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Athiril

Conservative Christians at it again

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''It's a really important issue because of what we know from the research of the impact of playing extremely violent video games on young children's development in terms of their attitudes and values,'' he said."

 

 

Yes, because 18+ is clearly aimed at "young children". What a fucking retard.

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Note: the opinion in the article does not represent the views of all Christians.

 

I believe the R18 rating is fantastic and is great from a gamer perspective and a family or Christian perspective. I see too many young kids playing games with a lot of gore, such as killing floor, for example my nephew/cousins son, and when i asked the mum if she thought a game like that was alright for her 12 year old son(probably not the best thing to do on my part), her reply was "If its ma15+ I won't say no." I think she was clueless to the lack of an R18+ rating. this might be an eye opener for quite a few people.

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isn't this just a part of of what a democracy is about?

 

Or is democracy only a good thing when people agree with you :)

Not when a small non-representative portion of the community has the ear of the Government it's not.

Bloody lobbyists seem to have too much sway over our politicians these days.

 

So minorities shouldn't lobby? It's only a problem if the majority remain silent. I don't blame the minorities, I blame those who do nothing but complain.

 

Politicians are influenced by numbers of votes. I don't know the actual numbers (does anybody?), but I would suggest there is a very large number of people who support the +18 classification. Many will even be Christian! They need to lobby in the same way the minority Christian conservatives are.

 

See the problem with this thinking is that some lobby groups are extremely vocal whilst not representing the majority.

 

The vast majority may support a certain stance, but may be too tied up with her own shit to actually lobby for it. This leaves the door open for those who don't have a life to control policy. Or conversely those who have a vested interest in a particular policy are able to yell loudest.

 

The loudest voice neither represents the best or most popular policy. IMHO, lobby groups should be ignored and popular opinion should be canvassed.

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isn't this just a part of of what a democracy is about?

 

Or is democracy only a good thing when people agree with you :)

Not when a small non-representative portion of the community has the ear of the Government it's not.

Bloody lobbyists seem to have too much sway over our politicians these days.

 

So minorities shouldn't lobby? It's only a problem if the majority remain silent. I don't blame the minorities, I blame those who do nothing but complain.

 

Politicians are influenced by numbers of votes. I don't know the actual numbers (does anybody?), but I would suggest there is a very large number of people who support the +18 classification. Many will even be Christian! They need to lobby in the same way the minority Christian conservatives are.

 

See the problem with this thinking is that some lobby groups are extremely vocal whilst not representing the majority.

 

 

Which is why I said, I blame those who do nothing but complain.

The vast majority may support a certain stance, but may be too tied up with her own shit to actually lobby for it. This leaves the door open for those who don't have a life to control policy. Or conversely those who have a vested interest in a particular policy are able to yell loudest.

 

The loudest voice neither represents the best or most popular policy. IMHO, lobby groups should be ignored and popular opinion should be canvassed.

I think this ignores the reality of the situation. There will always be minorities and there will always be lobby groups. Minorities and lobby groups should not be ignored, but their opinions should be taken into consideration in the context of the bigger picture.

Edited by Mac Dude

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I think this ignores the reality of the situation. There will always be minorities and there will always be lobby groups. Minorities and lobby groups should not be ignored, but their opinions should be taken into consideration in the context of the bigger picture.

Yup.

 

Majority rule is actually a bad thing as it'll invariably discriminate against minorities. A vocal minority is important to democracy. Doesn't mean when they've vocal they'll always be heard, but they should be aloud and encouraged to be vocal.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I think this ignores the reality of the situation. There will always be minorities and there will always be lobby groups. Minorities and lobby groups should not be ignored, but their opinions should be taken into consideration in the context of the bigger picture.

Yup.

 

Majority rule is actually a bad thing as it'll invariably discriminate against minorities. A vocal minority is important to democracy. Doesn't mean when they've vocal they'll always be heard, but they should be aloud and encouraged to be vocal.

