (and I worked a minimum of 20 hours a week while studying).

 

I just find it hard to believe that if your parents kicked you out of home, you'd lose your degree. It might slow your progress or make things a bit harder, but I have faith you'd find a way to get it done.

 

 

Getting off this tangent though, part of the fun that is uni life, is living cheaply, with a bunch of mates... Pantries stacked full of Mi-Goreng and tins of soup are a welcome sight... don't forget the cheap cask wine :P !

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Special circumstances etc, you can defer exams and that sort of thing... All these things generally take is explaining your situation to the uni.

 

I finished my BENG Mechanical last year, so I do know what you're going through (and I worked a minimum of 20 hours a week while studying).

Seroiusly? Where? I mean, not which company, but what kind of job? Like I said, I found a few casual jobs when studying engineering, but they were too erratic to easily live on. Eventually just had to bite the bullet and get full-time work.

 

I just find it hard to believe that if your parents kicked you out of home, you'd lose your degree. It might slow your progress or make things a bit harder, but I have faith you'd find a way to get it done.

"Lose" can be a continuum though, not necessarily a binary event. What I mean is, it took me 13 years to finish my engineering degree part-time (note that not all of that was because of work situation). In the end, I didn't lose the degree, but frankly it would have been more efficient to quit uni and just concentrate on my IT career.

 

Getting off this tangent though, part of the fun that is uni life, is living cheaply, with a bunch of mates... Pantries stacked full of Mi-Goreng and tins of soup are a welcome sight... don't forget the cheap cask wine :P !

That sounds like fun but when you're as anal-retentive as I am it's much easier to live alone :-p

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I know that substance-bashing is a favored sport around here,

I guess you could call it "substance abuse"

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I consider any type of support to be spoiling - Not all spoiling is bad and it varies in levels, but something for nothing is basically "spoiling" at some degree

 

Thing is, once you start providing it, it will be expected and counted on - The tricky bit is making sure the support you provide is appreciated and respected, and anything which comes out of your pocket or time towards someone else is at your expense and you are paying for it (And that it doesn't just come out of nowhere)

 

I do believe that support should be expected to be withdrawn at some time, but it should be discussed between the two parties, so both sides can understand the strains and pressure on each other

 

 

I feel sorry for both Sir_Substance and his dad - I'm not sure what reasons his dad had for trying to take the actions he did (I have no idea - The old man could be a douche, or just in real financial troubles himself)

 

 

Happens on many levels - My stepdad has had to go back to work because mum has been spoiling herself too much from their retirement fund :P

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I suppose that's the big thing which Khirareq nailed quite well.

 

All good to be 'cut off'. It's part of life.. But even places of employment and landlords have to give notice. I would have less sympathy for Substance if his dad said "You have 1 month" rather than "No money tomorrow". If he had 1 month, he could have asked his dad for that in writing, gone to Centrelink and within 2 or 3 weeks started getting payments. (Stat-dec saying he has been cut-off would satisfy Centrelink)

 

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I suppose that's the big thing which Khirareq nailed quite well.

 

All good to be 'cut off'. It's part of life.. But even places of employment and landlords have to give notice. I would have less sympathy for Substance if his dad said "You have 1 month" rather than "No money tomorrow". If he had 1 month, he could have asked his dad for that in writing, gone to Centrelink and within 2 or 3 weeks started getting payments. (Stat-dec saying he has been cut-off would satisfy Centrelink)

 

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It's got me curious as to why S/S's dad was going to cut him off so quickly after presumably happily supporting him for years

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well it's clear from many of the replies in this thread that most Atomicans shouldn't be permitted to breed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

;P

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