 

+1 to both of you.

 

And as frustrating as some minority views can be, they create important discussion in society of matters that mightn't otherwise get due consideration. Also, just because they're a minority doesn't mean that they're not right or that their opinion doesn't matter.

 

Gay marriage is one that pops into my head immediately. It's a minority issue, but one that deserves review.

 

I disagree with the opinion against an R18+rating, but I think that it still creates valuable discussion and, hopefully, will help deliver a more robust system than we've had in the past.

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isn't this just a part of of what a democracy is about?

 

Or is democracy only a good thing when people agree with you :)

Democracy only works when it's democracy, we've deviated somewhat from it's original intentions, it's more massed uninformed persuasion of the ill informed.

 

The average Australian puts more thought into their Melbourne Cup choice than any election.

 

Also from council to national level there is no real accessible avenue for public inspection or review, we "vote" representatives for offices where most oft they know dick all about, for a party who's own self interest is paramount...

 

That's not democracy, that's not what those ancient dudes and those early Poms had in mind.

 

It's bullshit, and the only reason it works is because of greed and the solid foundation of Western government that was laid so long ago.

 

These guys are pack of clowns, and so are the australian people in general for holding no interest in what makes their lives tick.

 

So in actuality and contradiction, maybe the fact that we have a pack of clowns in office is because we as Australians are a pack of gullible yobs.

 

 

JFK put it well "ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country."

 

If we the people put in no effort we get nothing back...

 

We deserve what we get.

Edited by Chuck Norris(good actor

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They even use unlicensed NES cartridges that bypass the lockout codes so they don't need approval or licensing from Nintendo to publish on their system.

That sounds a hell of a lot like something conservative christian groups would be worried about other people doing, what with their violence and heathenry.

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I feel the urge to throat punch that guy.

 

Wait, you want to throat punch a guy who is saying that children's games shouldn't be so violent, yet you were willing to give a kiddy rapist the benefit of the doubt?

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has anyone seen the youtube channel "angry video game nerd" ? he reviews some pretty funny bible video games, id get the link but im at work and youtube is banned :/

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I dunno... When I am king, religious spastics are the first against the wall.

I love comments like this being kept for prosperity on the internet.

 

May karma ensure any time you spend in charge of people, especially those with a religious disposition and/or Cerebral Palsy, is kept to an absolute minimum.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I feel the urge to throat punch that guy.

Wait, you want to throat punch a guy who is saying that children's games shouldn't be so violent, yet you were willing to give a kiddy rapist the benefit of the doubt?

 

I know.

 

Innocent until proven guilty is an incredibly difficult concept to grasp.

I dunno... When I am king, religious spastics are the first against the wall.

I love comments like this being kept for prosperity on the internet.

 

May karma ensure any time you spend in charge of people, especially those with a religious disposition and/or Cerebral Palsy, is kept to an absolute minimum.

 

+1

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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isn't this just a part of of what a democracy is about?

 

Or is democracy only a good thing when people agree with you :)

The right to hold individual values you mean, is not the right to force your individual values on everybody else.

 

I feel the urge to throat punch that guy.

 

Wait, you want to throat punch a guy who is saying that children's games shouldn't be so violent, yet you were willing to give a kiddy rapist the benefit of the doubt?

 

Not a 'kiddy rapist' until proven. So yes, willing to give that chance, accusations ruin lives, let alone the guilty till proven innocent method where "righteous murder" is approved and applauded, then called an accident and 'honest mistake' if the guy would be proven innocent after death, and the perpetrator viewed as not posing a risk to society even though he lost the plot and killed someone out of anger, bypassing the now dead's right to due process.

 

It was simply his recount of someone else's actions by another. Which is highly questionable.

 

 

People jumping on the "he's a rapist" with no evidence bandwagon are judging the guy out of their negative emotion, they have a gestalt auto completion of what happened. Traumatised toddler girl, devoted father, and dead body. Dead guy must have done something really bad to her, which traumatised the girl, the father killed him out of rage. Therefore dead guy = bad guy, and just served. That is their psychological completion, and there are numerous problems with it. There are other ways to automatically complete the puzzle without evidence too - Father which young daughter loved dearly violenty bashed someone to death in front of her, is traumatised because of it, and any wonder. Father must have had some altercation or disagreement with the guy, or perhaps caught him doing something bad. Father is the bad guy. Etc etc. Father could have also made up stuff to protect himself, since there is no one to say otherwise.

 

Like if someone saw a knife on the ground or a table, picked it up. Nearby out of immediate sight that second is a bloody dead body. That is all a witness sees, person with knife in hand, dead body. Interprets as murder by the person holding the knife. Maybe the witness recognises the dead person as the carer of the person with the knife, who physically abused them a lot, see's it as self-defence, where the person grabbed a knife out of the kitchen trying to escape being beaten. Perhaps it was setup like this for someone to find and pick up the knife, perhaps the witness did the stabbing. Who knows. The first two assumptions are wrong as the person walked in only found the knife, even though the witness may believe they saw it happen, after seeing the person holding the knife, they complete the picture and may be unable to tell it from a memory.

 

 

In this case, we have someone saying directly what they are supporting and trying to do (IE: The comparison here is someone coming out and essentially admitting their own 'guilt'). I'm also guessing you missed the irony of that statement against someone against violent games.

Edited by Athiril

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isn't this just a part of of what a democracy is about?

 

Or is democracy only a good thing when people agree with you :)

The right to hold individual values you mean, is not the right to force your individual values on everybody else.

 

Lobbying is not forcing. What do you suggest people do to put forward their point of view to politicians? Should gay people be silent about the issue of gay marriage because they a minority? Should indigenous people just shut the fuck up about racial vilification?

 

Aside from starting ones own party and running for election how would you suggest people put their point of view in a democracy?

 

I'm trying to understand what you expect people to do if they want change. It appears that it's ok to lobby for a +18 classification but it's not ok to lobby against it.

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

*stuff*

I totally agree with you in the context of the original conversation, however, if you go back to that thread, new information has come to light which has confirmed the father's version of events.

 

I'm sure that some people see that as a vindication of their original stance before that evidence came to light. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with them.

 

:-)

 

I agree with Mac Dude. I believe that they have the right to lobby for what they believe in, even if I don't agree with it (I don't).

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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I'm trying to understand Athiril.

I'm trying to understand what makes you think you will ever be able to understand a ranting lunatic.

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When Jesus was on the Australian Classification board he let all sorts of crazy violent stories through and even had them wrote in a book for all ages to read.

 

Many people around the world are scared to death of the stories he and his friends tell, hopefully Jim Wallace in all his wisdom can get the bible moved into the R18 category as well

Are there Christian video games?

Has anyone created a videogame accurately depicting Bible stories? It was widely accepted that "The Passion" was a more-or-less accurate depiction of crucifixion, and watching it kind of reset my minds eye when reading most of the stories in the Bible.

 

Plenty of sex and violence in that book. Some game adaptations could be fun!

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

Calling Athiril a lunatic is a bit strong.

Edited by xyzzy frobozz

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isn't this just a part of of what a democracy is about?

 

Or is democracy only a good thing when people agree with you :)

The right to hold individual values you mean, is not the right to force your individual values on everybody else.

 

Lobbying is not forcing. What do you suggest people do to put forward their point of view to politicians? Should gay people be silent about the issue of gay marriage because they a minority? Should indigenous people just shut the fuck up about racial vilification?

 

Aside from starting ones own party and running for election how would you suggest people put their point of view in a democracy?

 

I'm trying to understand what you expect people to do if they want change. It appears that it's ok to lobby for a +18 classification but it's not ok to lobby against it.

 

I'm of the opinion that other people should be able to think whatever they want, and say whatever is on their mind, without repercussions.

It's only when they then try to force those beliefs on others that they cross the line, and this can't be tolerated.

 

I can see what your saying Mac Dude, lobbying isn't technically forcing, but they should be smart enough to understand their view is a minority, and there is absolutely no just reason why ALL of Australia should conform to their demands, that would be outrageous, they should simply STFU and not buy games if they don't want to, let the rest of us do as we wish.

 

Its not really the same as gay marriage, where they are lobbying for something that only effects gay people, and 2 of them at a time, at the most. It is not something that will impact me in any way, such as not being able to play R18+ games that I did lobby FOR.

 

If these conservative types don't want these games for THEIR kids, then it's simple, don't fucking buy them. Problem solved.

Keep your dirty hands off my brand spankin new R18+ games, hopefully more debaucherous than ever before.

Edited by p0is0n

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Guest xyzzy frobozz

I'm of the opinion that other people should be able to think whatever they want, and say whatever is on their mind, without repercussions.

It's only when they then try to force those beliefs on others that they cross the line, and this can't be tolerated.

 

I can see what your saying Mac Dude, lobbying isn't technically forcing, but they should be smart enough to understand their view is a minority, and there is absolutely no just reason why ALL of Australia should conform to their demands, that would be outrageous, they should simply STFU and not buy games if they don't want to, let the rest of us do as we wish.

 

Its not really the same as gay marriage, where they are lobbying for something that only effects gay people, and 2 of them at a time, at the most. It is not something that will impact me in any way, such as not being able to play R18+ games that I did lobby FOR.

 

If these conservative types don't want these games for THEIR kids, then it's simple, don't fucking buy them. Problem solved.

Keep your dirty hands off my brand spankin new R18+ games, hopefully more debaucherous than ever before.

I see where you're coming from, but your logic is kind of circular.

 

You lobbied for R18+ games and that's cool. But lobbying against it isn't? Effectively, it could be argued that you forced R18+ games on the rest of society by lobbying. They probably think that you crossed the line!

 

They would put forward that both issues (gay marriage and R18+) do affect them, due to the societal effects that they see as negative.

 

They would argue that you're making decisions for yourself that affect all of society, therefore, you're not really in a position to make that decision on behalf of society. Their logic would be as circular as yours!

 

Democracy is all about doing what is right for the majority, so long as that doesn't have too deleterious an effect on a minority. Government would seem to be on our side on this one, hence the passage of the law, unobstructed, through parliament. What the Conservative lobby is arguing is that it will have a negative effect on society, and they're lobbying on that basis. I disagree with them, but I defend their right to have their views heard, and I don't think that they're doing anything untoward in the process.

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I see where you're coming from, but your logic is kind of circular.

 

You lobbied for R18+ games and that's cool. But lobbying against it isn't? Effectively, it could be argued that you forced R18+ games on the rest of society by lobbying. They probably think that you crossed the line!

 

They would put forward that both issues (gay marriage and R18+) do affect them, due to the societal effects that they see as negative.

 

They would argue that you're making decisions for yourself that affect all of society, therefore, you're not really in a position to make that decision on behalf of society. Their logic would be as circular as yours!

 

Democracy is all about doing what is right for the majority, so long as that doesn't have too deleterious an effect on a minority. Government would seem to be on our side on this one, hence the passage of the law, unobstructed, through parliament. What the Conservative lobby is arguing is that it will have a negative effect on society, and they're lobbying on that basis. I disagree with them, but I defend their right to have their views heard, and I don't think that they're doing anything untoward in the process.

Good point mate, I guess I never, for a moment, considered that lobbying to play games deemed appropriate for adults only would ever negatively impact anyone. I suppose if your of the mind that no fun should ever be had, it would negatively impact you, although you'd be in a minority.

 

I try to avoid most political debate as I can rarely get my head around it, might have learned something today though.

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